nOOb looking for more help

D

Drumbo

Audioholic Intern
OK OK
I have been trying trying trying to make up my mind

I just went to a local speaker store that had some crazy $170k custom made speakers. But i went to test drive the KEF line

They only had the q700, the room was a little small, but they sounded great in the room.
My room 19 x 19 x 9ft ceiling
open to kitchen, about same size
speakers will be facing the back wall of living space, not toward the kitchen

I havent picked the sub yet, (hsu, epik, rythmik, or epik Im sure)

Here is where im at

KEF iq90 x 2 = $749
KEF iq10 = $190
Waiting for good deal on the KEF iq60, but have heard of them going for around $300

I was thinking not a bad deal for $1200 5.0 system. ? Any thoughts?
Music will be classic rock, hip hop, electronic

My finger is itchy
 
D

Drumbo

Audioholic Intern
72 views and no repsonses???

No advice from anywhere?
 
P

psymonpsyko

Enthusiast
OK OK
I have been trying trying trying to make up my mind

I just went to a local speaker store that had some crazy $170k custom made speakers. But i went to test drive the KEF line

They only had the q700, the room was a little small, but they sounded great in the room.
My room 19 x 19 x 9ft ceiling
open to kitchen, about same size
speakers will be facing the back wall of living space, not toward the kitchen

I havent picked the sub yet, (hsu, epik, rythmik, or epik Im sure)

Here is where im at

KEF iq90 x 2 = $749
KEF iq10 = $190
Waiting for good deal on the KEF iq60, but have heard of them going for around $300

I was thinking not a bad deal for $1200 5.0 system. ? Any thoughts?
Music will be classic rock, hip hop, electronic

My finger is itchy

You can get speakers of just as high quality for a much lower price tag. then again for 1200 dollars you can get a full bowers and wilkins suite and get some crystal clear sound, but speakers are one half, what amplifier are you going for?
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Well here's the thing:

how many other speakers have you listened to? Have you auditioned many (any) speakers at home?

Very often, with a post that is worded the way your first post was, folks aren't looking for "advice" so much as they just want a big "thumbs up". And hey, if you've listened to several speakers in your price range, done a few home auditions and the KEF iQ speakers are the ones you like best and they really float your boat, then by all means, have at it! KEF is a reputable brand with many fans and good quality speakers, so nobody is going to tell you that you "wasted" your money or that you made a horrible decision (unless they're a troll :p ).

In that sort of $800-ish per pair speaker price range, there are quite a few very impressive speakers. So it might or might not be worth your time and effort to hear and compare at least a couple of them to find out, first-hand, if there is something you like even better than the Classic Q KEF speakers. But, like I say, if you've already listened and compared and the Classic Q speakers are the ones that "do it" for you, then "Thumbs Up!" :D

If you're interested, just off the top of my head, I'd consider an audition of the following three speaker lines:

Infinity Primus
EMP Tek Impression E55Ti Towers and E56Ci Center
Ascend Acoustics CMT-340SE Large Bookshelf Fronts and Center

The Infinity Primus speakers are fairly easy to find online for prices lower than the KEF system you're considering. They do a heck of a lot "right" for their rather remarkably low price point, including linear frequency response, very good dynamic capabilities, wide, even, but controlled dispersion, and an overall "balanced" sound that is really quite accurate and "tells it like it is". These are an excellent entry point for anyone who wants to experience accurate sound reproduction, but has a limited budget. In my opinion, this is the sort of speaker I wish more people would start with. I think if more people became used to this sort of sound reproduction, they'd be less inclined to go looking for speakers that "sound impressive" or "stand out" in a store demo. These are the sort of entry-level speakers that allow a person to learn how to listen critically, so I'm a fan of folks at least giving these speakers a try, especially when keeping the price as low as possible is a primary objective.

