Pre-pro vs AVR again

[AcuDefTechGuy]

HTM just reviewed some high-end pre-pros. So I wanted to compare pre-pro vs AVR, again.

THD%/ Crosstalk/ SNR:

Parasound Halo P7 : 0.025/ 90.29/ 120.48
McIntosh MX121: 0.015/ 88/ 125.6
Cary Audio 12: 0.025/ 92/ 121
Classe CT-SSP: 0.007/ 102/ 122

Yamaha RX-A1010: 0.007/ 97/ 108.9

Conclusion: AVRs can measure as well and even better than some high-end pre-pros.

 

[3db]

HTM just reviewed some high-end pre-pros. So I wanted to compare pre-pro vs AVR, again.

THD%/ Crosstalk/ SNR:

Parasound Halo P7 : 0.025/ 90.29/ 120.48
McIntosh MX121: 0.015/ 88/ 125.6
Cary Audio 12: 0.025/ 92/ 121
Classe CT-SSP: 0.007/ 102/ 122

Yamaha RX-A1010: 0.007/ 97/ 108.9

Conclusion: AVRs can measure as well and even better than some high-end pre-pros.

Sure they can but what is the point to your post? All of these have impressive specs and none of them are slouches. All of them fall well below the threshold of hearing. Eliminating any one of them on specs alone isn't going to tell you whether or not your going to end up liking the device you choose. There's so much more than numbers at this point such as aesthetics, ease of use, resale, etc.

 

[billy p]

Useful or meaningful stats or just a bunch of meaningless numbers....

 

[Irvrobinson]

Useful or meaningful stats or just a bunch of meaningless numbers....

IMHO, as single values like this, mostly meaningless numbers. All of these vary by frequency or power level or other factors, so you need more complete measurements to get a better comparison.

That said, I doubt there are readily audible differences between any of these components. Any differences I've ever noticed between electronics have been of a very subtle nature, that usually manifested itself in how long I wanted my listening sessions to be. The better the longer. (Yeah, I know, that sounds dumb.)

 

[cpp]

Sure a AVR can measure as well as a pre-pro, but if a person wants to purchase a pre-pro, cool..

There's so much more than numbers at this point such as aesthetics, ease of use, resale, etc.

agree

 

[jonnythan]

I don't understand why someone like Denon or Onkyo doesn't release a budget pre-pro.

Take the 2112, remove the amp sections, sell it with an MSRP of $399.

 

[Adam]

I don't understand why someone like Denon or Onkyo doesn't release a budget pre-pro.

My guess - they've done the math and the profit margins just aren't there. They can probably sell a receiver with the same features and internal amps for less than the cost of a pre-pro because of economies of scale. The majority of customers don't want separates, so they make a lot of receivers...which drives down the unit cost.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What is the cheapest pre-pro on the market? The Marantz? Or Integra? Or Emotiva. Street price, of course.

 

[jcl]

What is the cheapest pre-pro on the market? The Marantz? Or Integra? Or Emotiva. Street price, of course.

Stereo or 7.1?
For stereo I think Parasound's z-pre ~$400 is pretty low.

For 7.1 I think Emotiva's UMC-1 ~ $500 would be it.

 

[lsiberian]

I personally prefer a receiver I don't need external amps for my surrounds.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Stereo or 7.1?
For stereo I think Parasound's z-pre ~$400 is pretty low.

For 7.1 I think Emotiva's UMC-1 ~ $500 would be it.

Yeah, I meant 7.1.

I thought the UMC-1 was discontinued due to all those problems?

 

[DS-21]

I don't understand why someone like Denon or Onkyo doesn't release a budget pre-pro.

Take the 2112, remove the amp sections, sell it with an MSRP of $399.

It would be more expensive.

Think of an AVR without the amps as as the audio equivalent as an "added lightness" club sport version of a car with standard options deleted. (Porsche has offered such models, as have a few of the other more serious automakers.) The "club sport" version is generally more expensive* than the base model of that car.

