DIY vs commercial

[ARES24]

My next upgrade is a tower wet up for my HT. What is the difference in sound from a DIY to a commercially bought speaker. I have no problem with the cabinet construction (given the specs are properly laid out) but I have no experience with wiring crossovers, etc)

In short, does the cost savings of a DIY speaker build outway the thousand little tweaks that speaker companies put into their speakers?

Got two months to my birthday, have to figure out what I want

 

[TheWarrior]

Look at madisound.com they have many kits available so that all you pay for are parts, and then build the cabinet yourself. What you are trading for in doing DYI is your time as opposed to cash up front for a prebuilt speaker.

The enclosure must be well built and will take over 20 hours for a basic enclosure. So do you enjoy wood working? Then DIY becomes a fun project. Do you just want sound, and want it now? Buy a brand name.

 

[adwilk]

I'd say some of it depends on your budget. Depending on what you're looking to spend, some more specific comparisons could be made. I was dead set on building a pair of towers when I get into my new place, but the more I read about the Philharmonics are making me second guess that. I'm not sure I can build a pair of speakers that would compare (forget outperform) at 2 grand.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'd say some of it depends on your budget. Depending on what you're looking to spend, some more specific comparisons could be made. I was dead set on building a pair of towers when I get into my new place, but the more I read about the Philharmonics are making me second guess that. I'm not sure I can build a pair of speakers that would compare (forget outperform) at 2 grand.

Exactly. It would cost just about the same to DIY the Philharmonic speakers because DM isn't really making much of a profit at all.

So might as well just relax and let the master built the speakers for you.

 

[fuzz092888]

I know somewhere around here GranteedEV said something to the effect of, if your main use or at least the larger portion of your usage split is music then go with the philharmonic. If you'll be using more for HT (and you don't mind doing a little work) I believe he suggested this

CBT36 Line Array Speaker Kit Pair 301-980

Cabinet pieces are included, you will just have to finish the cabinets (stain, lacquer, sand, whatever) and you have to use a digital controller to handle the active crossover.

Personally I just sent my deposit in for the Phil 3s and my usage is probably 60-40 HT, but I've been tossing around the idea of the CBT36 as a nice summer project

 

[adwilk]

I'm actually on the fence between those two speakers exactly. I don't know what to do.

 

[fuzz092888]

How about you get the CBT36s since I've already ordered the phils and we can take turns

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'm actually on the fence between those two speakers exactly. I don't know what to do.

Do what ADTG does - get both

Speaking of DM and DIY - there is good and high value design he gave us - ER18
People whom built it - are quite happy - I can imagine Philharmonics to be a superior speaker, but ER18 is not a slough and cost (parts) almost half of even cheapest of DM commercial offering

 

[Swerd]

My next upgrade is a tower wet up for my HT. What is the difference in sound from a DIY to a commercially bought speaker. I have no problem with the cabinet construction (given the specs are properly laid out) but I have no experience with wiring crossovers, etc)

In short, does the cost savings of a DIY speaker build outway the thousand little tweaks that speaker companies put into their speakers?

In short, yes the cost savings of properly designed DIY speakers do outweigh what you can get from commercially available speakers.

It depends on what price range you are thinking of, but in general if you build your own cabinets from MDF or plywood, you can expect DIY speakers to perform as well as good commercial speakers that cost 3 to 5 times as much at the retail level. If you buy pre-made cabinets instead of building your own, this factor is more like 1.5 to 3 – still worthwhile.

Are you thinking of bookshelf or floor standing speakers? What price range? If you tell us that, we can suggest some well tested and well received DIY designs.

I should point out that by DIY I really mean "build it yourself" and not "design it yourself". If you are inexperienced at measuring audio performance and designing speakers based on those measurements, I urge you to build an established "build it yourself" design rather than frustrate and disappoint yourself by thinking you can design one.

 

[fuzz092888]

I have seen this thread before, and they do look like awesome speakers. If only I was competent enough to do such a thing. I think the CBT36s would just about be at my limit for putting something together, at least right now.

If you've got the time, patience, and skill the ER18s look real nice.

If you've got more money than patience or skill pull an ADTG.

 

[Swerd]

Fuzz - I just read above that you ordered a pair of Phil3s. Congrats! I heard the Phil1 and 3 last summer and they really are as good as they're said to be. You're gonna love them.

