Cadence CSX15 Mark II Subwoofer Review

[jinjuku]

I recall debating with my professors about my exams scores back in my days at my University. And I deserved every point back damn it!

 

[theJman]

I find the hue and cry about the amp chamber rather interesting and, in a sense, somewhat contradictory.

It's pretty widely acknowledged that separating the amp from the formidable back-wave and acoustic pressure generated by the driver is a desirable characteristic -- something I think all subs should do -- but in this case it appears to be derided instead. If the consensus is simply that the volume is insufficient I could understand the argument, but it seems as though some of the objections differ from that perspective.

I'm curious as to what the output would look like if Cadence merely lined the interior walls with more damping material. That has the net effect of making the cabinet appear to be larger then it's actual physical volume. It's not a true solution, like a redesign would be, but I'd be interested to know what the results of an exercise like that might be.

 

[j_garcia]

I find the hue and cry about the amp chamber rather interesting and, in a sense, somewhat contradictory.

It's pretty widely acknowledged that separating the amp from the formidable back-wave and acoustic pressure generated by the driver is a desirable characteristic -- something I think all subs should do -- but in this case it appears to be derided instead. If the consensus is simply that the volume is insufficient I could understand the argument, but it seems as though some of the objections differ from that perspective.

They are certainly not the only manufacturer doing this for the amp and it has been done that way for at least 20 years.

 

[gene]

I find the hue and cry about the amp chamber rather interesting and, in a sense, somewhat contradictory.

It's pretty widely acknowledged that separating the amp from the formidable back-wave and acoustic pressure generated by the driver is a desirable characteristic -- something I think all subs should do -- but in this case it appears to be derided instead. If the consensus is simply that the volume is insufficient I could understand the argument, but it seems as though some of the objections differ from that perspective.

I'm curious as to what the output would look like if Cadence merely lined the interior walls with more damping material. That has the net effect of making the cabinet appear to be larger then it's actual physical volume. It's not a true solution, like a redesign would be, but I'd be interested to know what the results of an exercise like that might be.

It's "derided" when it sacrifices box volume to make a 15" 90lb subwoofer perform no better than a midbass module. You can seriously get better output performance from a sealed 12" Emotiva below 50Hz than this!

 

[theJman]

It's "derided" when it sacrifices box volume to make a 15" 90lb subwoofer perform no better than a midbass module. You can seriously get better output performance from a sealed 12" Emotiva below 50Hz than this!

I wasn't referring to the outcome, only the concept; it appeared as though some were surprised the amp was housed in a separate chamber, and blamed that for the problem. In reality that's how all subs should be designed. In the case of the CSX15 perhaps a bit more judiciously, but not by forgoing the amp isolation entirely.

 

[gene]

I wasn't referring to the outcome, only the concept; it appeared as though some were surprised the amp was housed in a separate chamber, and blamed that for the problem. In reality that's how all subs should be designed. In the case of the CSX15 perhaps a bit more judiciously, but not by forgoing the amp isolation entirely.

I'm not sure it's an absolute requirement by anyone. Usually a plastic cover over the amp is sufficient. I reviewed plenty of subs where the amps were not isolated (such as the Velodyne DD15+, SVS PB13-Ultra) and it worked just fine. The alleged benefits of isolating the amp are NEVER greater than the detriment of wasting valuable box space for the driver.

 

[Ricci]

A couple of things that I would like to add here...

I would like to thank Cadence for sending the subwoofer in and for allowing the review to be published even though it is not entirely glowing. I admit to being a harsh and rather blunt reviewer compared to most even though I try to temper it somewhat, so take that for what it is worth. That's just the way I am for better or worse. Also keep in mind that my frame of reference for bass and subwoofers in general is a bit unusual. When a subwoofer is reviewed there is no guarantee that the review will actually be published. The manufacturer has the right to ask for it to not be published if they feel like it is unfair or negative to their product. That is not a comfortable or great scenario for either party involved after the effort expended to get to that point, but it does happen. If you are wondering...Yes in fact there have been some reviews that were not published at the end of the day and there have been some that have resulted in quite a bit of energetic email "discussion" as well. There are some manufacturer's who will not even send product in due to the extremely indepth nature of the reviews. Cadence was happy to send in a product and give their blessing to have the review be published despite some criticisms contained in it, so to me that says something positive about Cadence and the team they employ there.













