Powering Ascend Sierras with room to grow, need advice!

[nball]

Hi everyone!

The 'holics (holla!) helped me so much getting an idea what to buy for a budget/beginner semi-audiophile set up. Thanks so much for everyone's help. I went with 3x Emptek EW-30's an Outlaw LFM-1 EX, and a refurb Marantz 5004.

My wife and I were not impressed by the Emptek's voice reproduction for movies at all. For music they were great. I ran Audyssey and could never get the microphone to behave. Sometimes it would not detect. Other times it did not like the ambient noise. I ran the process many times. Night, day, off-hours, etc.

Long story short: now the entire set up lives in an external office in 2.1 form. They are wonderfully broken in and sound great in the relatively near field of my office for jazz, hip hop, classical, and electronic music. I love 'em for music! No love lost at all. I wonder if the room size is an issue. Or the audyssey problems a result of the refurb. At this point, does not matter.

We struggled along with TV speakers (gasp!) for too long. We're getting a pair of Ascend Sierra-1's (probably with the NrT upgrade) in the next month or so. I plan to start with simple stereo configuration. If needed I may move the LFM back into the house. Eventually we may add center or surround.

The room is 22 x 13 x 8, hardwood floors, with a large rug, tons of furniture, and children's apparatus. It's mostly open on one long side to small dining room and smaller kitchen (two openings). The LFM pressurizes the room well enough for our purposes. Given the kids are so close to the main room I doubt we'll take advantage of the sub that much. Pains me to say it. The real issue is vocal legibility and clarity.

Sources will be: either PS3 or Oppo on BluRay for movies, Xbox for streamed movies. Music will be Macbook Pro optical to the receiver. Music files are everything from 24-bit WAV, FLAC, and AAC to 320-bit MP3. I am very familiar as a graphics professional about "garbage in, garbage out."

Rough requirements would be:
0. Good voice legibility for movies even though usage will be 80% music -- I know this is crazy, but I am trying to create a new female Audioholic here
1. Power Sierra-1's well enough -- should I be looking at something else? (wrong board I know)
2. Audyssey Dynamic EQ & Volume -- would love to test with Sierra's before making huge commitment
3. Ability to use sub later -- inevitable I think
4. No more than $600, preferably less -- can be up to $900 if bang/buck is obvious, willing to test

So … to power the Sierra's without totally breaking the bank I am considering several options. Really I am asking what you would do in similar circumstances!

1. Denon 2112CI for $380 -- cheap, with audyssey goodies
2. Denon 3312CI for $600 -- more power
3. Use existing Marantz 5004 for Sierra's and buy something cheap as hell for the office system
4. Something else entirely?

Really could use your help here. I can provide drawings of the space if that helps. Big love!

 

[fuzz092888]

I don't think what you've picked out are bad choices at all. IMO I think Marantz are great receivers and I think that stayin with them but maybe doing a partial upgrade wouldn't be a half bad idea (think 5006 or 6006). The new models should be coming out pretty soon to the prices on hose two models should be going down.

I'll stay away from any speaker recommendations, but I will ask Are you lookin at bookshelves for WAF? Are floorstanders completely out of the question?

 

[sholling]

The main difference between the Sierra-1s and the NrTs is at extreme high frequencies. Sierra-1s have ever so slightly rolled off extreme highs while the NrT upgrade extends those highs. As for power requirements I ran my Sierra-1 NrTs off a really solid 100w Onkyo TX-SR707 for better than a year before an upgrade in another room freed up a more powerful receiver. While they could probably use a bit more they really don't need it. Of course I cross mine over to a very capable subwoofer at about 70hz so I'm not pushing the receiver as hard as I would if I didn't have a sub. But if you can swing the 3312 I'd probably spend the extra couple of hundred or so.

What really concerns me is the room. There is a very good chance that reflections off the floors and walls are muddying up the voices and if that's the case you may be wasting money on new gear. I think that before spending any hard earned money that I'd drag the old speakers back in and lay some heavy throw rugs (or double layers of blankets for the test) in front of them and extending out about 1/2 way or more to your seating position. Anything to absorb reflections. Then rerun Audyssey and see how it sounds. You may find that a few hundred dollars worth of rugs and panels gives you what you're looking for.

 

[nball]

I don't think what you've picked out are bad choices at all. IMO I think Marantz are great receivers and I think that stayin with them but maybe doing a partial upgrade wouldn't be a half bad idea (think 5006 or 6006). The new models should be coming out pretty soon to the prices on hose two models should be going down.

I love the 5004 other than the problem recognizing/using the Audyssey mic. For music it's not an issue.

