Do Amps really have signatures?

[moves]

What about the Pass though that was reviewed by Gene? He said he noticed a difference.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Amplifer sections within an AVR are a compromise @ best, especially the lower priced ones < $1000 (SRP)...
Everything is packed into one chassis, and driven by intense price competition...
A quality, branded multi-channel component amplifier will annihiliate the majority of amplifiers sections within an AVR.....

Just my $0.02..

That would mean the AVR was driven beyond its design limits, plain and simple.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You are absolutely right!! The differences are very small and subtle. And you are 100% right! The big differences will be in the speakers not in the amps (for the most part). And that is all with in reason.

Gordon

Wait.....Now wait a minute. I think we can agree on this understanding.

Okay, I can go along with that. The differences in amps are very small and subtle. And the differences in speakers are a lot more significant compared to the differences in amps.

I think we have a deal here. We can shake on this.

Amps can have a sound signature, but the signature (differences in amp sound) is very small and subtle. In contrast, the signature of speakers is a lot more significant.

 

[mtrycrafts]

My Yammy gave me an autograph yesterday..eligible of course. I'm keeping the signature just in case it gets famous or something.

How would 3 yammy sigs and one onky sig measure up?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What about the Pass though that was reviewed by Gene? He said he noticed a difference.

The difference may be a little easier to discern for someone with trained hearing. But I think for the rest of us, the difference is very small and subtle on the Pass amp.

 

[M Code]

That would mean the AVR was driven beyond its design limits, plain and simple.

Not necessarily...
Most likely means that are major mismatches between the AVR and loudspeaker system...
For example, the loudspeaker could be full-range and low impedance/low sensitivity, and the amplifier section of the AVR is incapable of driving it adequately due to limited current capability..

Price point AVRs whose SRP is <$999 have had their power supplies, output devices, heat sinks all downsized due to extreme cost pressures..
Plus the severe inflationary pressure due to the eroded value of the US$, which has decreased over 30% vs. the Far East currencies in just the last year...

Just my $0.02..

 

[GranteedEV]

I have come across this one so many times. People talking about amp signatures. Do Amps really have signatures?

Amps are illiterate unfortunately. They can't read or write

If I remember it right, today most amps from quality manufacturers have ruler flat frequency response. This would mean amps have no signature.

To an extent, but there's still the distortion signature which may be slightly audible on ultra high end speakers. The most offensive of distortion is zero-crossing distortion, which rises in level as sound pressure level decreases, and is non-harmonic in nature.

Can amps have a sound of their own with flat frequency response? Sure they can. But don't concern yourself with it as it's 100x less relevant than the speaker and the room.

 

[Gordonj]

Wait.....Now wait a minute. I think we can agree on this understanding.

Okay, I can go along with that. The differences in amps are very small and subtle. And the differences in speakers are a lot more significant compared to the differences in amps.

I think we have a deal here. We can shake on this.

Amps can have a sound signature, but the signature (differences in amp sound) is very small and subtle. In contrast, the signature of speakers is a lot more significant.

I'm right there 100% !!

Now what other problems of the world can we solve!

Gordon

 

[PENG]

I'm right there 100% !!

Now what other problems of the world can we solve!

Gordon

100% here too!! Now what are you going to be drinking and how many?

 

[KEW]

Not necessarily...
Most likely means that are major mismatches between the AVR and loudspeaker system...
For example, the loudspeaker could be full-range and low impedance/low sensitivity, and the amplifier section of the AVR is incapable of driving it adequately due to limited current capability..

Price point AVRs whose SRP is <$999 have had their power supplies, output devices, heat sinks all downsized due to extreme cost pressures..
Plus the severe inflationary pressure due to the eroded value of the US$, which has decreased over 30% vs. the Far East currencies in just the last year...

Just my $0.02..

Re: bolded text above.
I would submit that that is exactly a case of the AVR being driven beyond it's design limits.
Clearly those speakers are demanding more than the AVR can deliver and Amp design is a well-understood, mature science. It is safe to say that the AVR was not designed to drive those speakers!
Current capability is part of the design.

 

[3db]

How would 3 yammy sigs and one onky sig measure up?

I'd put all them signatures in a glass frame and display it prominately and proudly.

 

[3db]

Not necessarily...
Most likely means that are major mismatches between the AVR and loudspeaker system...
For example, the loudspeaker could be full-range and low impedance/low sensitivity, and the amplifier section of the AVR is incapable of driving it adequately due to limited current capability..

You just provides a perfect example of driving a receiver beyond its design limits by asking it to drive a load which its not capable off.

 

[M Code]

Re: bolded text above.
I would submit that that is exactly a case of the AVR being driven beyond it's design limits.
Clearly those speakers are demanding more than the AVR can deliver and Amp design is a well-understood, mature science. It is safe to say that the AVR was not designed to drive those speakers!
Current capability is part of the design.

The key point is having the knowledge and experience to properly match up various audio components and their impact on the total system sonic's performance.

No different than installing cheap recap tires on your Z06 Corvette, the Z06 can never handle and perform up to its potential...


Just my $0.02..