Dual Legends?

[ahblaza]

Hello to all,
I am considering the purchase of a second Epik Legend used, I purchased my original new and am very pleased with it, my room is 14' X 16' and open at the rear to a computer room. Like I said I am really impressed with the single Legend but after spending so much time here I think dual subs would be more appropriate. I was inititially going to sell the Legend and get an Empire but thought that two smaller subs would be better than one bigger one. I was going to buy new but got an offer on a mint Legend for $350 shipped. I would appreciate all thoughts and suggestions from all. Thanks.
Jeff

 

[fuzz092888]

If you're satisfied with the bass you get with the legend I'd say pick up another. Having two of the things can only give you better, more even bass across the listening positions. I'd think you'd need at least two of the legends anyways if the room is open to another. That is, unless you feel like getting two empires

 

[timoteo]

Agreed, if you are happy with 1 then 2 can be very nice! At that price of $350 it's really a no-brainer haha!!

However, just placing 2 subs in a room won't give you better bass for sure. You need to make sure both subs are properly located & setup in order to get improved bass over a single sub. In fact, 2 badly placed subs can sound worse than 1 sub due to frequency cancellation even if 1 of the subs is placed wrong. So if you get the second Legend, MAKE SURE to do the bass crawl & locate 2 good spots not just 1. Then make sure you test each of the phase combination options to make sure that the subs are helping eachother out & not fighting against eachother. It can take a lot of trial & error but dual subs can resp some very nice improvements over a single sub!!!

I had dual identical subs previously. I found out that 1 was in a null & was hurting the overall bass. I moved it to a better spot I found, adjusted the phase & it was a night/day improvement!

Let us know your choice, post some pics & give us your impressions!!...you know your gonna get it

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Hello to all,
I am considering the purchase of a second Epik Legend used, I purchased my original new and am very pleased with it, my room is 14' X 16' and open at the rear to a computer room. Like I said I am really impressed with the single Legend but after spending so much time here I think dual subs would be more appropriate. I was inititially going to sell the Legend and get an Empire but thought that two smaller subs would be better than one bigger one. I was going to buy new but got an offer on a mint Legend for $350 shipped. I would appreciate all thoughts and suggestions from all. Thanks.
Jeff

Go for it. If you feel it is unnecessary afterwards sell it for the same amount.

 

[ahblaza]

Agreed, if you are happy with 1 then 2 can be very nice! At that price of $350 it's really a no-brainer haha!!

However, just placing 2 subs in a room won't give you better bass for sure. You need to make sure both subs are properly located & setup in order to get improved bass over a single sub. In fact, 2 badly placed subs can sound worse than 1 sub due to frequency cancellation even if 1 of the subs is placed wrong. So if you get the second Legend, MAKE SURE to do the bass crawl & locate 2 good spots not just 1. Then make sure you test each of the phase combination options to make sure that the subs are helping eachother out & not fighting against eachother. It can take a lot of trial & error but dual subs can resp some very nice improvements over a single sub!!!

I had dual identical subs previously. I found out that 1 was in a null & was hurting the overall bass. I moved it to a better spot I found, adjusted the phase & it was a night/day improvement!

Let us know your choice, post some pics & give us your impressions!!...you know your gonna get it

Thanks Timo for chiming in my friend, I see a lot of setups where dual subs are located in opposite corners of the front wall, (good or no), I'm not ashamed to say that I am fairly ignorant of placing dual subs or have the energy at my age to be crawling around and trial and erroring. I did do that somewhat with the single Legend and was pretty easy to find the best spot and phase at 0. That spot was near the right front corner with right driver about 20" angled from the wall. Would it not be OK to do that on the opposite left front wall? I probably as you say should try moving the second Legend around maybe out into the room and playing with the phase. Any suggestions how to start this process ( take into account my ignorance)? you are right I'm gonna get it, I need help though. Thanks again Timo.
Jeff

 

[ahblaza]

Timo, I will do some research in the interim.

 

[j_garcia]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/65220-home-theater-multiple-subwoofer-set-up-calibration-guide.html

 

[timoteo]

Well if crawling around is tough then try a few things. You say the Legend is currently in the front right corner so try placing the second sub in the rear left corner. A lot of times having the subs across the room in opposite corners is good. Or try both up front in front left & right corners. If you don't want to do the bass crawl then just try different configurations to see which sounds best. EVERY room is different so there is no saying where to put it without seeing the room. Lots of variables!!

 

[ahblaza]

Well if crawling around is tough then try a few things. You say the Legend is currently in the front right corner so try placing the second sub in the rear left corner. A lot of times having the subs across the room in opposite corners is good. Or try both up front in front left & right corners. If you don't want to do the bass crawl then just try different configurations to see which sounds best. EVERY room is different so there is no saying where to put it without seeing the room. Lots of variables!!

I hear you brother, I will put some effort into this as you say there is a lot of variables, but the one constant is my ears and I will adjust accordingly.
Jeff

 

[ahblaza]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/65220-home-theater-multiple-subwoofer-set-up-calibration-guide.html

Thanks John, appreciate. I know where you have your Empire in your room, if you had another Empire, with your experience with Epik's where would you start to place your second Empire? I realize this is an unrealistic question but would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks.
Jeff

 

[j_garcia]

I would pretty much mirror what Timoteo is saying. The first place I'd try would be the opposite corner, which I don't really have in my current room. Next best thought would be stacked on top of the current one. That would likely be the easiest to calibrate, but obviously is not the best looking or easiest to do.

