Can Marantz SR-6006 support HD Audio?

[ChrisL9472]

Hello All,

I'm considering buying a Marantz SR-6006 and UD-5005 combo. The Crutchfield website says the UD-5005 (blu-ray player) has "high-resolution audio that can be decoded in the player or in your compatible receiver through HDMI connection".

I would assume the SR-6006 is "compatible" but it doesn't say. If so, do I have to bypass the DAC's in the receiver to achieve this? I would also assume the DAC in the UD-5005 is superior to those in the receiver but once again it doesn't say. Won't using Audyssey cancel out the ability to bypass the internal DAC's in the receiver?

Would I be better off just using the component audio outputs for stereo? Will the HDMI be audio only in music mode? Does any of this really matter?

P.S. I have not been able to find a review here on either of these units, only the SR-5006 is listed, and that review was rather useless to me.

 

[GranteedEV]

Can Marantz SR-6006 support HD Audio?

Without a doubt.

The Crutchfield website says the UD-5005 (blu-ray player) has "high-resolution audio that can be decoded in the player or in your compatible receiver through HDMI connection".

Unless it's well-priced, I would avoid this unit. High end disc players are a poor value.

I would assume the SR-6006 is "compatible" but it doesn't say. If so, do I have to bypass the DAC's in the receiver to achieve this?

I would also assume the DAC in the UD-5005 is superior to those in the receiver but once again it doesn't say. Won't using Audyssey cancel out the ability to bypass the internal DAC's in the receiver?

THe only bad thing about audyssey is that it may mess with the frequency response of your speakers. Don't worry about DACs. Majority of source material has gone through countless DAC conversions already.

 

[ChrisL9472]

Without a doubt.

OK, but is it HDMI audio only for 2-channel listening, or does it still stream video signals?

Unless it's well-priced, I would avoid this unit. High end disc players are a poor value.

It's not all entirely about monetary value for me, I want aesthetically matched components that are built well and look good, and are bigger and heavier then my alarm clock.

THe only bad thing about audyssey is that it may mess with the frequency response of your speakers.

From what I understand, it messes with your speakers a great deal as it's supposed to.

Don't worry about DACs. Majority of source material has gone through countless DAC conversions already.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Irishman]

Without a doubt.



Unless it's well-priced, I would avoid this unit. High end disc players are a poor value.

I would assume the SR-6006 is "compatible" but it doesn't say. If so, do I have to bypass the DAC's in the receiver to achieve this?



THe only bad thing about audyssey is that it may mess with the frequency response of your speakers. Don't worry about DACs. Majority of source material has gone through countless DAC conversions already.

The UD5005 is a universal player, adding DVD-Audio and SACD support. You can decide for yourself what value that adds to its feature set.

 

[fuzz092888]

OK, but is it HDMI audio only for 2-channel listening, or does it still stream video signals?

HDMI can stream HD video as well as full surround audio.

It's not all entirely about monetary value for me, I want aesthetically matched components that are built well and look good, and are bigger and heavier then my alarm clock.

Personally I would get the oppo BDP-93 before I got the Marantz, but wanting to have matching components is fair enough. You'd be happy with the marantz, but I think the oppo gives you a bit more for your money.

I wouldn't worry about the audio going through DAC's. As GranteedEV has said the audio of just about everything has already gone through quite a few DAC's already.

From what I understand, it messes with your speakers a great deal as it's supposed to.

Sort of. Audyssey fixes many of the issues that exist between your room and your speakers in the bass region, but is known for doing some not nice things to your mid and high frequency range. It's ok room correction software, but by no means is it great, at least comparatively.

 

[zieglj01]

The Marantz Bluray player will be fine - Also, I do not listen to D/A conversion,
or Audyessy and the likes of Ypao, Mcacc and SnapEQ. My main concern is the
bass below 200hz - if the speakers are bad, then they will go out the door.

 

[fuzz092888]

I agree with Jim that often room correction software can do more harm than good, however good room correction can really help just about any speakers since the room plays such a huge part in how speakers sound.

The best room correction to my knowledge is trinnov, but it's expensive and somewhat complicated.

Like Jim has said, bass is really where you want to manage if nothing else, invest in some good bass management hardware/software later on, but you can play with audyssey until then and see if you like what it does.

 

[ChrisL9472]

HDMI can stream HD video as well as full surround audio.

Yes, I understand that, but if you can use it in a pure 2-channel mode, does it still stream unwanted video signals?

Personally I would get the oppo BDP-93 before I got the Marantz, but wanting to have matching components is fair enough. You'd be happy with the marantz, but I think the oppo gives you a bit more for your money.

