NooB? want better signal processing per channel what A/V Receiver??

AUDIOCRAZE

AUDIOCRAZE

Junior Audioholic
Hey Guys I have a noob question and I appreciate all help. I have a Onkyo TX-SR805 with Klipsch F3 5.1. I feel like this isn't the right receiver for my system. Dont know if this is the correct term (Audio Signal) if not I just made it up. Lets say im playing an action movie, I feel like the signal processing of the amp isnt pushing the separation of audio details as clean as I would expect. For example if there is a huge explosion I would expect the glass to hit the ground cleanly with separation and great detail, I would expect the explosion to surround the room and hear pieces of debris hitting the ground in the same fashion, I mean that is what DTS is good for isnt it. I have the treble turned up on all channels quite a bit and it helped with highs but still didnt give me the detail I was wanting from scenes like that. Another thing is the surround speakers I know are not supposed to be like front L/R channels but they have always been low I turned the treble and it improved but still not getting the audio detail i would like. Question is do i need a more powerful amp and use the Onkyo as a Preamp. Should I get a better A/V receiver with better signal processing abilities, or should i just get a new Preamp/Amp? When I turn up the volume it kicks *** but it just lacks in the detail of sharp clean sounds and thats more of what im looking for. Please provide units that would best help in this situation im willing to spend a couple grand to achieve this of course the less the better but please give suggestions thanks!!....
 
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jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
I think the problem is more with your sources and speakers than your receiver. There's going to be so little channel crosstalk in that receiver that it's barely measurable, let alone audible. I'd make sure your receiver is actually getting proper multichannel audio first.

The only thing in a newer receiver that I think could benefit you is maybe Audyssey Dynamic EQ which boosts surround at low volumes.

You have run the auto-calibration, right? You might want to look at the positioning and orientation of your surround speakers (not to mention your mains). Also, if you're looking at spending a couple grand, IMO your best bet is probably to spend all or most of that on a speaker upgrade. I was never impressed with those Klipsch Synergy speakers - for that much money, I think you could get something significantly better.

What are you using for source material and how is it hooked up to the 805? Where are your surround speakers located? Can you take a picture of your environment?
 
AUDIOCRAZE

AUDIOCRAZE

Junior Audioholic
thanks, well i have all sources hooked up via HDMI blu-ray roku, dish dvr. the receiver displays the audio setting properly depending on what im watching. I do admit the floor-standing speakers are closer then id like. As for the rears they are 8 ft apart 8 ft high in a downward firing position, the wall that they are mounted on is directly behind the seating position 3 ft away. I have a youtube video of my JBL 4350's where it shows the Klipsch front placement in the video. type Kwazykilla87 on youtube search and click on JBL 4350 from my videos. I tried using the Audessey in a Denon receiver in a different 5.1 and just thought it was more troublesome then it was worth so i never used it. Ive read in other forums that it does supposedly work and your suggesting it so im going to buy one for the Onkyo to calibrate it. I have another forum in the beginners and Audiophytes section titled "Jbl 4350 studio monitor 5.1 surround sound help set up" I would love for you to read it and give me your opinion on it as well, its on the first page of that section. I was going to try and set my biamp JBL 4350's as replacement for the Klipsch Front L/R and then use the klipsch sub, center and sorround speakers as a 5.1 set up but then wanted the capability to revert to the klipsch 5.1 and deactivate the JBL in other sources. any questions please ask and thanks again for the help!!
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
A question, do your expectations fall flat with ever DVD you play? If not, I would think it were the source, ie teh DVD itself. Some are recorded/mastered very well while others are done very poorly. I don't think your equipment is at fault.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
Also the sound from a Roku or SD broadcast will be 2 channel and not provide good surround or channel separation.
 
S

Solid-State

Banned
Does that AVR have pre outs? If so I'd pickup an Emotiva XPA-5. That will do a better job of driving those speakers!

If you are considering replacing the speakers at that price point I suggest.

Audiophile Loudspeakers and Subwoofers for Home Theater and Music - Ascend Acoustics, renowned speakers,subs,audio

Actually I'd get the XPA-3 as it measures better and the rears can be driven by the AVR anyway.

PS watch out for speaker denial syndrome... people swap all kinds of gear thinking it's the transport/amplification when it's the bloody loudspeakers!
 