I'll stay away from any speaker recommendations, but I will ask Are you lookin at bookshelves for WAF? Are floorstanders completely out of the question?

Book shelves due to several reasons: WAF unless I spend $2.5k+ on beautiful towers (nope), existing sub I can tap for duty if needed.

 

[fuzz092888]

I love the 5004 other than the problem recognizing/using the Audyssey mic. For music it's not an issue.

Book shelves due to several reasons: WAF unless I spend $2.5k+ on beautiful towers (nope), existing sub I can tap for duty if needed.

Have you considered/tried just buying a replacement mic or is the problem receiver/software related?

I really like Marantz and if you like he 5004 then I'd probably step up to the 5/6006 or maybe even one of the new models when they come out, I'm pretty sure the new models will have XT32 which isn't half bad IMO. Still not the greatest, but not as bad as some of the older iterations.

This isn't to say the Denons are bad, I'm sure you'd be happy with either of those as well, I just like Marantz better . Although I will say that I've been impressed with my onkyo so far, but I'd only recommend the high/mid to flagship of those models.

If you're using bookshelves for HT duty you'll definitely need to get that sub involved, and for music there aren't many that will dig deep enough and still play loud enough for most people. The sierras aren't a bad choice, you could also look at aperion, rbh, and source sound. If you really want to stretch the budget, soundfield audio makes a pair of bookshelves that will get way down there. There are also the philharmonitors from philharmonic audio. The last two sets (soundfield and Phil) will both still be under $1500 so not stretching super far. Just something else to look at and take into consideration.

Sorry about the lack of links but I'm on my phone (and on vacation) so let google be your friend for looking any of that stuff up

 

[nball]

The main difference between the Sierra-1s and the NrTs is at extreme high frequencies. Sierra-1s have ever so slightly rolled off extreme highs while the NrT upgrade extends those highs. As for power requirements I ran my Sierra-1 NrTs off a really solid 100w Onkyo TX-SR707 for better than a year before an upgrade in another room freed up a more powerful receiver. While they could probably use a bit more they really don't need it. Of course I cross mine over to a very capable subwoofer at about 70hz so I'm not pushing the receiver as hard as I would if I didn't have a sub. But if you can swing the 3312 I'd probably spend the extra couple of hundred or so.

Your reviews and descriptions of the Sierra's are a huge factor in my decision. I've probably read every one of your posts. Kinda creepy but serious. Not creepy at all.

Thanks for clarifying the NrT upgrade. I tend to think we will benefit from it as we're more sensitive to the higher frequencies and liable to be listening sans-sub at higher volumes. At the same time, I'd like to audition them in stock form: just because.

What really concerns me is the room. There is a very good chance that reflections off the floors and walls are muddying up the voices and if that's the case you may be wasting money on new gear. I think that before spending any hard earned money that I'd drag the old speakers back in and lay some heavy throw rugs (or double layers of blankets for the test) in front of them and extending out about 1/2 way or more to your seating position. Anything to absorb reflections. Then rerun Audyssey and see how it sounds. You may find that a few hundred dollars worth of rugs and panels gives you what you're looking for.

The main living space is not that flexible, and my original speaker choice is wall mount, so I am sorry to report your unerring logic is dashed by messy reality. The space is not all hard surfaces either, yet far from acoustically sweet. I'd treat the room but it's just not an option right now. It's what I've got to work with for about 2-3 years until we own. What I would like to do is buy something that will make sense when we own later: thus the Sierra's. I cannot justify Songtowers or Philharmonic 1's at the moment. When the time comes, I shall!

I cannot express how much I appreciate your advice on this matter. Thank you so much.

 

[nball]

Thread not dead!

One thousand thank yous for your help. We are now rocking Ascend Sierra Towers with a matching Sierra-1 NrT center, Outlaw LF1-EX, and aforementioned Marantz 5004. The Sierras were a revelation. They will let you know how music was mixed/produced: I would not call them forgiving. I will say they're as good or better than my buddy's B&W 804's.

I ordered a new mic from Accessories 4 Less and the Marantz still refuses to recognize it. I think this could be why it was a refurb. I still love the stereo sound so it will go to the home gym/office and get replaced...

The Marantz will be in 1:1 comparison with an Onkyo TX-NR709, ordered not 1hr. ago from Accessories 4 Less. We will have 30 days to decide which is the champion. The Marantz has great sound, but can it keep up with the Onkyo's formidable technology?

The reflective space is still a factor. That's getting addressed after the AVR. On the list: replace rug, heavier or layered drapery, maybe rock wool (or similar) behind the art work. Corner dampening also an option but bass doesn't seem to be an issue so far.