ATI AT2000 amps

[Solid-State]

Curious AcuDefTechGuy what pre amp you use for your Salon 2s and Orions. I take it you use the Denon AVP1 but zones 2/3 for this? Have you ever considered a preamp like the STP-SE of EJs or perhaps AudioGD Kingwa's?

STP-SE (Stereo Pre-amp SPECIAL EDITION) (STP-SE) - Pre-Amplifiers - DAC 2 Digital, High Definition Amplifiers, Stereo Pre Amp Audio Equip

audio-gd  Stellar product

Kingwa has a new pre amp with DAC and headphone amp with the Tenor 88002 USB called the NFB-20.2

ºÍ§Ó­µ响

 

[Solid-State]

He needs to get some digital 1000wpc x 2 ch RMS 8ohm amps that only cost $2,000.

doh!

yeah yeah the Cherry advice was bad...

I have heard them and they really are great sounding amps but the price is LARGE for what your getting. At least with Bob your getting your monies worth sorta like the Line array vs. Salon 2

If a poll was taken where do you think Salon 2 would place as best loudspeaker on earth...

prob #1 ehh... with Orion second?

AcuDefTechGuy you have one of the best rigs of all the AV nut forum members I've ever spoken to.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

doh!

yeah yeah the Cherry advice was bad...

I have heard them and they really are great sounding amps but the price is LARGE for what your getting. At least with Bob your getting your monies worth sorta like the Line array vs. Salon 2

If a poll was taken where do you think Salon 2 would place as best loudspeaker on earth...

prob #1 ehh... with Orion second?

AcuDefTechGuy you have one of the best rigs of all the AV nut forum members I've ever spoken to.

Oh, stop it, you're embarrassing me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Curious AcuDefTechGuy what pre amp you use for your Salon 2s and Orions.

I actually use the Denon AVR-5308 as preamp for Salons & AVR-990 as preamp for Orions. AVR-3310 for Phil3 and AVP-A1HDCI for KEF 201/2.

 

[Solid-State]

WOW you should try a better quality pre-amp for two channel. The Wyred4Sound STP-SE is supposed to be really good. I'd also look at Kingwa's gear (AudioGD).

If I owned those I'd do two things. I'd get STP-SE or NFB-20.2

I'd put my money on the NFB-20.2 as it's basically the same in terms of pre as STP-SE plus you get dual Wolfson with TE8802 USB audio!

I dunno if you know what your looking at when checking out internals but here ya go...
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB20/NFB20EN.htm

owhh

And you get a KICK *** headphone amp as well!

 

[Solid-State]

Who built you the Orions? Is it using Sigs active xover with ATI multi chan amp like his reference build?

Owhh and one other Kingwa piece that's just PERFECT for your Salons and Orions.

ºÍ§Ó*µ响

Kingwa's Reference 10 !!!

It's a perfect all in one box with PCM1704UK.

Reference-10.2 $1850

You get a fully balanced 4 piece PCM1704K with volume I/V conversion on stepped dale relays with a nice section of inputs for a preamp.

Personally if I could afford it and had your gear I'd yank the Denon stuff and try a Reference 10.2 (make sure latest .2 build) of the Reference 10.

YOU WILL HEAR A BIG DIFFERENCE

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Who built you the Orions? Is it using Sigs active xover with ATI multi chan amp like his reference build?

Linkwitz & his gang built my Orion 100%. XO, Speakon, everything. Yes, AT6012 amp.

I can't even build a piece of wood!

 

[cpp]

I can't even build a piece of wood

they make drugs for that ya know

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Personally if I could afford it and had your gear I'd yank the Denon stuff and try a Reference 10.2 (make sure latest .2 build) of the Reference 10.

YOU WILL HEAR A BIG DIFFERENCE

Well, I believe in the Audio Critic big time, and I think the Audio Critic would not agree with you 100%.

I mean it's fine what you are saying. Maybe you can squeeze out another 10% sound quality or something.

But I believe the SQ of the Denon AVR is as good as any preamp out there. I really do. Otherwise I would have gone a different route, like what you said.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

they make drugs for that ya know

Mind always in the gutter!

 

[cpp]

Mind always in the gutter!

I know I'm setting here watching a Diana Krall jazz video and wow does this lady have some bedroom eyes when she sings and plays that sweet piano.

 

[Solid-State]

Well, I believe in the Audio Critic big time, and I think the Audio Critic would not agree with you 100%.

I mean it's fine what you are saying. Maybe you can squeeze out another 10% sound quality or something.

But I believe the SQ of the Denon AVR is as good as any preamp out there. I really do. Otherwise I would have gone a different route, like what you said.