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AUDIOCRAZE

AUDIOCRAZE

Junior Audioholic
They are firing at about a 30 to 35 degree angle, the bracket is a ball joint so the bottom edge of the large speaker is resting on the wall while the top is suspended in the air by the ball joint. I agree I dont expect much out of the roku or Sd, my largest concern which I should have pointed out is with the latest audio codecs for example a blu-ray transmitting DTS HD master audio or Dolby True HD. As far as DVD it has done a superb job... however thats where the problem lies. I feel as if the difference between a DVD Dolby 5.1 and a blu-ray DTS HD master audio is a marginal difference. Im getting the difference in sound detail where i would hear minor crisp detail but not as high and separated as i would expect, thus i thought it could be the processing of the AVR. If I were to go to a magnolia theater for example and hear a 5.1 DTS HD Master Audio i would here extraordinary sound detail and separation. Your right its possible it could be the speakers, I was impressed with the bang that they produced but I was hoping it could have been an easy fix by upgrading to a PrePro and getting a significant return in doing so.
 
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jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
Are you 100% sure your BD player is transmitting HD multichannel audio? I believe some transmit only stereo by default. Look at the display while watching a BD or DVD and make sure the "DTS HD" or "Dolby Digital TrueHD" lights are on. Your remote should also have a Display button that will tell you more about the current input and output mode.
 
AUDIOCRAZE

AUDIOCRAZE

Junior Audioholic
Its funny that you mention if im a 100% sure. When I upgraded to this new Sony BDP-S580 a couple months ago I was having the problem that you are stating it wasnt transmitting the signal called sony and they helped me link the player and avr to recognize the change in audio signal. Now it will switch to DTS auto or manually through the player and display on the AVR. I just ordered the BDP-CX960 400BR changer so im going to have to do it again. (SolidState) the AVR does have pre outs 7.1 pre out and pre out zone 2,3. Im highly considering doing the XPA amp upgrade and calling Emotiva today for info to make up my mind. The only problem is that im trying to eventually incorporate the JBL 4350's as a substitute to the Front L/R channel of the Klipsh F-L/R channel and have a on demand function between the L/R channel. I have doubts on how to do it or what equipment to upgrade too. I have another forum in the beginners and Audiophytes section titled "Jbl 4350 studio monitor 5.1 surround sound help set up" first page. Honestly I may be in denial with the Klipsch but at the end of the day if i can incorporate those JBL's and have that on demand feature where i can substitute between speakers ill be happy and solve my issues..
 
AUDIOCRAZE

AUDIOCRAZE

Junior Audioholic
I figured going with a XPA5 or 3 using it to push the Klipsch then using the Onkyo Preout or get a new UMC-1 or Xmc-1 pre outs to connect to the Electro Xover of the JBL. Maybe then the Klipsch will improve in sorround sound (DTS) with more power and then i can interchange between my JBL and Klipsch on the F/L/R channel while using the other klipsch speakers for 5.1 depending on what im playing. Problem is i cant quite figure out how to do it. Maybe taking a look at the whole picture i can solve both issues.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Its not your equipment but the set-up. Those Klipsch are very efficient and do not require any serious power at all to make them sing loud. The extar power won't make things clearer.

To ensure you are getting surround out, disconnect one lead from the three front speakers and see if you hear anything coming from the surrounds. Check the setting of your Sony to ensure that its putting out a bit stream via HDMI.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Hey Guys I have a noob question and I appreciate all help. I have a Onkyo TX-SR805 with Klipsch F3 5.1. I feel like this isn't the right receiver for my system. Dont know if this is the correct term (Audio Signal) if not I just made it up. Lets say im playing an action movie, I feel like the signal processing of the amp isnt pushing the separation of audio details as clean as I would expect. For example if there is a huge explosion I would expect the glass to hit the ground cleanly with separation and great detail, I would expect the explosion to surround the room and hear pieces of debris hitting the ground in the same fashion, I mean that is what DTS is good for isnt it. I have the treble turned up on all channels quite a bit and it helped with highs but still didnt give me the detail I was wanting from scenes like that. Another thing is the surround speakers I know are not supposed to be like front L/R channels but they have always been low I turned the treble and it improved but still not getting the audio detail i would like. Question is do i need a more powerful amp and use the Onkyo as a Preamp. Should I get a better A/V receiver with better signal processing abilities, or should i just get a new Preamp/Amp? When I turn up the volume it kicks *** but it just lacks in the detail of sharp clean sounds and thats more of what im looking for. Please provide units that would best help in this situation im willing to spend a couple grand to achieve this of course the less the better but please give suggestions thanks!!....
If you have the treble turned up on all channels, I would venture to suggest, either you have a severe hearing high frequency loss, or your personal audio reference point is way wide of the mark.

