Crappy sounding amp!

[KEW]

I just remembered I have experience with an amp sounding different.
I bought a Technics SU-V5 Integrated Amp new in '82 for a second room stereo. It is the only amp that I feel certain to sound different from other (good) amps.
I don't remember what I paid, but it wasn't cheap.
I bought it based on the specifications and used it with a pair of EPI Epicure 100 speakers. It never sounded great but it wasn't until I swapped amps that I realized the EPI's were better speakers than I thought and the Technics amp was a POS!
Does anyone see anything in the specs or have any ideas on why this amp couldn't do the job?
Technics /Technics SU-V5

I suppose the amp may have been defective in some way, but I still have it and it was working last time I hooked it up (maybe 2 years ago).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think It's the tone controls. It may be defectively engaged all the time - no way to defeat the tones.

I had a $1500 Pioneer Elite pre-pro that sounded worse than my $400 Harman Kardon AVR - as if the Tone was always engaged instead of being in Direct Mode.

One reason I always had a hate for Tones and EQ.

Just give it to me pure and direct.

 

[KEW]

I think It's the tone controls. It may be defectively engaged all the time - no way to defeat the tones.

I had a $1500 Pioneer Elite pre-pro that sounded worse than my $400 Harman Kardon AVR - as if the Tone was always engaged instead of being in Direct Mode.

One reason I always had a hate for Tones and EQ.

Just give it to me pure and direct.

You may be right. I'm pretty sure it had tone defeat, but if it didn't work right that would explain it.

The loudness compensation was horrible - far worse than the standard of the day. It was like it put a big hump centered at 250Hz and rolled off at 200Hz!

I had another amp which had a -20dB mute switch. I found the Loudness sounded good on it with the mute engaged and the volume turned pretty high (which resulted in a suppressed loudness contour). This was when I was in college and I was seldom in a place to listen anywhere close to reference levels. Well, lots of other students did, but the dorms were prefab "tin cans" and I liked to listen to music more than noise.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I just remembered I have experience with an amp sounding different.
I bought a Technics SU-V5 Integrated Amp new in '82 for a second room stereo. It is the only amp that I feel certain to sound different from other (good) amps.
I don't remember what I paid, but it wasn't cheap.
I bought it based on the specifications and used it with a pair of EPI Epicure 100 speakers. It never sounded great but it wasn't until I swapped amps that I realized the EPI's were better speakers than I thought and the Technics amp was a POS!
Does anyone see anything in the specs or have any ideas on why this amp couldn't do the job?
Technics /Technics SU-V5

I suppose the amp may have been defective in some way, but I still have it and it was working last time I hooked it up (maybe 2 years ago).

When did you make the comparisons? Recently or in the past and relying on your distant memory? If the latter, forget everything you asked.

 

[njedpx3]

Probably the amp was clipping.

When did you make the comparisons? Recently or in the past and relying on your distant memory? If the latter, forget everything you asked.

The only time an amp will sound bad is if it is so severely underpowered for the speaker load that you are clipping all-the-time. If you speakers were inefficient, then this could have been the cause. If the replacement amp had substantially more power then that is the answer. Question: Did it sound crappy at low volume as weel as high volume. If low volume was okay, then again you are trying to overdrive the amp beyond its capabilites. Remember that power is logrithmic; to increase 3dB you need to double your power.

However speaking of old amps, I still have a Marantz 1060 which is more than 40 years old ( bought new in 1971) and still plays awesome. The Marantz designation 1060 was a total of 60 watts rms or 30 watts per channel. I am driving Cambrodge Audio S-30 speakers.

Good luck Forest Man!

P.S.- Most bad sound can be traced to the speakers or the HMI

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The lesson here is don't buy amps with Tone controls! If the Tones circuit is defective, you are screwed.

 

[slipperybidness]

The lesson here is don't buy amps with Tone controls! If the Tones circuit is defective, you are screwed.

Do you use room correction on any of your setups? Just curious.

I find it odd that I see many people that down tone controls, but then do the "same" thing with the room EQ programs. Seems like a double-std to me.

 

[3db]

I still have this unit running as a two channel setup upstairs in the family room and it always sounded good.

This is what teh back looks like. I used the 940 model but the backs of teh 930/940 are identical

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you use room correction on any of your setups? Just curious.

I find it odd that I see many people that down tone controls, but then do the "same" thing with the room EQ programs. Seems like a double-std to me.

Nope. No room corrections for me. The only RC I might use would be the ultra High-end RC from Harman International that is probably used with their $60,000 JBL Everest speakers. But it would cost more than I want to spend.