I'm curious and no insults intended here. Do you know what ohms law is? Do you know how electricity "works"?

If you knew anything about electronics you'd know that an AVR is a noisy peamp that's generally not very good.

You can get a pre-amp kit for about $20 bucks that would best the Denon or build a B1 buffer.

Things are not black white, yes no, like you think with electronics and audio. Using that one box store denon as a pre for Orion is a SIN IMHO....

A SIN

PS remember he couldn't tell the AB and Cinepro were the SAME AMP...

 

[Solid-State]

See this K100 pre-amp kit... it costs $22 dollars and WOULD SOUND BETTER THAN THE DENON

Stereo Pre Amp with Tone Control

Have you heard of Nelson Pass's B1 buffer!?!

How somebody can drop that kinda coin and not know these things is beyond me man...

Your dealer sure hasn't educated you at all...

Using those crappy AVRs as pre-amps IMHO is like having Russian Caviar and putting it on a friggin RITZ CRACKER !

Your obvious a well to do guy that's very smart in your field. You don't get wealthy enough to buy Orion and Salon 2 unless your at least smart at one topic! LOL

I'd seriously pickup Kingwa's Reference 10.2 DAC/preamp. At least give it a try as you could return it in 30 days.

I'm also willing to make a bet it will sound NOTICEABLY BETTER. You name the terms of the bet... heck I'll run down the street NAKED even and take pictures to prove it with a Audioholics logo painted on my chest! I'm that confident it will make a BIG DIFFERENCE.

I hope you realize I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything.

I'm trying to HELP YOU!

PS are you using those AVRs as converters/DACs also? IF SO BROTHER AUDIO NUT... UGGG.... DOUBLE UGGG UGGG... TRIPPLE OMG UGGG UGGG UGGG

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm curious and no insults intended here. Do you know what ohms law is? Do you know how electricity "works"?

If you knew anything about electronics you'd know that an AVR is a noisy peamp that's generally not very good.

You can get a pre-amp kit for about $20 bucks that would best the Denon or build a B1 buffer.

Things are not black white, yes no, like you think with electronics and audio. Using that one box store denon as a pre for Orion is a SIN IMHO....

A SIN

PS remember he couldn't tell the AB and Cinepro were the SAME AMP...

You do know that Audio Critics employed some PhD & electrical engineers, right?

And Siegfried Linkwitz is an electrical engineer, who also knows a lot about audio.

Yet, they don't share your beliefs. Why is that?

Why do they believe that practically all amps & preamp sound the same, but you don't?

You don't claim to be smarter than they are in this area, do you?

BTW, I did take some Physics classes in high-school and college, but I don't recall the part about how electrons tell the difference between a preamp and an AVR.

 

[Solid-State]

Are you using the AVRs are analog preamps or are you using them as preamps AND CONVERTERS IE using HDMI or SP/DIF input?

And if you think all converters, I/V and line level circuits are the same your a fool!

Buddy you can swap bloody opamps and hear a difference OK...

Why do guys like you read stuff from Sig etc and take it in a black/white, yes/no it's this way period blahh blahh...

Get Sigfriend on here and lets see what he has to say. You might actually learn something about EE design and circuitry AcuDef because as it stands now you sure don't know nor understand much... heck Sig's active xover doesn't need those quality Wima caps and 1% Dale resistors etc... why not just drop cheap *** 5% resistors and Teapoo cheap *** electrolitics in there then ehh... you... uhh... misinformed individual with no excuse to be ignorant because of multiple thousands and thousands of posts, research and a topic of interest. Not to mention a good $50,000 worth of gear. How can all that be so yet your... uhh... CLUELESS!!!

WHAT GIVES!?!

Your thinking like Bill O'reilly does on a complex social issue.

It's not black and white buddy!!!

If you zoom in and look at the granularity regarding sonic performance and component quality/circuit design it's obvious to anyone with half a brain in EE design that there is a difference. Heck the friggin LAYOUT ALONE can have an impact!

To suggest otherwise is to show a totally lack of understanding and comprehension of EE design. Heck half of what I'm saying I bet you don't even understand and have to google like I/V conversion etc.

And I have to argue and debate your type whilst receiving multiple insults I smoke drugs, I'm this, I'm that... just like on AVS...

What the heck man...

DON'T YOU GUYS REALIZE WHEN SOMEONE THAT KNOWS WHAT THE FRIG THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT IS TAKING THE TIME AND PATIENTS TO EXPLAIN AND HELP YOU!

And you know what I get for my efforts for this from forums like AVS... a kick in the head and a bunch of insults...

