ER18 MTM vs. Statement Sound Off

[Swerd]

mattsk8 we are impatiently waiting for your post about what happened at Meniscus Audio over the weekend .

While eating lunch, I read the posts about the Meet at Meniscus on another forum Meniscus Audio sound off, Aug 25th - Page 2. Matt had this to say about these 2 DIY speakers:

As far as the difference between the ER18s and the Statements, In my own words here goes...

I think if you have a large enough room to place them correctly and you listen to a lot of rock n roll or heavy metal, build the Statements. If you have a smaller room and listen to more jazz or classical style music, build the ER18s. I heard a lot of guys say for longer listening sessions, the ER18s were easier to listen to. The room we did the comparison was less than ideal for the Statements. It was about 14' wide, and about 20' deep. I was told ideally you want at least 12' between the Statements, and 18" from the wall to side of the cabinets, which would be at least a 15' wide room. The listening chairs were set up about 10' (I think?) from the front of the speakers to the front row of chairs.

The Statements have better bass, you can feel it more. That's not to say at all that the ER18s don't have enough bass, but the Statements just have more. IMO, the ER18s play a more realistic reproduction of the music; I felt like I was listening to the music the way the artist intended it to be listened to. The ER18s are also definitely more efficient; the ER18s were almost as loud at 28 as the Statements were at 22 on the volume.

So far it sounds like I'm totally pro ER18s, but here's where the Statements really shine IMO- If you're like me, and you're more of a "check this out" kind of guy and tend to jam the volume as loud as you can get it w/out distortion when you show your buddies your new creation, the Statements will be louder and a bit more showy to the untrained ear.

I built the Statements for my dad, and built the ER18s for myself. I can't handle the girth of the Statements, to me they're just too big. The ER18s are large, but the Statements are huge! So the question is, aside from the sizes of them, am I happy I built the ER18s? To answer that, I am completely happy w/ them. While I do tend to lean more towards rock, I'm all over w/ the music I listen to so I think the ER18s are a good fit. I might find a sub to build to compliment them, but I'm not sure yet; I need to spend more time listening to them w/out a sub first (I haven't even heard them yet in the room they're going in, which tends to make speakers play a lot boomier). I would like to someday hear the ER18s next to the mini Statements. I think that may be a fairer comparison for both size and price (after all the full size Statements are bigger and about $200 more to build). The only downside is that the floor where I'm putting the ER18s is tile, and that brightens the highs up a lot. I'm going rug shopping soon!

I still haven't heard the Statements, but Matts words make it much more clear how they compare to the ER18s. Well said!

I think Matt deserves a "Hats Off" salute. One of the reasons why I wanted to write up the design of the ER18 MTM DIY speakers is that I wanted to see more DIY speaker building threads here at Audioholics. For a guy new to speaker building, in about 2 years Matt has built the Dayton TriTrix, the Statments, and the ER18 MTM. He (along with skyline_123 and some others here) have helped make the DIY page at Audioholics really come alive. And now after getting the ball rolling for the Meniscus Sound Off, you've taken it a step further! Thanks Matt for all you've done!

If after reading all this, you can't make up your mind whether you want the Statements or the ER18s, do what Matt did – build them both .

 

[jinjuku]

Man, after the Statements I am done with any big, full range, speaker projects for awhile.

I would love to build the ER18's but have no desire since I am more than happy with my Statements.

 

[Swerd]

Man, after the Statements I am done with any big, full range, speaker projects for awhile.

I would love to build the ER18's but have no desire since I am more than happy with my Statements.

Like so many guys with the DIY itch, you want a modest supply of buyers who would pay for all the parts and let you build them.

As a guy happy with your DIY build, you would not be a nominee for the DIY division of The AcuDefTechGuy Awards .

 

[jinjuku]

The wife has me building oak and lacquered shadow boxes. After that it is a puppet theater for the kid...

 

[mattsk8]

I owe you guys more than this ! Really sorry, been sooo busy. Right after the show Saturday I had (I use the term had loosely ) to go out w/ my 13 year old son to the Grand Rapids Metro Cruise. Fun time for both of us! We do it every year so couldn't miss that. Then Sunday was church, then boat fun. Then today I was in Chicago for business. I have a teeny window here cuz I just got back to work so I'm doing this on my work computer. Really want to get home, but I'll try to type up something for you guys tomorrow after giving it all more thought!

Thanks to you guys here mostly for giving me the DIY itch. W/out your guidance I would've never had the kahoonies to even think to get into it!!

 

[skyline_123]

Thanks Matt for all your work! I know how long it took me to build the ER18's, I can imagine how long it took to build the Statements, in no way do I envy you . Although you may not have built the two speakers for the sole purpose of answering that burning question in many peoples mind, which speaker sounds better, you've most certainly saved a lot of people a bunch of money by doing so, and to that, I give a hat tip to your contribution. You've got two wonderful sets of speakers that will be hard to top for a very long time. I think we're all looking forward to your review once you've set them up at their final destination.