I like (sort of) the BDP-93 but as I said it doesn't match with what I'd like to get and it also doesn't have dedicated analog stereo outputs. I actually have the BDP-93 right now but I think I may be sending it back. I don't care for the way that voices in movies are hard to hear while all other sounds are two loud. The Sony ES unit I just replaced it with didn't seem to have that problem, and making adjustments on the BDP-93 didn't seem to help.

I wouldn't worry about the audio going through DAC's. As GranteedEV has said the audio of just about everything has already gone through quite a few DAC's already.

OK, but if you have a really good DAC like a Burr-Brown or Sabre 24 or 32bit versus some no-name brand 16bit or whatever inside the receiver, wouldn't you rather use the players superior DAC? From what I understand, if you use Audyssey you are forced to use the receivers generic DACs. That was the question I wanted to know.

 

[GranteedEV]

OK, but if you have a really good DAC like a Burr-Brown or Sabre 24 or 32bit versus some no-name brand 16bit or whatever inside the receiver, wouldn't you rather use the players superior DAC?

When both are > -100db SNR, why would I pay more for the name brand? It's a damn DAC. That money can go to better analog circuitry, more amplification, or better yet, better speakers.

Yes, I understand that, but if you can use it in a pure 2-channel mode, does it still stream unwanted video signals?

Not that it matters, but in Pure direct, it won't send any video and will also turn off the LEDs.

I like (sort of) the BDP-93 but as I said it doesn't match with what I'd like to get and it also doesn't have dedicated analog stereo outputs. I actually have the BDP-93 right now but I think I may be sending it back. I don't care for the way that voices in movies are hard to hear while all other sounds are two loud. The Sony ES unit I just replaced it with didn't seem to have that problem, and making adjustments on the BDP-93 didn't seem to help.

Sounds like you're hearing dynamic range out of the oppo, while the sony is compressing it all together.

From what I understand, if you use Audyssey you are forced to use the receivers generic DACs. That was the question I wanted to know.

The answer is yes, but it's accompanied by "it doesn't matter".

 

[fuzz092888]

+1 to everything GranteedEV said

I'll also add that dedicated stereo outputs aren't necessary unless you're trying to output audio to something other than your receiver. The multichannel analog outputs will work just as well.

 

[ChrisL9472]

When both are > -100db SNR, why would I pay more for the name brand? It's a damn DAC. That money can go to better analog circuitry, more amplification, or better yet, better speakers.

It's not a question of paying more for something but using what I have available in the best way. The units I'm talking about already come with great DAC's, I'm not paying extra just for that.

Not that it matters, but in Pure direct, it won't send any video and will also turn off the LEDs.

Turning off annoying lights matters to me, if anything else.

Sounds like you're hearing dynamic range out of the oppo, while the sony is compressing it all together.

If struggling to hear dialogue one minute and having to rush to turn down the volume everytime a loud noise happens is supposed to be dynamic, then that's not for me. The BDP-93 probably requires a center channel to work properly, which I don't have at the moment. Since it has no dedicated analog stereo outs it is probably not the best choice for music, other then that it is a fine unit. The Marantz unit seems to have the best of both worlds (movies and music) minus the wireless capability, which can be easily remedied.

The answer is yes, but it's accompanied by "it doesn't matter".

You sound like the big creature from The Neverending Story.

Why do you some of you guys even bother with any of this if nothing matters?

 

[GranteedEV]

If struggling to hear dialogue one minute and having to rush to turn down the volume everytime a loud noise happens is supposed to be dynamic, then that's not for me.

That's how the movie is recorded. If it's not for you, use dynamic range compression (DRC). But do realize that you're reducing fidelity 100x more than the stuff you seem to be concerned about.

Since it has no dedicated analog stereo outs it is probably not the best choice for music, other then that it is a fine unit.

?

Um....Read page 17 of the manual.

Why do you some of you guys even bother with any of this if nothing matters?

.......because we bother with the stuff that does matter??

 

[GranteedEV]

It's not a question of paying more for something but using what I have available in the best way. The units I'm talking about already come with great DAC's, I'm not paying extra just for that.

But are you using what's available in the best possible way, if it's going through multiple preamp stages, amplifying noise along the way while increasing likelyhood of a clipping stage, when using that "inferior" DAC would produce a lower noise floor and less degrees of error with only the one preamp stage at the very end of it all??

My point is that if you ARE going to fret about these "little inaudible things", you can't just assume that using the "best" x is going to give the best wholistic performance q(r(x(y)^2+(z)^6)^3)^11. It's possible that cutting that x out of the equation altogether will improve performance.

As an aside regarding dynamic range, a bluray will generally have dialogue levels of about 75 to 85db and allow for the sound to be as loud as 95 to 105db. This is simply how it is mastered. If you don't like it, your problem is not with the electronics, but with the source material and perhaps the reproduction system's ability to stay composed. You may "prefer" an electronic that "cuts down" those 105db peaks down to IE 85db but it's not fair to assume it's the other electronic at fault. It's the source at fault.

