Crown pro amps on sale at Amazon - which should I get?

[strube]

BTW, have you guys seen the Lexicon DD-8 amp? It's the same as the Crown CT8150 DriveCore amp.

Just for fun.

They're only $2500 each.

DD-8 Details | Lexicon

Crown CT8150 ComTech DriveCore 8-Channel Power Amp, 125W @ 8 Ohms per Channel | Full Compass

That's just insane...

 

[Irvrobinson]

Peter Aczel would say that they may not have SNR of -110dB or XTalk of -90dB, but they will sound every bit as good.

They won't look as good and they won't have 12v triggers. But the Audio Critic would say they will sound as good.

I knew you'd bring up your cranky hero, but haven't you found it interesting that while he says this or that wouldn't be audible, he buys and uses only what has the absolute best measured performance, even if it has rather substantial usability challenges?

Anyway, how can you give Aczel so much credibility with you when he's spent the past several years saying no box speaker from any vendor approaches the sound quality of the Orion, and you know better?

[Disclaimer - I generally agree with the positions Aczel touts. I just have trouble saluting any flag.]

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I knew you'd bring up your cranky hero, but haven't you found it interesting that while he says this or that wouldn't be audible, he buys and uses only what has the absolute best measured performance, even if it has rather substantial usability challenges?

Anyway, how can you give Aczel so much credibility with you when he's spent the past several years saying no box speaker from any vendor approaches the sound quality of the Orion, and you know better?

[Disclaimer - I generally agree with the positions Aczel touts. I just have trouble saluting any flag.]

I'm just as guilty.

Honestly, the first thing I looked at on the Crown DriveCore was XTalk & SNR.

-103dB SNR & -85dB XT is good enough for me. I've seen plenty of expensive amps with worse SNR & XT.

Next thing is the noise floor. Will check tonight and see if it is dead silent like the ATI amps.

Yeah, I don't agree with Aczel that the Orions are the best there is either. Nothing is that black & white.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's just insane...

Just to show that Crown makes some "high-end" stuffs too.

They are Harman after all - the same company as Revel, JBL, Mark Levinson, and Lexicon.

 

[Adam]

Nothing is that black & white.

You didn't manage to talk me into buying an amp, but you just succeeded in making me crave an Oreo.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You didn't manage to talk me into buying an amp, but you just succeeded in making me crave an Oreo.

I'm buying some black & white Oreo cookies after work.

Man, I'm easy.

 

[DS-21]

I knew you'd bring up your cranky hero, but haven't you found it interesting that while he says this or that wouldn't be audible, he buys and uses only what has the absolute best measured performance, even if it has rather substantial usability challenges?

I'm curious what you're describing here. But I don't think that much matters. All of us do the same thing. We like nice things.

Anyway, how can you give Aczel so much credibility with you when he's spent the past several years saying no box speaker from any vendor approaches the sound quality of the Orion, and you know better?

I can answer that one: getting it right on commodity parts like amps or digital sources is entirely different from getting it right on things that do actually differ from one another.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I can answer that one: getting it right on commodity parts like amps or digital sources is entirely different from getting it right on things that do actually differ from one another.

Of course, but that wasn't my point. It is simply my opinion that Aczel's hyperbole about the Orion erodes his credibility. And I for one do not believe that all amplifiers or digital sources are just interchangeable commodities like feed corn. My Sony Blue Ray player, for example, is very disappointing in its performance. I have a Samsung DVD player that sounds terrible on CDs (I don't have the measuring equipment to figure out why), and some of us have discussed how some power amps can produce an annoying audible hiss through speakers. I'll grant you that a greater proportion of electronics these days are well-designed and good performing than is likely the case with speakers, but I think it's an exaggeration to refer to electronics as commodities yet.

 

[DS-21]

Of course, but that wasn't my point. It is simply my opinion that Aczel's hyperbole about the Orion erodes his credibility.

Well, one could say the same about some other review websites, which seem unduly biased towards some thoroughly mediocre speaker brands. But being not terribly useful on speakers doesn't make a source less reliable on commodity electronic parts. Or obvious scams, such as audiophool wires.

And I for one do not believe that all amplifiers or digital sources are just interchangeable commodities like feed corn.

My hunch is that there's far more variation in feed corn than there is in the performance of audio electronics parts...

(Though in fairness I don't do animals. My lands are in cotton most of the year and wheat or sunflower oil for the remainder. There are certainly more material variations in cotton - staple length, microaire, etc. - than there are in audio electronics parts!)

I have a Samsung DVD player that sounds terrible on CDs (I don't have the measuring equipment to figure out why),

Perhaps it's broken. FWIW, I and three friends were unable to distinguish a Samsung SACD/DVD-A/DVD/CD player on CD's from a mighty Meridian 508.20 factory upgraded to 508.24 spec. And if anyone makes technically basically perfect digital audio gear, it's Bob Stuart of Meridian. The price difference was $60 for the cheap Sammy vs. $4k+ all in (508.20 new, plus upgrades) for the 508.20.

Though in the Meridian piece's defense, it's been going strong for its owner for over 15 years (pre- and post- upgrade) whereas the Sammy lasted I think 4 years before croaking.