The EMP Tek Impression Series E55Ti and E56Ci are big, dynamic, beautiful speakers. They're an absolute steal when gorgeous looks are a high priority, and they're a great fit for anyone seeking LOUD output capabilities. These are a very "pleasing" speaker to listen to, with a very clear and slightly forward mid-range, and a more laid back top end that is never fatiguing. These are not "clinical" speakers. They are not ruthlessly accurate and revealing. These are more of a speaker that's meant to be "enjoyed" both visually and audibly.

The Ascend CMT-340 SE is probably my favorite speaker in this price range. The SEAS tweeter that Ascend uses in their SE speakers is really a cut above, IMO. It is very detailed, extended, free from distortion, precise, accurate and clear. But where I think it takes a step above the price competition is in its transient response, which I find to be faster, with cleaner decay than the competition at this price point, leading to better delineation between notes - more "air" between notes on the upper end. To me, it's a more refined sound that I don't expect at this price point.

I also happen to be a fan of large bookshelf speakers over towers. Towers are often designed just to play lower - using the larger cabinet volume to create a lower-tuned port so that the speakers sound "bigger" all on their own without a subwoofer. My personal stance is that everyone should always use a subwoofer. It's rarely the case that a tower speaker will be placed in the room such that it has good bass response at the seat. So I say, separate the bass frequencies, let a pair or quad subwoofers handle the bass so that you can place them in ideal (or at least better) locations in the room. And let the speakers handle the upper-bass frequencies above 80Hz on up, so that they can be placed for ideal imaging and soundstage, without worrying whether their bass reproduction is going to work in your given listening room.

So I really like the large CMT-340 SE bookshelf speakers. And they have a matching stand available that makes them LOOK like tower speakers ;)

Ascend's SE speakers are very accurate - so much so that they really sound (and are often used) as recording studio monitors. For MY money, they're the way I'd go at this price point. But that is MY taste, plus I don't mind the very plain, big black box looks :p

Regardless, if you decide to go with the KEF Classic Q series, I'm certainly not going to berate you or say that you made a "bad" choice. Quite the opposite! I'd give you a pat on the back and say congratulations for buying some good speakers that you've auditioned and liked a lot! They're a good choice, so if they "do it" for you, there's no reason to worry about it :)

If you haven't heard and compared many other speakers though, I'd recommend simply giving some of the speakers I've mentioned a try. I happen to like the Ascend CMT-340 SE speakers the most at this price point. I think the Infinity Primus speakers are a superb entry-level speaker for pretty much anyone, especially if you want to keep the price down. And you can't beat the looks, pleasing sound and output capabilities of the EMP Tek Impression speakers at this price point. And it's not like those are the only other options either - they're just speakers that I've heard personally, and I think are worth a listen at this price bracket :)

As for the sub, it sounds as though the total volume of open air (your "theater area" plus the kitchen to which that area is open) is around 19' x 28' or so, which is definitely a "large" space, getting up around 5000 cubic feet. That can be quite a challenge for a subwoofer, particularly if you're trying to keep the price down.

Personally, I'd be pointing you towards some very capable subs that come in around the $750 price range, once you factor in shipping. These would include the SVSound PB12-NSD or PC12-NSD (cylinder version) and HSU VTF-3 MK4 as my top choices. The VTF-3 MK4 is highly adjustable and might be a better choice if you listen to more music than movies. It gives you a lot of options for tuning the very low end output that the PB12-NSD does not offer. The PB12-NSD (or PC12-NSD cylinder) is an absolute champ for movies, IMO. You won't find a sub at this price point that plays flatter right down to 20Hz and STAYS flat, even as you crank up the volume. Plus, the PB/PC12-NSD is "unbreakable" thanks to its excellent limiters and filters in its Sledge amp. Like I say though, the VTF-3 MK4 gives you more tuning options, including the option to run it as a sealed sub, if you like. So if sheer output down at 20Hz isn't your #1 priority, the VTF-3 MK4 is the way to go in your room size :)

Hope that helps!
 
D

Drumbo

Audioholic Intern
now THATS a reply..

holy moly.

