Researching which receiver to go with...

[Sydbarrett]

Thank you in advance for your help!

I'm moving into a brand new house in June which I've had them prewire with 2 rear surround speakers in the ceiling (6 inch, 100 watt) above my couch. I also have the same speakers in the patio cover. I'm going to run a 7.1 system. I also had them wire 4 cat6 ethernet connections too! I had them prewire a plate in the corner with a sub RCA also. Now I know I'll need to upgrade the center channel soon (CS20?) as well as the sub (BicF12). I am shopping for a reciever first & I like the Pioneers. I want to spend $400-$600. I like the 1122 but then I started looking at the Pioneer Elite and started getting an Ice Cream headache! I need a A/B speaker switch for my patio speakers so the Denon won't work unless I go 5.1. Any thoughts?



Toshiba 52" DLP, 2 Polk T90e's, 2 Polk R30's, Polk CSM, MTX SW2, DirecTV HDDVR, Sony BDP-S580, Sony STR-DE698

 

[fuzz092888]

My first thoughts are that you're looking to overspend on the receiver and underspend on the speakers.

general rule of thumb is no more than 20% of budget goes to electronics, such as receivers amps etc.

How essential is 7.1 to you? That should help make up your mind. IMO, I'd think twice about spending so much on a receiver when the center and sub you're looking are could be better, for not a ton more money.

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm also a fan of Pioneers - probably mostly because my first receiver with auto calibration was a Pioneer. I'm running an Elite now, but I only bought it because the regular line didn't have the features that I wanted at the time (such as preamp outputs).

The Pioneer 1021 was going for $300 regularly about 2-6 months ago, so you can find deals from time to time. Elites aren't (or at least weren't) offered online from authorized dealers, so buying online means no Pioneer warranty for the Elites.

Which features in the Elites caught your attention?

Oh, and if you don't mind saying, where in Arizona are you? I'm by Tucson.

 

[Sydbarrett]

Thanks Adam! I live in Mesa. I want to buy a receiver that will keep me happy for many years. I plan on upgrading the rest of my system as time & money permit. I want to see how a new receiver sounds with my current setup then decide what to buy next. My Sony is the weak link right now as it has no HDMI at all. I'll probably get the 1122, I like what I have read about it but it's nice to hear what others think.

This review kinda sold me...
The VSX-1122-K has, for the first time in the line, access to Pioneer's proprietary AVNavigator which is touted as an "interactive owners manual" which is accessible from your networked PC or iPad and communicates directly with the VSX-1122-K. It will walk you through speaker set-up, Advanced MCACC calibration (another first in the line), sound optimization, firmware updates, and more. There is also a full-color GUI overlay on HDMI for receiver control. This feature looks really cool.

Full color GUI & the AVNav plus they add 2 more amps... nice. If only I could hear one somewhere.

Oh, and Alex, I've never had a 7.1 system but I figure if I'm building a system why wouldn't I want it? I think it's going to be awesome!

 

[fuzz092888]

Haha, well thats a first for me. I've had my name in there for a month or two now and you're the first to use it

7.1 is awesome, some could argue that not much if any movies are actually mixed in 7.1 or higher. I believe I read somewhere that movies are recorded or mixed or both in 5.1 and then any more channels than that are somewhat artificially added? I'm probably butchering that and I can't find the post I read it in, so I'll leave it that at that and say, for me building an awesome 5.1/5.2 would be my first priority since those two back channels can get added in at any time and can be inexpensive. I love bass, so getting a better subwoofer or two would come way before those back channels since I don't feel like you lose anything with 5 channels and the gain with 7 is minimal, at least to me. I would, as time and funds allow add those back channels and maybe two more later on, but only after I had a killer 5 channel rig first.

My own personal beliefs about audio are more or less centered around things I learned from guys around these parts who know a heck of a lot more than me, like Adam up there, but they have always preached, before me and now to me, speakers before electronics, speakers before electronics, speakers before electronics. This being the case, I think you should spend less on a receiver, maybe one that can do maybe 5.1, with the second zone, and invest a bit more in a better subwoofer and center.

You may or may not notice a difference between the receivers, but I have no doubt in my mind you will notice a difference in the sub and probably in the center as well.