 

[ahblaza]

Hi, Jeff. I suppose festering "hatred" was a bit strong , but my experiences with the amps and the company left me with some bad feelings. I was extremely mad back in 2007 when I bought mine due to quality problems and how I was treated by the company (and even left this forum for about six months because of it). I don't know how early that was for adopting them, though. I know that others had similar problems back then, but a lot of people seem to like them. I personally can't get past those multiple bad experiences and won't ever think to buy from them or recommend them, but I am honestly happy for all of those who are happy with their gear.

Adam, I think you were the first person I PM'd about EMO amps when I first came around here, your experiences were a bit frightening, I did purchase one two years later and since sold it and got what I paid for it, it arrived with no output on left channel but customer service shipped a new one out and paid return shipping of the original. I really can't say anything negative about EMO as I know many satisfied owners. Back to the Crown 1000, I have one in my cart as we speak at Zsounds for $254 delivered and four easy payments of $64 a month interest free, that plan of payment is available for all their merchandise, so skip the oreos and buy the amp.
Jeff

 

[strube]

I got my amp installed. It looks pretty in my rack and seems pretty solid. The Amazon packer failed miserably - one piece of brown paper in a box twice the size of the amp box. It works fine so far though.

I set it up on switched outlets on my power center with the 12v trigger on the AVR and that seemed to work fine. The only thing I don't really like is that my power center has 6 switched outlets and 4 unswitched (which are all occupied by the HTPC, AVR, remote repeater, and ethernet switch) and it would be much nicer if it were the other way around. I don't like cutting the power to my blu-ray and xbox because I sometimes put in my discs before turning other stuff on. I will have to get used to switching on the AVR before putting discs in...

I set my gain on the amp and my test tone levels in the AVR to around 75dB with the SPL meter. I will probably run Audyssey again some time, but I am good for now.

The amp is silent and definitely effortless. I won't probably notice a huge difference until I listen to some fancy stereo audio, but now I have a separate amp which I have always wanted.

The only thing that annoyed me with it is that it has plugs in the binding posts so you can't use banana plugs since the spacing must be very near that of Euro power plugs. The manual made me think they are just for the euro version but this is what I have apparently, and it came with a US power cord so... I haven't looked into removing them but I will. For now they are just hooked up the old-school bare-wire style.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The only thing that annoyed me with it is that it has plugs in the binding posts so you can't use banana plugs

I used a mini screw driver and removed those damn plugs immediately by wiggling them out. Not very difficult. I used BJC locking banana plugs.

"The binding post outputs have a plastic tab covering the banana plug connection because some European power connectors will fit into those plugs (that would be bad of course). If you wish to use banana connectors remove those tabs.

Crown suggest using a small screw like a drywall screw to thread into the tab a turn or two, then pull the tab out with the screw. Of course, do this only while the amp is off and unplugged, and be careful not to damage any other part of the connector."

http://www.proaudiosupport.com/a42454/crown-xti-series-amp.html

 

[strube]

I used a mini screw driver and removed those damn plugs immediately by wiggling them out. Not very difficult. I used BJC locking banana plugs.

Doh! I didn't even try. I will do that tomorrow after I re-strip and re-assemble my plugs. Thanks!

I just use monoprice plugs cause I am cheap.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Doh! I didn't even try. I will do that tomorrow after I re-strip and re-assemble my plugs. Thanks!

I just use monoprice plugs cause I am cheap.

Yeah, pretty simple to do.

I'm very pleased how quiet and cool these Crown XLS amps are even after several hours of use. I recall the hiss on my previous Emotiva amp ($1700 MPS-2) was actually louder than the XLS DriveCore amps. Very nice indeed.

 

[jinjuku]

The only thing that annoyed me with it is that it has plugs in the binding posts so you can't use banana plugs since the spacing must be very near that of Euro power plugs.

Those caps are a PITA to remove. Now you guys wonder why I looked poleaxed when I see people drop $4500 on 5 channels of amplification. Lets face it good sounding amplification has been figured out for a while now regardless of Class D.

Class D stuff wasn't out there to fix any SQ issues. Just weight and efficiency. These were the last two problem areas for amplification and the beasts have been slain.

When I don't see companies like AB International and Emotiva coming out with Class D stuff I start to worry. This is the new Emperor. But then again you are always going to have some moron that when sighted will swear up and down their pair of $4K monoblocks are night and day.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Those caps are a PITA to remove. Now you guys wonder why I looked poleaxed when I see people drop $4500 on 5 channels of amplification. Lets face it good sounding amplification has been figured out for a while now regardless of Class D.

Class D stuff wasn't out there to fix any SQ issues. Just weight and efficiency. These were the last two problem areas for amplification and the beasts have been slain.

When I don't see companies like AB International and Emotiva coming out with Class D stuff I start to worry. This is the new Emperor. But then again you are always going to have some moron that when sighted will swear up and down their pair of $4K monoblocks are night and day.

Yup. There are still many guys who claim they can hear a difference between any two amps in perfect working condition playing within the normal limits and volume matched - whether it's class A/B vs D vs H vs anything. They claim that "pro amps" just don't sound as good as amps from Emotiva or other "home" amps. Oh, well. You can never change their minds. I won't even try.

To me, as long as my pro amps are hidden (behind my front racks) or dressed up (transplanted into a more pleasing chassis), it's all peachy. They sound exactly the same to me.