What is the importance of an amplifier, really?

[mtrycrafts]

If his numbers were for 1 meter from the speakers then at 4 meters away, that 105 dB would be reduced to 93 dB with no room gain. ....

That would be true in a very large room, like a theater (not home)or out doors as that is where the 6 dB applies for each doubling of distance, not in small rooms like most of us have.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...Is there something I'm missing? ....

Yes, your funds spent on those amps

 

[D Bone]

Mark me down as one who can't hear the difference between my Onkyo 709's amp, and my Emotiva amp. I listen to BDs around -7 to -5 even when I'm alone. With my wife and kids, we listen at -10.

 

[PENG]

That would be true in a very large room, like a theater (not home)or out doors as that is where the 6 dB applies for each doubling of distance, not in small rooms like most of us have.

Of course, but that's why I cited my example of a 3 db room gain in that post. The actual gain will obviously depend on the specific room.

 

[etecnifibre]

Yes, your funds spent on those amps

LOL, thanks, you are probably right, but, I have a money tree, so I'm not really missing it. I AM missing my upstairs system though. Tomorrow, the TV comes down, the amps come out, and I'm hooking back into the receiver. And by money tree, I mean, working my *** off hauling scrap metal. 77 tons last year and 35 tons so far this year. Glamorous, huh? My 2700sq ft house will be paid off in 6 years. I'm 37!

 

[Bryceo]

Just get a good one

 

[mtrycrafts]

LOL, thanks, you are probably right, but, I have a money tree, ...!

In that case, send me a clipping My yard is big enough to plant.

 

[DS-21]

In my room I do sit at about 4m from my front speakers and I lost 8 to 9 dB SPL. I do not consider that irrelevant at all. Your room is going to yield a different room gain. Perhaps DS-21's room gain is much more significant than mine.

My point was simply that the anechoic/outdoors falloff curves simply aren't' relevant in a room that includes both direct field and reverberant field. If you've actually measured differences in SPL around your room, then obviously you should go with what you've measured.

(And if you need big SPL, big amps is the dumber of the two options, the other being more efficient speakers.)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Mark me down as one who can't hear the difference between my Onkyo 709's amp, and my Emotiva amp.

You, me, and a million other guys (although they won't admit it).

 

[Irvrobinson]

(And if you need big SPL, big amps is the dumber of the two options, the other being more efficient speakers.)

Perhaps, but considering the relative dearth of high quality, high efficiency alternatives out there in speakers, and the rising power (and efficiency) of amplifiers, it looks like the "dumbness gap" is narrowing.

 

[DS-21]

Perhaps, but considering the relative dearth of high quality, high efficiency alternatives out there in speakers, and the rising power (and efficiency) of amplifiers, it looks like the "dumbness gap" is narrowing.

I disagree on the former (alternatives), though the latter is true. Still, inefficient speaker + big power just means more thermal compression, and thus less true-to-life dynamic shading (both micro and macro).

 

[Irvrobinson]

In my room I do sit at about 4m from my front speakers and I lost 8 to 9 dB SPL. I do not consider that irrelevant at all. Your room is going to yield a different room gain. Perhaps DS-21's room gain is much more significant than mine.

Just for comparison, using the OmniMic to measure at one meter from the speaker at my ear height and at my listening position at ear height, c-weighted using monophonic pink noise, I'm seeing a difference of about 5db.

 

[cpp]

You, me, and a million other guys (although they won't admit it).

Beat ya to it...

I equate a lot of these audio add on's to buying the next best fishing lure. It's there to catch the fishermen and in this case the Audio whatever you call the person, Audiophile, Audio nut, etc....

 

[Irvrobinson]

Beat ya to it...

I equate a lot of these audio add on's to buying the next best fishing lure. It's there to catch the fishermen and in this case the Audio whatever you call the person, Audiophile, Audio nut, etc....

Perhaps, but you've just described ATDG's behavior.

While I agree with the spirit of this thread, I think we're getting a little carried away. There are still very measurable differences between amplifiers that can be audible depending on what your speakers and listening conditions are. DS-21 may chide us all for being so stupid for not buying 100db+/2.83v/m speakers that are easy amplifier loads, but the fact remains that many of us don't own speakers like that, have large rooms, and listen at live music levels, so amp choice does matter. That aside, if you have a 12'x15' room and modest 90db/2.83v 8 ohm speakers, I agree that just about any well-designed 100w+/ch amp will probably be indistinguishable from any other amp, even of vastly superior specifications, especially if you're using one or more separately powered subs and bass management.

 

[PENG]

My point was simply that the anechoic/outdoors falloff curves simply aren't' relevant in a room that includes both direct field and reverberant field. If you've actually measured differences in SPL around your room, then obviously you should go with what you've measured.

(And if you need big SPL, big amps is the dumber of the two options, the other being more efficient speakers.)

We can agree to disagree as your point is that it is not relevant and my point is that while one cannot use it as a formula to accurately predict one's SPL at a given distance in one's room, it is definitely relevant as long as one factors in one's room gain at a specific location. In a sense it is just a starting point that should not be dismissed as though it is not "relevant" or "insignificant", if perhaps we prefer a better word, when considering power/spl requirements. May be it is just how we interpret the word "relevant" differently so I should just move on to other less boring stuff.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think we all believe there are rare cases where the amp is being over driven due to speakers, room, SPL, and thus have audible distortion.

There are also cases where the amp has high noise floor and loud fan noise and other hums that will introduce audible distortion.

But when the amp is none of those ill - cases, the amp will not have any sound of it's own.

As for me, I do like some of the finer things in life whether they make an audible difference or not.

And for the record, I ain't no fisherman. Please.

 

[cpp]

As for me, I do like some of the finer things in life whether they make an audible difference or not.

Me to and whatever sounds go to my ears is ok with me regardless what those folks who preach measurement of this or that. When I place equipment in my home (s) if it sounds good with my music, cool if it doesn't I find something that will as I don't find it a big deal as some do. Hell it's audio for Gods sake, it's not a cure for a cold or a solution for world peace.

And yes I am a fishermen, I'm also retired and I'm freaking loving it

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

whatever sounds go to my ears is ok with me regardless what those folks who preach measurement of this or that.

That is the most important.

Hell it's audio for Gods sake, it's not a cure for a cold or a solution for world peace.

True. It's just a hobby for fun.

And yes I am a fishermen, I'm also retired and I'm freaking loving it

I'm always afraid of that pointy hook - like it might hook my finger or eye or something.