Imagine what would happen if the Tones in the amp becomes defective and turns the treble and bass all the way down and you could not change it or defeat it? Scratch that....you would just buy a new amp.

 

[jonnythan]

Do you use room correction on any of your setups? Just curious.

I find it odd that I see many people that down tone controls, but then do the "same" thing with the room EQ programs. Seems like a double-std to me.

Tone controls and room correction are not remotely the same thing.

 

[slipperybidness]

Tone controls and room correction are not remotely the same thing.

Sure they are. It's just that the bandwidth on the tone controls are much wider than the narrow bands on EQ. In practice, if you use tone controls you are EQ the sound spectrum.

The only thing is that the RC can add time-delays etc, but if you take that out of the equation then RC is just souped-up EQ.

 

[slipperybidness]

Nope. No room corrections for me. The only RC I might use would be the ultra High-end RC from Harman International that is probably used with their $60,000 JBL Everest speakers. But it would cost more than I want to spend.

Imagine what would happen if the Tones in the amp becomes defective and turns the treble and bass all the way down and you could not change it or defeat it? Scratch that....you would just buy a new amp.

I have the USP-1, which I chose b/c it doesn't have tone controls.

However, I have the pre-amp outs running through an EQ that has bypass option. Really the best of both worlds and adds much flexibility. In general, I bypass the EQ, but on some tracks (esp MP3s), I find that I can finetune the sound to my taste with the EQ.

 

[jonnythan]

I don't know about other manufacturer's EQ software, but Audyssey does more than just apply a parametric EQ.

Besides, comparing quality room correct software to a manual "bass" and "treble" knob is like comparing an F-22 to a bicycle. Sure, they're both vehicles, but...

 

[KEW]

3db,
This is not a condemnation of old Technics gear, they definitely made some fine gear! I think the issue is unique to this specific amp. ADTG's notion on the tone controls being faulty seems the most reasonable explanation.

When did you make the comparisons? Recently or in the past and relying on your distant memory? If the latter, forget everything you asked.

I'm not sure I follow you reasoning. I first came to my conclusion in the distant past when I swapped amps. I can't see the reason to invalidate that.
However, I pulled it out and re-verified my assessment a couple of years ago.

 

[slipperybidness]

I don't know about other manufacturer's EQ software, but Audyssey does more than just apply a parametric EQ.

Besides, comparing quality room correct software to a manual "bass" and "treble" knob is like comparing an F-22 to a bicycle. Sure, they're both vehicles, but...

My point is the general mentality seems to be: Tone Controls bad, RC good. Seems like a double-std to me.

For the record, I use RC for movies but pure direct for music in my living room setup.

The funny thing is, how many tone controls and equalizers does the signal go through during the mastering process? It would seem that adding 1 more to the signal chain wouldn't be an issue (assuming they are working correctly).

 

[jonnythan]

My point is the general mentality seems to be: Tone Controls bad, RC good. Seems like a double-std to me.

For the record, I use RC for movies but pure direct for music in my living room setup.

The funny thing is, how many tone controls and equalizers does the signal go through during the mastering process? It would seem that adding 1 more to the signal chain wouldn't be an issue (assuming they are working correctly).

Tone controls are bad. Room EQ is good.

 

[3db]

3db,
This is not a condemnation of old Technics gear, they definitely made some fine gear! I think the issue is unique to this specific amp. ADTG's notion on the tone controls being faulty seems the most reasonable explanation.

Never took it that way. Just had an oppertunity to flaunt something old.

 

[slipperybidness]

3db,
This is not a condemnation of old Technics gear, they definitely made some fine gear! I think the issue is unique to this specific amp. ADTG's notion on the tone controls being faulty seems the most reasonable explanation.




I'm not sure I follow you reasoning. I first came to my conclusion in the distant past when I swapped amps. I can't see the reason to invalidate that.
However, I pulled it out and re-verified my assessment a couple of years ago.

I have an older (early 80s) technics integrated that sounded pretty good. I've torn it apart and am working on a steam-punk mod for it. I've never really seen a steam-punk amp, so that is why I chose this project.

 

[slipperybidness]

Tone controls are bad. Room EQ is good.

2 legs bad, 4 legs good.......Animal Farm

 

[ski2xblack]

This thread makes me recall one of the older Panasonic "all digital" avrs from a few years ago. Although not necessarily characterized as 'crappy', particularly by some Klipsch fanboys, they definitely sounded 'different'. (Audioholics reviewed one and found the output impedance to be 1 ohm.)