I have listened to the speaker selection at about 4 frys around me and 2 best buy magnolias, and one specialty shop where I there the kef700 and the paradign 100

I have heard klipsch(i liked the bright sound with MY music on the rf62), polk, def tech, bw, martin logan, one pair of jamo, energy

The energies sounded pretty ok too, the problem with best buy, they didnt let me put my own music on or turn up the volume even close to where I would listen to it

I was really considering the emp tek 55ti, but I was kinda hoping they would go on sale; i havent heard them, but have heard good things. I was considering aperion and ascend, but nowhere around me, or the emp teks has them for test drives

So you would take the emp tek 55ti over the kef iq90? BTW, i dont care about how they look
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
For subwoofers, if the OP wants raw output, I would look at the Epik Empire. That has a lot more overall output than the Hsu VTF3 or SVS PB12, and its only $100 more shipped. That would absolutely slam for the types of music that the OP listens too. If the OP can swing $100 more than that, the Hsu VTF15h would have similar monster output and at deeper frequencies too. It is a large subwoofer though, but then there aren't many good small ones (with a couple exceptions). If the choice is between a VTF3 and a PB12, I would swing for the VTF3 every time. More output, deeper extension, more sound customization, in my opinion the advantages of the VTF3 outweigh the advantages of the PB12. Next to the VTF3, I would go for the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX, which is similar to the VTF3, but lacks Q control and doesn't handle deep frequencies quite as well. But with the VTF3 and LFM being so close in price currently, there is no reason not to go for the VTF3. Given the OPs listening tastes, it would be well worth it to splurge for a good subwoofer (or two).
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
now THATS a reply..

holy moly.

I have listened to the speaker selection at about 4 frys around me and 2 best buy magnolias, and one specialty shop where I there the kef700 and the paradign 100

I have heard klipsch(i liked the bright sound with MY music on the rf62), polk, def tech, bw, martin logan, one pair of jamo, energy

The energies sounded pretty ok too, the problem with best buy, they didnt let me put my own music on or turn up the volume even close to where I would listen to it

I was really considering the emp tek 55ti, but I was kinda hoping they would go on sale; i havent heard them, but have heard good things. I was considering aperion and ascend, but nowhere around me, or the emp teks has them for test drives

So you would take the emp tek 55ti over the kef iq90? BTW, i dont care about how they look
Fry's recently had a absolutely killer sale on the Infinity Primus line: the p363s for $200 a pair. For that quality of speaker, there is nothing even close to being that good of a bang-for-the-buck deal. I do like the Klipsch Reference series myself, the RB61s and RB81s are terrific bookshelf speakers.

One thing I would advise is to not spend a lot on the surround speakers. In most soundtracks the surrounds aren't typically tasked to do much. I would certainly avoid bipole and dipole surround designs, they are more expensive than bookshelf speakers and lesser performing. Put your money in the front stage and subwoofer! Here is a bookshelf speaker that is inexpensive and more than adequate for surround duty: the BIC America DV62si, $110 for a pair, shipped! If you need wall mounts, the best affordable wall mounts are the AM40 Pinpoint side-clamping wall mounts, nothing else is near as good for the price, trust me on this one.
 
D

Drumbo

Audioholic Intern
So I picked up the iq10's and a pair of the iq90's- $800 total, not bad I would say.

Any advice of the best receivers for this set?
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
So you would take the emp tek 55ti over the kef iq90? BTW, i dont care about how they look
Given what you said about liking the "brighter" sound of the Klipsch RF series speakers, and given that you like the sound of the KEF Uni-Q speakers that you heard, I would say that the EMP Tek E55Ti might not be your cup of tea. They're kind of the opposite of the louder, more noticable treble with either of the speakers you've liked in your auditions, with notably rolled off and laid back treble. So while I still think they're very good speakers for the price and a great choice for a lot of people, I have rather strong doubts that they'd be to your particular taste.

What I've often found - at least in my experience - is that people who are drawn to the Klipsch sound during a store demo are people who are impressed by and are looking for a greater sense of "detail" in the music. That experience where higher frequency details "stand out" and you get to say, "oh, I've never heard that before! Cool!" And it IS a very fun and exciting experience.