*The only exception of which I am aware is that in 2002 Mazda offered a CS version of the Miata for a few bucks cheaper than a base model. However, it was pretty clearly a loss-leader, to homologate the CS for racing and exploit some loophole. In fact, one couldn't even buy one first-hand without an SCCA license.

 

[fuzz092888]

I think you are dumb and that no matter what you get it will be useless because you haven't purchased the correct DAC, thereby negating any real usefulness that any piece of junk AVR or pre-pro you buy will provide

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think you are dumb and that no matter what you get it will be useless because you haven't purchased the correct DAC, thereby negating any real usefulness that any piece of junk AVR or pre-pro you buy will provide

Thank you, Solid-state.

 

[Adam]

Thank you, Solid-state.

Nah, that couldn't be the same person.

Did you hear me?

It's like you're not even paying attention. I said,

It COULDN'T BE the same person.

But, seriously, sorry if I upset anyone. Just here to learn and share what I know.

 

[walter duque]

As you can tell I am not up to date with Pre-pros

Onkyo AVR late 90's (5channel) Retail $1250.00
Atlantic Technologies P2000 (rebadged Outlaw 950) Retail $1800.00
Rotel 1066 Retail don't remember
B&K Ref 50 S2 Retail $3000.00

SQ wise I would say the rebadged Outlaw which was around $950.00 at that time did sound a little better (at least to my ears, might also have been that I used a Nakamichi DVD 10S as my source instead on a Sony Blu Ray player) seemed to have a little more fire at top end. The Onkyo AVR pre-outs, Rotel, B&K I couldn't tell any difference in SQ. One thing is for sure, I would never spend 3k on a Pre-pro again.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Nah, that couldn't be the same person.

Did you hear me?

It's like you're not even paying attention. I said,

It COULDN'T BE the same person.

But, seriously, sorry if I upset anyone. Just here to learn and share what I know.

Are you getting paid to say that?

How dishonest of you. Misleading people. You know it's the same. What? Idiots!

I was just trying to help you, man.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

One thing is for sure, I would never spend 3k on a Pre-pro again.

I agree completely.

I would even say $2K is the highest price I'm willing to spend on any pre-pro, preferably around $1.5K.

 

[fuzz092888]

I would even say $2K is the highest price I'm willing to spend on any pre-pro, preferably around $1.5K.

Funny you should mention that, the DAC that I mentioned that will absolutely blow your mind with how much better it is than those crappy AVRs you've got cluttering up your room is $1845 and is made by a VERY HONEST MAN!!!!

If you're not blown away I'll run down the street................naked..............with your face tattooed on my hind quarters, your face on one cheek and the audioholics logo on the other

 

[Warpdrv]

I agree completely.

I would even say $2K is the highest price I'm willing to spend on any pre-pro, preferably around $1.5K.

I'll give 2 thumbs up to the Integra 80.3, so much so I bought a second...
Was a very nice change of pace from the D2v.... Network controlled with my android, XT32 did a much better job for the bass in both my systems and added cohesion for the rest of the bandwidth, the complete and utter full silent noise floor of XLRs out to my amp - SQ is spectacular... A touch over your Price limit, but IMO well worth an upgrade from a receiver....

Funny you should mention that, the DAC that I mentioned that will absolutely blow your mind with how much better it is than those crappy AVRs you've got cluttering up your room is $1845 and is made by a VERY HONEST MAN!!!!

If you're not blown away I'll run down the street................naked..............with your face tattooed on my hind quarters, your face on one cheek and the audioholics logo on the other

Please Do Tell us of this DAC.... Which product are you speaking of sir...

I had one in my system with my Salk SoundScapes, and though it was a definate improvement of the SQ of my setup - and after pulling it with the other equipment feeding it and replaceing it with the 80.3, -- the Integra provided every bit the same if not better SQ.....

The added complication of integrating said DAC in the end was not worth the trouble, and provided nothing more then what I got with a fantastic PrePro.