 

[timoteo]

On average if you have 2 identical subs in 2 different locations you will gain 3dBs in volume compared to the single sub. But you will smoothen out the response, meaning you will have less peaks/valleys across the bass frequencies. This is all IF you place them apart correctly in your room.

Then if you stack the subs or have them side-by-side (co-located) you will gain 6dBs of volume compared to the single sub. However you will not change the peaks/valleys you currently have.

If you are getting a good response with your single sub & just want more slam then co-locating is a good option. This is also good if you typically watch movies alone or with 1other person next to you.

If you watch with more people & they are spread around the room more then having the subs apart will give cleaner bass across a larger part of the room.

Have you ever walked around your room while some bass heavy music was playing? You'll notice that the bass gets stronger/weaker at different areas. Closer to walls=boomier, middle of room=weak. These modes won't change with them stacked. Now, seperate the subs (correctly) & those areas won't be so dramatic. Place 4 subs correctly in a room & those modes can nearly disappear!

 

[ahblaza]

I would pretty much mirror what Timoteo is saying. The first place I'd try would be the opposite corner, which I don't really have in my current room. Next best thought would be stacked on top of the current one. That would likely be the easiest to calibrate, but obviously is not the best looking or easiest to do.

John, I also don't have an opposite corner, I do but well beyond my listening area about 10' behind. I really don't like the stacking option although that can be achieved easily. I will thouroghly read the article and try different approaches, I really thought I could put the second sub upfront in left front corner. I will also take Timo's suggestions as well. Thanks
Jeff

 

[ahblaza]

On average if you have 2 identical subs in 2 different locations you will gain 3dBs in volume compared to the single sub. But you will smoothen out the response, meaning you will have less peaks/valleys across the bass frequencies. This is all IF you place them apart correctly in your room.

Then if you stack the subs or have them side-by-side (co-located) you will gain 6dBs of volume compared to the single sub. However you will not change the peaks/valleys you currently have.

If you are getting a good response with your single sub & just want more slam then co-locating is a good option. This is also good if you typically watch movies alone or with 1other person next to you.

If you watch with more people & they are spread around the room more then having the subs apart will give cleaner bass across a larger part of the room.

Have you ever walked around your room while some bass heavy music was playing? You'll notice that the bass gets stronger/weaker at different areas. Closer to walls=boomier, middle of room=weak. These modes won't change with them stacked. Now, seperate the subs (correctly) & those areas won't be so dramatic. Place 4 subs correctly in a room & those modes can nearly disappear!

Tim, I do have in my opinion a good response but I don't really like the co-locating idea, and it will be usually myself and occassionally my wife. I don't have a problem with putting the sub in an opposite location as you mentioned. I will cue up some heavy bass music and move around the room and try to determine the stronger versus the weaker scheme. I thought the Legend having dual drivers that at least one of them should fire into a wall, correct me if I'm wrong. I know I'm making a big deal out of this because I would really just like to put it where it's convenient, in the opposite front corner of the original Legend, it would look good there but at the expense of the modes you talked about. Where the LFE comes from the single Legend is not localized and seems to blend well with the mains, I thought just putting another one along the front opposite corner would give more output if I leveled both subs accordingly. Thanks my man for all your help, I will make a move here and let you know what I came up with.
Jeff

 

[timoteo]

Hey bud I'm here to help if I can! but remember that these are guidlines that I'm talking about & nothing is in stone. If co-locating is not for you then by all means take another route. I just wanted to educate you on some of your options & the effects of said choices.

I love audio as much as the next guy but I agree that to an extent, aesthetics do play a part in where my equipment (including subs) are placed. So if I were you, I would try having the subs up front in the 2 seperate corners. Get them dialed in as much as possible...trim, phase etc...& see how they sound. Just be aware that if only 1 of the 2 subs is placed in a bad spot, aka null, then it will negatively effect the bass making it worse than a single sub. So caution is needed along with some patience & a willingness to try other options. I don't want this to sound like integrating dual subs is a total PITA, I just want you to get your system running tip-top!!

If the subs sound good up front then leave them there for a while, relax & enjoy!! Then down the road, when you feel like messing around, try moving the subs around & see if other locations sound better. That's 1 approach option.

If it were me, I would place my current sub on the main listening seat, literally. Then I'd play some test tones or bass heavy music. I'd walk to every location that I'd be willing to place a sub, kneel down at that spot & listen. One at a time I'd test each spot, if you have an SPL meter even better. Have that in hand & take a measure of the output at those spots. Just find 2 spots that sound the best (powerful/detailed not weak or bloated) Then I would place a sub in each of those spots, try each of the 4 phase options to determine the best settings, then run my auto calibration (Audessey, YPAO, MCACC etc) & then fine tune the settings. This way your not "crawling" around because nobody enjoys that no matter age haha!!!

You may find that the subs up front do excellent. As long as your getting an improvement over the single Legend then your doing good. I just don't want a decrease in performance & I know you don't either. To be honest, once you have the subs, it just takes a little fiddling to get right. A couple placement options should get you there. Your half way there by knowing where 1sub sounds good. Now just find another spot that compliments the other Remember to have fun in the process

 

[ahblaza]

Thanks so much Timo, the way you explained that makes sense and clarifies so many points, I was really intimidated before your post, I feel confident that I can achieve the results you describe, I do have a SPL meter and like the idea of measuring the output at different locations, I know I can kneel at least. I can't begin to express my gratitude for your very effective explanation of how to do this and for taking the time to help me with this endeavor, many thanks my friend.
Jeff