Klipsch speakers in particular bore a hole in your head even without turning up the treble.

HT is a very difficult audio environment. I think this is because there are so many sounds in a movie that are very familiar to everyone.

Realism requires systems with extremely smooth frequency response on all channels, and wide dynamic range. All speakers need good dispersion patterns.

Basically only very good systems indeed give, that feeling it is really real and be able to place you outside in an open space for instance.

I have now heard quite a few systems. Any speaker problem and you tend to localize to that speaker. With most systems I hear the centers seem to have terrible problems and and my brain is just drawn to them like a magnet and I get to all intense and purposes no sense of reality.

The engineers are doing a better and better job. I have spent the last few months ironing out even very minor frequency aberrations indeed.

If you play a recent offering like War Horse the reality is totally astonishing.

I have come to the conclusion you can't have anything wrong or out of place, or the psyche is not fooled. For a system to fake reality, you have to attend to lots and lots of small details and some very small.

I can tell you with those speakers and the treble cranked causing gross frequency response aberrations, you will get no semblance of reality whatever.
 
S

Solid-State

Banned
I figured going with a XPA5 or 3 using it to push the Klipsch then using the Onkyo Preout or get a new UMC-1 or Xmc-1 pre outs to connect to the Electro Xover of the JBL. Maybe then the Klipsch will improve in sorround sound (DTS) with more power and then i can interchange between my JBL and Klipsch on the F/L/R channel while using the other klipsch speakers for 5.1 depending on what im playing. Problem is i cant quite figure out how to do it. Maybe taking a look at the whole picture i can solve both issues.
Get XPA-3 is has better measurements and your rears don't need that kind of amplification anyway and build quality is slightly better than XPA-5. Take the money saved and buy Bluejeans LC-1 hookups for it. Live with Speaker Denial Syndrome a little longer... Then eventually replace your loudspeakers with something DECENT... LOL

PS don't mainstream boxstore it again to Polk ehh... LOL dude... LOL... PM me!
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
Spending money on more amp is the absolute worst thing you could do right now. It absolutely won't help at all. Your EQ and levels are completely off the charts messed up. Run Audyssey and do it properly.
 
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AUDIOCRAZE

AUDIOCRAZE

Junior Audioholic
Alright the first thing ill do is run Audyssey; the search begins. I guess I can find it on Amazon or Ebay if not ill call Onkyo for it. I have a Denon Audyssey unit wonder if it would work but as you said im going to do this right so ill just buy the one for this unit. I have a friend coming over in a couple hours he has a very similar set up to what im trying to accomplish with both systems. He made a diagram and if it works ill post up how i was able to merge both systems and then Audyssey it is! Im asuming i can post a video of it on this website?
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
You lost your setup mic? You can get them for $15 at the Onkyo web store.

You need to be sure you use the right one because the receiver is specifically calibrated for a certain model of microphone.
 
AUDIOCRAZE

AUDIOCRAZE

Junior Audioholic
I dont remember it ever being in the box but i may be wrong. Im glad to know its only 15 I was assuming it would be 40 or 50 dollars. Ill be ordering it today thanks for all the help buddy and ill keep ya posted on how it goes..
 
LAB3

LAB3

Senior Audioholic
Klipsch speakers in particular bore a hole in your head even without turning up the treble.

.
Dear TLS GUY
Klipsch Speakers do WHAT?? Your Love for Klipsch speakers is like how much you love a AVR (hater)...... sometimes you are so far off the mark it cracks me up.40 years ago I started to really appreciate how nice Klipsch Heritage speakers really are. I don't need thousands of dollars in ego speakers and huge amps and transmission lines etc..excessive Bling IMHO. You can be some what "CURT" on some of your posts. And not just this comment(Bores a hole), as you once posted the only nice vintage piece of equipment I have was my Revox.:rolleyes: I said nothing in return as you are free to post what you think.. You posted a speaker link(Dear Louis ring a bell) after I had posted the other day about some tube amps for my late dad's DIY Khorns he made.University Classic horns etc... I guess they are junk too.
I was asking about amps not speakers. :mad: I got what you meant Doc. You better check the fluid in those trick transmission lines.:D I think they are a quart low.
 

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