About separate amplifier compartments...In general and in my own personal opinion here, having a separate chamber for a built in amplifier is unnecessary with modern plate amps and provides no advantages to offset the potentially significant drawbacks involved. It stands to reason that if meaningful advantage were to be gained by doing this that it would be much more common than it is as speaker manufacturers and engineers expend a considerable amount of R&D on trying to squeeze the most from the least amount of resources. A single small panel of MDF and a bit of glue are negligible to add during the design stage if there were some advantage to be gained from doing so. In fact it will often be detrimental to find a separate amplifier compartment as that is air volume not available for the actual transducer/s to operate in, which will have a negative impact on the systems overall low frequency extension, efficiency and or headroom. Hoffman's iron law at work.

 

[theJman]

About separate amplifier compartments...In general and in my own personal opinion here, having a separate chamber for a built in amplifier is unnecessary with modern plate amps and provides no advantages to offset the potentially significant drawbacks involved.

Now that's a sentiment I find very surprising indeed. Few know subs like you do Josh, so I'm certainly not questioning your acumen, I'm just quite surprised by your stance.

Having done some design and DIY related projects myself I have first hand knowledge of how much pressure is built up inside the cabinet, especially with acoustic suspension. It's hard for me to fathom how that incessant pounding by back-wave couldn't possibly have a long term detrimental effect on the electronics. Perhaps the key word is "modern" plate amps, but it's still difficult for me to comprehend nonetheless. I'm not sure I would even consider purchasing a sub that didn't isolate the amp -- especially if it had a 15" or 18" driver in a sealed enclosure -- but perhaps I'm in the minority there.

I won't belabor the point further -- because this is a thread about Cadence after all -- but that's certainly some very interesting stuff...

 

[Ricci]

Hey I'm not saying it always a questionable decision or anything like that, certainly there can be cases where the amplifier doesn't seal well on its own and leaks through the connection jacks or makes a whistling noise. I've actually run into that before. There can be a lot of vibration or force inside of the subwoofer which might cause premature component failure or something as well but there are a LOT of subwoofers that are run for years which do not have an isolated amplifier and they do just fine. Perhaps in some cases it is determined in development that there is danger of premature amplifier failure but I'm speculating there. It is not something I personally look for and as long as the manufacturer has a decent warranty I wouldn't worry about it too much. YMMV.

 

[spyboy]

At Josh Ricci:

Thanks for the thorough review of the Cadence CSX 15 II. In a short span of time you have come to be highly respected for your subwoofer reviews, (unlike some professed reviewers).

Someone who thinks that suggesting the addition of an additional 8 ounces of poly fill doesn't qualify as "doing design projects", nor does suggesting that screws be replaced with "T" nuts ...

Keep up the great work. Your technical expertise in measuring critical data makes your reviews truly superior to much of what is passing for reviews that lack a single number, especially the base frequency response. For example one so-called reviewer thinks that a subwoofer with a passive radiator is an "acoustic suspension" design and doesn't know that a sub with a single driver and a single passive radiator behaves much more like a ported design rather than a sealed design.

The subwoofer community is always looking forward to your excellent reviews.

 

[theJman]

At Josh Ricci:

Thanks for the thorough review of the Cadence CSX 15 II. In a short span of time you have come to be highly respected for your subwoofer reviews, (unlike some professed reviewers).

Someone who thinks that suggesting the addition of an additional 8 ounces of poly fill doesn't qualify as "doing design projects", nor does suggesting that screws be replaced with "T" nuts ...

Keep up the great work. Your technical expertise in measuring critical data makes your reviews truly superior to much of what is passing for reviews that lack a single number, especially the base frequency response. For example one so-called reviewer thinks that a subwoofer with a passive radiator is an "acoustic suspension" design and doesn't know that a sub with a single driver and a single passive radiator behaves much more like a ported design rather than a sealed design.

All the other reviews -- whether or not they contain numbers -- greatly exceed that which you contribute, which amounts to essentially nothing but sarcasm, in this and every other forum. You really need to back off and go find something productive to do. Your incessant jabs and hollow comments have no value to anyone but yourself. Self aggrandizing has no place here. Move on already.

 

[Tom V.]

At Josh Ricci:

Thanks for the thorough review of the Cadence CSX 15 II. In a short span of time you have come to be highly respected for your subwoofer reviews

+1

Tom Vodhanel
Power Sound Audio

 

[Ricci]

Thanks for the kind words guys. We've got another coming down the pipe shortly.

Tom...Glad to see you around.

 

[theJman]

Thanks for the kind words guys. We've got another coming down the pipe shortly.

Glad to hear. Looking forward to it.