 

[fuzz092888]

Are you running 2.1, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1? I don't think you've said, but if you have a center channel in the mix then you should be able to boost the center channel level on either the oppo or whatever receiver you are currently using. This would solve the dialogue issue. The oppo is a great machine, one of the best you can buy so if your'e unhappy with it you're probably not using it correctly, your speakers are to blame, or as GranteedEV said its probably the source material you have a problem with.

 

[ChrisL9472]

That's how the movie is recorded. If it's not for you, use dynamic range compression (DRC). But do realize that you're reducing fidelity 100x more than the stuff you seem to be concerned about.

Tried that, didn't really help. As you said, it may be the way the movies were recorded. They were both newer movies I wasn't familiar with.

Regardless, I didn't like the way they sounded, and I couldn't do much to change it. Which is why I'm looking into a nice AV receiver like the Marantz SR-6006 to help with that. But my main questions here were regarding music through HDMI, not exaggerated movie sounds. But from what I understand it looks like I may not want to go though the HDMI/music route anyway.

? Um....Read page 17 of the manual.

It doesn't have the outputs like the BDP-95 does, that's why they came out with that model. I've heard nothing but praise about that model as being pretty much the best sounding digital source available and Oppo gives a lenghty explanation on their Sabre 32 bit DAC which the 93 doesn't have. Also, the analog outputs on the BDP-93 look like they are meant to be configured for each speaker with distance, crossover, etc. and I don't want any of that that potentially messing with my music. The BDP-95 has dedicated stereo outs. So does the Marantz UD-5005.

Even the professional review I read here seems to recommend the 95 over the 93 for a more music purist application.

Are all these people and the engineers at Oppo wasting their time?

.......because we bother with the stuff that does matter??

Other than acquiring the cheapest mass produced gear at the cheapest possible prices, there doesn't seem to be much that matters.

Everyone seems to be told the same thing: "Buy such and such brand X AV receiver and brand Y speakers instead of your overpriced ideas and you'll be good". Then when they follow those recommendations, they are told: "I'm sorry you paid so much for those brand y speakers, you could have got them for less at (enter the obscure online retailer of your choice)".

Well... maybe not everyone is told that, but I know I was, and although I kept an open mind, I was ultimately never happy with any of those recommendations.

Anyway, the BDP-95 is another unit I'm seriously looking into. The only drawback is the price and the fact it won't match my Marantz (which I just ordered by the way, at the best price I could find, and I REALLY checked this time). But this unit appears to be so good that I may be willing to make the investment for the online streaming, SACD playback, 32bit analog stereo, wireless, etc. Not to mention it's beautiful looks and build quality.

Thanks for trying to answer my questions, although I'm still not what I want yet, other then to say I want something to matter.

 

[ChrisL9472]

Are you running 2.1, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1? I don't think you've said, but if you have a center channel in the mix then you should be able to boost the center channel level on either the oppo or whatever receiver you are currently using. This would solve the dialogue issue. The oppo is a great machine, one of the best you can buy so if your'e unhappy with it you're probably not using it correctly, your speakers are to blame, or as GranteedEV said its probably the source material you have a problem with.

I stated before I was only using 2-channel, but that doesn't matter, as I never noticed the problem before. And yes, my speakers are not so great to say the least (although they were recommended here, and I bought them to my regret). Also, it may have been just the movies recordings themselves that I didn't like. Some of these over-the-top new movies sound almost as bad as the cold, shrill new rock/pop recordings.

You're right, the Oppo is a great machine, which is why I'm taking it back and considering the next model up instead, which seems to have more of the audio features I want.

 

[ChrisL9472]

But are you using what's available in the best possible way, if it's going through multiple preamp stages, amplifying noise along the way while increasing likelyhood of a clipping stage, when using that "inferior" DAC would produce a lower noise floor and less degrees of error with only the one preamp stage at the very end of it all??

My point is that if you ARE going to fret about these "little inaudible things", you can't just assume that using the "best" x is going to give the best wholistic performance q(r(x(y)^2+(z)^6)^3)^11. It's possible that cutting that x out of the equation altogether will improve performance.

As an aside regarding dynamic range, a bluray will generally have dialogue levels of about 75 to 85db and allow for the sound to be as loud as 95 to 105db. This is simply how it is mastered. If you don't like it, your problem is not with the electronics, but with the source material and perhaps the reproduction system's ability to stay composed. You may "prefer" an electronic that "cuts down" those 105db peaks down to IE 85db but it's not fair to assume it's the other electronic at fault. It's the source at fault.

I have coaxial and optical inputs on my receiver, and every time I tried it's internal DAC vs. the CD/DVD player it either sounded slightly less involving or the same. Yes, there was bias involved. I was hoping it would sound better or the same that way so I could use less cables.