Right now I'm kinda piecemealing my system together, building it slowly, and I can honestly say I overspent per my budget on electronics but I got an offer I couldn't refuse and then ran into some power issues that got me a little worried so long story short I got two new toys and completely ruined my credibility for preaching speakers first That being said, before I did all that I did put my deposit in for a pair of Philharmonic 3s, so I didn't totally jump ship.

For what you have, and where it seems you're heading, my advice would be to cut the receiver budget and go with a bigger more bad rear end sub. I can't imagine you'd regret it, but then again receivers are shiny and pretty so what do I know.

 

[Sydbarrett]

Thanks for your input Alex!

What sub or subs (The 1122 has 2 sub outputs) do you like for under $300 or so? I've been drinking the Bic F12 koolaid...$188 at Amazon right now!

I have the prewire in the corner for a sub, That is where the new one will go. I wonder if I would also want to keep my MTX SW2 next to my front right floor speaker?

I have all the speakers & I'm already prewired for the 7.1 so that is going to happen. I should have mentioned that I also had speaker wires prewired in the wall 6 inches above the baseboard to run my right & left surround speakers (the R30's).

 

[fuzz092888]

How big is your room? That will affect what subs you should go for.

I think that for what you want to spend on a sub, you can go either one of two ways. You can max the budget and get a so~so sub, that won't be great, but possibly adequate for giving you some bass. OR you can wait, and add $200-300 to the sub budget and get something that is much much better. A sub in the $500-700 range will be 10 times better than subs in the under $300 range.

If you're stuck with that price, and just want a budget sub then

http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=197&crid=57&cat_name=Powered+Subwoofers

STF-2 Subwoofer

M8 Powered Subwoofer

Impact 10 Ten inch Powered Subwoofer by Velodyne

You may want to check out craigslist and ebay as well.

The problem with any of these subs are that they're just not big and powerful enough to pressurize even a medium sized room, and if the sub is too far from the listening position you won't get a lot of bass. Then you'll end up turning up the bass on the receiver and the sub itself and corner load it and you'll get more bass, but it'll be boomy and distorted. I should also mention that without doing a bass crawl, and making sure that the corner you had pre-wired is the best place for the sub, you just kinda ham stringed yourself there.

With a small sub like you're looking at, you really need it more or less right behind the listening position if it's in a medium-large sized room, or any room that's at all open to other rooms. Only then can you get any semblance of accuracy or power, while minimizing distortion.

Bic's aren't super terrible, but you get what you pay for (as long as you don't buy into fancy marketing and snake oil).

Hope that helps.

 

[Sydbarrett]

I like bass! So what are the good $500-$700 subs? The room is 15 x 18

 

[Adam]

For starters, be sure to enter this month's contest to win a free SVS PC12-NSD! As far as I know, there are NO strings attached. I have an SVS cylinder sub and love it.

That reminds me...I need to enter before the contest ends tomorrow.

 

[fuzz092888]

Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX Powered Subwoofer

SB12-NSD - SVS

Rythmik FV12 - vented HT sub

Optimum-8 8" Subwoofer - Shop All Subwoofers - Subwoofers

SC-15 15" Subwoofer - Shop All Subwoofers - Subwoofers

EQ-Max 12 12" Powered Subwoofer by Velodyne

VTF-3 MK4 Subwoofer

VTF-2 MK4 Subwoofer

Welcome to Epik Subwoofers

Welcome to Epik Subwoofers

Elemental Designs: Car Stereo, Home Speakers, Electronics

Elemental Designs: Car Stereo, Home Speakers, Electronics

Elemental Designs: Car Stereo, Home Speakers, Electronics

This should get you started

Also your room is considered medium according to audioholics and if you follow their standards you should have all the bass you'll ever need.

 

[runswithscisors]

Thank you in advance for your help!

I'm moving into a brand new house in June which I've had them prewire with 2 rear surround speakers in the ceiling (6 inch, 100 watt) above my couch. I also have the same speakers in the patio cover. I'm going to run a 7.1 system. I also had them wire 4 cat6 ethernet connections too! I had them prewire a plate in the corner with a sub RCA also. Now I know I'll need to upgrade the center channel soon (CS20?) as well as the sub (BicF12). I am shopping for a reciever first & I like the Pioneers. I want to spend $400-$600. I like the 1122 but then I started looking at the Pioneer Elite and started getting an Ice Cream headache! I need a A/B speaker switch for my patio speakers so the Denon won't work unless I go 5.1. Any thoughts?