The only thing I would warn against, and this is NOT a knock against the Klipsch RF speakers, since they are well regarded speakers, but the only thing I would warn to be mindful of is that sometimes, during a relatively short demo, a certain sound will come across as very impressive. It makes your ears prick up and you take notice, which is a difficult impulse to ignore. But over the long haul, when you're living with a pair of speakers for a long time, you can start to notice more subtle nuances, or you can start to pick apart the areas where a speaker isn't sounding quite as good as you might have liked.

What I'm driving at is simply that it's important to take note of what you find immediately impressive during a demo, but to temper that excitement with the knowledge that sometimes, when things stand out during a demo, it's because they're a little overblown. So once you're living with that sound for a long time, you can start to notice that other areas of the sound might be a little lacking, but you didn't notice them during the demo because some other area that impressed you really stood out and grabbed your attention.

For you in particular, Drumbo, since you seem to take note of high frequency detail, that's an important trait to look for and pursue, but you also want to make sure that all of the other nuance in the other frequency ranges is still there, and that the balance and transition from bass to midrange to treble all flows smoothly and seemlessly - which is a bit of a quibble that I have with the Klipsch RF speakers, where I feel the transitions between drivers are just a touch less than seemless.

I don't want to harp on it, but I come back to the Ascend CMT-340 SE speakers. While their high frequency output might not grab your attention quite as strongly right away as the Klipsch horn-loaded tweeter or the KEF Uni-Q coaxial drivers, they are still very highly detailed and well extended into the highest audible frequencies. There's no roll off like with the EMP towers, so I think you'd like them a bit better. But over the long haul, I think you'd come to appreciate them more than the Klipsch RF speakers - the KEF speakers are a tougher comparison and decision, I'm not sure which ones you'd prefer over the long haul.

Like I said earlier, the thing that really impresses me most about the Ascend SE speakers is the SEAS tweeter and its ability to delineate between notes, which is a real step above the price competition and something I don't usually hear until I get to considerably higher priced speakers. Since you seem to be drawn to high frequency detail, I think that is something you would really enjoy - especially over the long haul. That great transient response and delineation is what allows you to listen "into" your music and really start to pick apart nuances and small details in the recordings. Speakers like the Klipsch RF might make certain details stand out more right away, but they can also tend to become a bit fatiguing during long listening sessions. And while the attack of notes comes through very clear and obviously, the more subtle nuance of the decays and delineation between notes is notably better with the Ascend SE SEAS tweeter, IMO :)

And just to remark on shadyJ's suggestions: I don't disagree with the sub recommendations. I was just trying to keep the price tag as low as possible while still getting you sufficient output for your room size. Going more expensive and larger is certainly not a bad idea ;) I think if you were to settle on an HSU VTF-3 MK4 though, you'd find pretty much everyone in agreement that it would be an excellent choice for your room and listening preferences :)

In regards to surround speakers, I agree that they are far less important than your front 3 speakers and having a perfect and seemless sonic match across the front soundstage. I do not agree that di-pole or bi-pole surrounds are never worth it, though, or that they are "lesser performing". It's mostly dependant on your room, your positioning within the room, and the content to which you listen. If you are in an enclosed, rectangular room and you mostly listen to movies, I find a properly placed and set up di-pole surround to be ideal at recreating the multiple surround speakers that you would find in a commercial movie theater. I find bi-poles work nicely to create an enveloping surround field in more open room layouts. Placed 2-3 feet above seated height and a little ways behind the listening position, bi-pole surrounds work really nicely, I find, and draw less attention to themselves than regular monopole surrounds.

That said, properly set up (which is up high and NOT pointed toward the listening position in any way) monopole surrounds can work well too. I'm a fan of diffuse surrounds, so I don't agree with shadyJ on that front. But I'm not against using regular monopoles. It's really all just a matter of proper setup and placement regardless of the speaker type :)
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Last edited:
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