Even when I indirectly help lineup that CBT GTG etc

BS

I've had it... I'm going back to my DIY EE circles where the people know what they are talking about and are not insulting to me...

It's a shame too!

AS YOU ALL LOSE (and not just knowledge also actual $$$)

You know once I was stupid and misinformed but you know what, I took it upon myself to educate because I love this stuff and have a passion for it.

I'm sorry for my blunt, brunt, crass, uhh... saber rattling ways regarding this stuff...

I just can't help it! I SPEAK THE TRUTH and just want to spread my evangelist doctrine.

 

[Irvrobinson]

you... uhh... misinformed individual with no excuse to be ignorant because of multiple thousands and thousands of posts, research and a topic of interest. Not to mention a good $50,000 worth of gear. How can all that be so yet your... uhh... CLUELESS!!!

[snip]

To suggest otherwise is to show a totally lack of understanding and comprehension of EE design. Heck half of what I'm saying I bet you don't even understand and have to google like I/V conversion etc.

And I have to argue and debate your type whilst receiving multiple insults I smoke drugs, I'm this, I'm that... just like on AVS...

What the heck man...

DON'T YOU GUYS REALIZE WHEN SOMEONE THAT KNOWS WHAT THE FRIG THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT IS TAKING THE TIME AND PATIENTS TO EXPLAIN AND HELP YOU!

And you know what I get for my efforts for this from forums like AVS... a kick in the head and a bunch of insults...

Even when I indirectly help lineup that CBT GTG etc

BS

I've had it... I'm going back to my DIY EE circles where the people know what they are talking about and are not insulting to me...

It's a shame too!

AS YOU ALL LOSE (and not just knowledge also actual $$$)

You know once I was stupid and misinformed but you know what, I took it upon myself to educate because I love this stuff and have a passion for it.

I'm sorry for my blunt, brunt, crass, uhh... saber rattling ways regarding this stuff...

I just can't help it! I SPEAK THE TRUTH and just want to spread my evangelist doctrine.

I nominate this person to be banned. ASAP.

 

[walter duque]

I nominate this person to be banned. ASAP.

What's taking so long?

 

[Solid-State]

I'm sorry for flying off the handle on here Audioholics!

I just can't believe it when I give such honest advice that's really hard to find in this hobby and then the two guys there, it wasn't you AcuDef, turn around and start insulting me saying I'm on drugs. Then when I question what I was wrong about in my statement the guy turns around and says everything I was saying was right!

Well what is it... am I on drugs and deserve INSULTS or what... OR am I RIGHT and I do perhaps know what I'm talking about...

Again I'm sorry for flying off the handle but again I'm being provoked.

Why? What's in it for these people flies on the wall... what motive could they possible have to provoke, anger and then get removed from the forums some one like me...

I'll tell you... they sell the BS product directly and indirectly and they don't want someone like me on here spilling the beans...

Like your Cinepro pall AccuDef that won't buy anything else but turns his nose up when looking at the AB version.... OF THE SAME FIGGING AMP!

OMG

And then he's paying like double to that Cinepro guy when Bob is selling them at "50%" off!!!

hahahah

WHAT A JOKE!

and I'm the insider here spilling the beans to help you guys yet...

I'm **** on... and by who flies on the wall...

THINK ABOUT IT

PS Their motive is more than nepotism I'll tell you that!

 

[Solid-State]

And I'm DEAD SERIOUS about running around NAKED with an Audioholics Logo painted on my chest.

If I knew AcuDef well enough I'd even float a bloody Reference 10.2 to him just to prove it.

If the Orion active xover is to noisy for ya then get an active DSP one like Ground Sound's or a Xilica or Dolby Lake. It appears you could afford it! That's something Kingwa needs to engineer. An active DSP xover/preamp DAC. With like 16 PCM1704UKs on it and his custom DSP and BRILLIANT Levison inspired I/V conversion dale stepped relay volume. Now that would KICKBUTT and make your Orion's really sing! The double conversion thing in most active DSP xovers SUCKS! The only one to truly resolve this down the chain into digital amplification is Boz of TacT.

And also young smart engineers like this guy and well... ME!

http://web.me.com/drarthurcheng/Site/Welcome.html

 

[walter duque]

Like your Cinepro pall AccuDef that won't buy anything else but turns his nose up when looking at the AB version.... OF THE SAME FIGGING AMP!

OMG

And then he's paying like double to that Cinepro guy when Bob is selling them at "50%" off!!!

hahahah

WHAT A JOKE!

What do you know about AB and Cinepro? What makes you think that I paid double for the Cinepro compared to the AB.