I'll admit my receiver is a total cheapo, but my first impressions on using it's internal DACs weren't positive. That is why I was asking if using HDMI for music would bypass the players own DAC's. Perhaps this won't matter with a great AV receiver. I hope your right and I will soon find out.

 

[fuzz092888]

I stated before I was only using 2-channel, but that doesn't matter, as I never noticed the problem before. And yes, my speakers are not so great to say the least (although they were recommended here, and I bought them to my regret). Also, it may have been just the movies recordings themselves that I didn't like. Some of these over-the-top new movies sound almost as bad as the cold, shrill new rock/pop recordings.

You're right, the Oppo is a great machine, which is why I'm taking it back and considering the next model up instead, which seems to have more of the audio features I want.

Unless I'm mistaken you never said it was only for 2 channel listening, you only asked how it would sound for 2 channel listening.

If you're only using two channels to watch blu-ray movies then you need a center channel plain and simple. It is no fault of the electronics that you have trouble hearing voices you just need a center channel speaker. I don't know what receiver you're using, but getting the 6006 and adding a center channel should give you everything you need, if you're unhappy with your cheap receiver.

Personally I think you're letting too much bias creep into your decisions (except the hard to hear voices because I've had the same problem). It's not something you can help but it sounds to me like you're focusing on all the wrong bits and allowing your opinions to color the sound, far more so than the the electronics or speakers. Although depending on what you're coming from in the speaker department you could just be used to inaccurate sound and then switching to accurate speakers made it sound a bit hinky.

NwAvGuy: What We Hear

Give this a read sometime. Cheers.

 

[Grador]

If you are using just two channels then the player or receiver WILL have an impact upon how everything sounds as you are relying upon it to downmix. Alternatively, are you positive you have the oppo set to stereo? If you did not that would most definitely explain why you cannot hear any dialog as it's being routed to a center channel that is not there, I would double check this.

As I don't think I've seen your HDMI question answered directly: of course using HDMI does not bypass the internal DAC as HDMI is a purely digital connection. Anything sent over it must be converted.

 

[LB06]

I stated before I was only using 2-channel, but that doesn't matter, as I never noticed the problem before. And yes, my speakers are not so great to say the least (although they were recommended here, and I bought them to my regret). Also, it may have been just the movies recordings themselves that I didn't like. Some of these over-the-top new movies sound almost as bad as the cold, shrill new rock/pop recordings.

You're right, the Oppo is a great machine, which is why I'm taking it back and considering the next model up instead, which seems to have more of the audio features I want.

Two channel audio will be just fine over hdmi. Depending on the source your receiver MAY receive surround sound, but just with a bunch of empty channels (if the source was stereo). This shouldn't have an impact on audio quality however, as the receiver will just ignore them. If you can set the source to stereo, you can be assured that the device will actually send only 2 channels.

If the source is multichannel you can either let the source device downmix it to 2.0 or let the receiver do it. I'm not sure how different the downmixing algorithms are in various devices, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Dolby and DTS prescribe a more or less standardised 5.1 -> 2.0 downmix algorithm. YMMV though.

As for your speakers, I'm sorry to hear that you don't like them but especially with speakers it's important to audition them first. Sound quality and especially the sound experience can be very subjective.

Unless I'm mistaken you never said it was only for 2 channel listening, you only asked how it would sound for 2 channel listening.

If you're only using two channels to watch blu-ray movies then you need a center channel plain and simple. It is no fault of the electronics that you have trouble hearing voices you just need a center channel speaker. I don't know what receiver you're using, but getting the 6006 and adding a center channel should give you everything you need, if you're unhappy with your cheap receiver.

This is just plain wrong. You're saying that the centre channel (where most of the dialogue is) is truncated, but if that's the case it's a PEBKAC. Channel truncating will ONLY happen if you tell the receiver that you have a centre channel, when if fact you don't. If you have set the receiver to stereo output any and all multichannel input will be downmixed to stereo. A very essential part of the downmixing, and I can state without reservation that ANY downmixing algorithm currently on the market do this, is to divide the contents of the centre channel equally between FL and FR. How else do you think people watch a movie on their PC/laptop?

If you are using just two channels then the player or receiver WILL have an impact upon how everything sounds as you are relying upon it to downmix. Alternatively, are you positive you have the oppo set to stereo? If you did not that would most definitely explain why you cannot hear any dialog as it's being routed to a center channel that is not there, I would double check this.

As I don't think I've seen your HDMI question answered directly: of course using HDMI does not bypass the internal DAC as HDMI is a purely digital connection. Anything sent over it must be converted.

Yes. The source and/or the AV receiver will have to be set to stereo. That will prevent channel truncation.

And if you use hdmi all the way, all DACs will be bypassed except the DAC of the receiver. So it really depends on which 'internal' DAC you mean exactly