Toshiba 52" DLP, 2 Polk T90e's, 2 Polk R30's, Polk CSM, MTX SW2, DirecTV HDDVR, Sony BDP-S580, Sony STR-DE698

Getting back to the OP, I found that the receivers I was looking at didn't mix a zone two and 7.1 very well without a separate amp, and even then I was still going to have to run an analog cable as well as digital just to get sound to zone two. As I looked at amps and the reality that zone 3 would be in the future I realized that a separate receiver was more economical/user friendly. So I picked up a cheep Sherwood RX 5502 dual zone receiver. Just an option. Before I start getting flack on that Sherwood receiver, look at my sig and see what speakers its driving.

What sub or subs (The 1122 has 2 sub outputs) do you like for under $300 or so? I've been drinking the Bic F12 koolaid...$188 at Amazon right now!

If I'm reading this as you want to get two $300 subs, I would kick up the ante a bit and drop $769 on a single SVS PB NSD or $758 on a single HSU VTF-3 MK4 then if you want more bass add a second sub later on.

 

[Sydbarrett]

I can not wait for this house to be finished! I'm going to try & get one of these subs. I'm liking the VTF-2 MK4 On Sale at $519!

 

[Sydbarrett]

Hi "Scisors"!
I don't really need a zone 2, I just want to be able to be able to play whatever I 'm listening to on my patio speakers.The Pioneer 1122 has separate "speaker B" posts Also, I already have a MTX SW2 so that's why I brought up the dual sub question but it probably wouldn't sound very good having a cheap MTX sub paired with a HSU.

 

[fuzz092888]

If you only want to have what's playing in the main room playing through the patio speakers, then you don't even need zone 2.

If you want something different to be playing on the patio while something else is playing in the living room, then you need zone 2 or a separate device.

 

[runswithscisors]

If you only want to have what's playing in the main room playing through the patio speakers, then you don't even need zone 2.

If you want something different to be playing on the patio while something else is playing in the living room, then you need zone 2 or a separate device.

Correct, just note that sometimes with the A/B when A and B are selected you are limited to stereo in the main room, and a few brands out there, Sherwood for example, have some funky requirements for playing A and B together, like 16 Ohm speakers.

 

[runswithscisors]

Hi "Scisors"!
I don't really need a zone 2, I just want to be able to be able to play whatever I 'm listening to on my patio speakers.The Pioneer 1122 has separate "speaker B" posts

This was all I found on the 1122 in regards to a second set of speakers. Sorry, it lead my to believe it was a dual zone set up and not an A/B setup.

The VSX-1122-K takes the multi-channel audio experience to a whole new level with four advanced, sound-enhancing virtual speaker modes. Virtual Depth is designed to complement 3D movies. Virtual Height creates sound effects from above your main front speakers, creating virtual height speakers ideal for gaming enthusiasts. Virtual Wide creates a seamless blend between your front and back speakers. Virtual Surround Back replaces your back surround speakers, freeing you to use the surround amplifier to drive a second zone, or bi-amp the front speakers.

Also, I already have a MTX SW2 so that's why I brought up the dual sub question but it probably wouldn't sound very good having a cheap MTX sub paired with a HSU.

Eh, try it, if you don't like it put that SW2 on ebay. I have a rag tag assortment of speakers in my system right now but I like it for what it is, except for the pathetic little 8" Onkyo HTIB sub. IMHO there is a lot of bloat around here over dual subs. I even got recommendations for dual VTF-15Hs. When I contacted Dr. Hsu himself, (I may add that he is the only one with anything to gain by selling me more than I need) he agreed with my first choice of a single VTF-3 MK4.

FWIW, I found this little blip posted about the MTX SW2. Quoted from HERE

bought 2 of these. The first thing that I noticed is that this sub came WITH NO FIBER FILL in the box!?! So I used fiber fill to make it sound so much better. I have an Onkyo 604 and a Denon 1908. They both sound awesome with these subs. I could have spent more but I couldn't justify it. I glad that I didn't knowing what fiber fill could do to a sub.