My living room is rather long and narrow (23' x 14' or something odd like that) that is very open to the kitchen, all of which have hard floors with one decent sized rug and two couches in the living room. I've gotten used to how they sound in that room but I remember when the master bedroom still had carpet and I set them up in there(with queen sized bed and drapes on either side of the bed) the level of additional detail I was able to hear was astounding. It was like listening to a different speaker. They would completely disappear to where when I closed my eyes, I literally could not pinpoint their location. I'm not sure if anyone else would admit it, but let me be the first, at one point in my listening career, I sat in an audio video demo room and when it started, the lights went out and we sat in silence for about 10 seconds. All of a sudden, before any video played, the sound of a fire fighter sliding down the pole (not the stripper, a REAL fireman) rang from the surround sound, I actually turned around in my seat so I could feast my eyes on the kind of idiot that takes a job working in an audio demo room sliding down poles and probably chapping his balls all day. Turns out, I was the idiot who was fooled by the amazing level of detail.

That's the sort of experience I had with the ER18's, to the point one time where I actually stopped my demo, walked up to the center channel, and attempted to unplug it because I was playing music through the L,C,R, only to realize that the CC was already unhooked.

My main point is that we look forward to your review and I hope you can treat the room well because I think you will be rewarded.

 

[mattsk8]

Great comments Skyline! You nailed it w/ your description of the difference between listening in the carpeted room, vs listening in your living room w/ hardwood floors. I think hardwood, concrete, or tile floors tend to make the highs a teeny bit harsh in the ER18s. Since mine are going in a room w/ tile floors, like I said earlier, I'll be looking for some way to implement a huge area rug. It's going to be tough because I'll have to move my pool table to do it, but it'll be well worth it!

It's so difficult to describe the differences between the ER18s and the Statements w/out making one sound worse than the other. The biggest problem w/ doing a 'sound off' between those 2 speakers is the fact that they both have their own outstanding qualities. IMO, the ER18s are more detailed in the mids and highs; which would lead someone to believe the Statements lack detail, which they don't. And the Statements have more bass; which would lead someone to believe the ER18s don't have good bass... Now, this is where I'm a little undecided. I have to spend more time listening. For my personal preference, I think the ER18s could use a bit more 'thump'; but I've only had the one session at the demo, and that opinion might change completely once I get them in their intended room. One guy described the bass output of the ER18s as 'a bit schmeary'. Sounds harsh, but it's a good way to describe it if you use the term in the most mild sense.

After I listen to them, I walk away and in the back of my mind I want to say I like the Statements better. But, then I listen again to the ER18s and I'm so captivated by their definition that I can't. I think a huge part of that is my personal listening style, which is also why there's no perfect speaker; it's subjective.

Here's Paul K's comments, "I tend to listen with an average SPL in my sweet spot of ~80 dB, pretty much like you, at least for orchestral music. On smaller ensembles, like string quartets or jazz trios, I might turn it up more". (Just FYI, Paul wasn't speaking to me when he said "pretty much like you".) This is spelled out in the ER18s. For example, don't play Metallica's Dyers Eve at 3/4 volume and expect to be wowed; you won't. As a matter of fact they do it terribly, even to the point of falling apart. The Statements on the other hand were made for something like that. But, if you listen to the style of music that Paul is referring to w/ a more layed back approach, the ER18s are a better way to go.

 

[mattsk8]

Here is a review from a gentleman that attended the demo and would rather remain anonymous. Just thought I'd share. The first pair he speaks of are the Statements, and the ones he's referring to as cherry are the ER18s. This came as an email to Mark Sayers, owner of Meniscus Audio that he forwarded to me.

I was lucky enough to listen in on the demo of the WMTMW style tower (over 4' tall and appeared unfinished) and the (MW)T(MW) with a "cherry?" finish, both featuring the ribbon style tweeter.


For me beauty is in the eye and ear of the beholder and everyone will have a different opinion based on their personal perception. We are all built differently and essentially have different crossovers built into our brains. I have met people where the amplifier is the contour they are looking for, others the crossover, others the cabinet shape and material. These can all be important things, but the most important is the listeners personal perception.


I must say the staging and presentation of both were quite remarkable.



I had a limited listen to the larger of the two, but what I did notice was clarity of detail, slightly sharp mids, but a solid low end. I am interested in seeing the finished product.


The smaller of the two (MW)T(MW) which I will just call the Cherry did not have the low end I was expecting based on the cabinet size. However, the detail, clarity and balance was amazing. So much so that I haven't heard such smooth and tight detail since I heard a pair of B&W802s back in 2001. Things have changed and so have my reference points as good quality speakers and dealerships of such don't seem to exist in the Grand Rapids area anymore. This was a wonderfully refreshing listen. Tell him well done.


I was impressed with the cabinet structures and quality of finishing. Your speakers do not just sound good, they look the part as well. Well done!