What finish are you getting?

 

[fuzz092888]

Thanks! I'm really excited and am happy with my decision to go with the Phil 3. It's good to hear another person say that they sound as good as everyone says they do.

I must say, I have more of a DM stance on speakers, so I kept it simple. I'm getting them in maple, with grills, but stained so that they're more of a bamboo color. Nice and simple. I'm also getting Del to make me some removable solid backs for the upper cabinets. Somebody mentioned something about the closed backs in the philharmonic thread so I got curious and thought what the heck, I'll guinea pig them since it seems that topic died off.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do what ADTG does - get both

If you've got the time, patience, and skill the ER18s look real nice.
If you've got more money than patience or skill pull an ADTG.

Hahaha.

I've got the patience, but Zero skills.

Most of the DIY kits cost like 80% less than the finished products. For example, the Orion kit is like $4K, but finished is $15K.

The CBT36 kit is $2K, but the finished product is $9K.

But on the Philharmonic speakers, the DIY would cost just as much as the finished products.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks! I'm really excited and am happy with my decision to go with the Phil 3. It's good to hear another person say that they sound as good as everyone says they do.

I must say, I have more of a DM stance on speakers, so I kept it simple. I'm getting them in maple, with grills, but stained so that they're more of a bamboo color. Nice and simple. I'm also getting Del to make me some removable solid backs for the upper cabinets. Somebody mentioned something about the closed backs in the philharmonic thread so I got curious and thought what the heck, I'll guinea pig them since it seems that topic died off.

Congrats!

I'm sure you will love them like I do.

What speakers are you using now and for the next few months until you get your Phil3?

 

[Swerd]

Thanks! I'm really excited and am happy with my decision to go with the Phil 3. It's good to hear another person say that they sound as good as everyone says they do.

I must say, I have more of a DM stance on speakers, so I kept it simple. I'm getting them in maple, with grills, but stained so that they're more of a bamboo color. Nice and simple. I'm also getting Del to make me some removable solid backs for the upper cabinets. Somebody mentioned something about the closed backs in the philharmonic thread so I got curious and thought what the heck, I'll guinea pig them since it seems that topic died off.

That should be cool.

The ability to change the balance between the front and rear wave by varying the stuffing adds a new wrinkle to the usual "where do I put these speakers". Now you must ask both "where do I put them" and "how much stuffing do I put in". It may seem a whole lot of trial and error at first, but I think it gives you more flexibility where to put them.

People who order new speakers – and then have to wait weeks or months for them to be made – usually start wondering about their amps. How much power will I need? You haven't asked that yet, and you may not be worried about it, but I thought I might add this:

I've heard both the 1 and 3 Phil models driven by a stand alone 2-channel amp that Dennis has. It's rated at 125 wpc and is equivalent to this. At the Capital Audiofest last July, Dennis used a more powerful (about 200 wpc) amp, on loan from Frank Van Alstine, in a hotel room much larger than his living room at home. It was an AVA Fetvalve 350 which was recently replaced by the AVA Fetvalve 400R. I think the smaller amp did just fine.

If you haven't heard bass from a transmission line cabinet, you're in for a treat. You will find lots of surprises in your music collection.

 

[fuzz092888]

Well nothing too great. I've got a mixed bag right now of seemingly random stuff. I had the old logitech z-5500 system through college (well not that old I suppose). Then I upgraded a bit to some cheap polk speakers that I got open box and the like, combined with some speakers I got for free from family members/friends. All in all, not a terrible sounding system for about $450 bucks.

Now I'm slowly starting to replace those, piece by piece. The Phils will be my first truly great speakers, and hopefully I'll be able to build around those in the coming years. I just hope Dennis keeps building speakers for awhile so I can keep buying them from him

As you can tell I'm really starting from the bottom.

I have thought about what kind of power I'll need, I asked somewhere in the beginners section awhile back, and then I asked Dennis as well. Right now, I'm thinking I'll use my AVR to power everything else, and I just bought an ABI 800.2 amp for about $500 bucks. It's only about a year old and they retail for about $1600 I think?

Should be more than enough I think.

In all the things I've auditioned, I have not heard a TL cabinet. I think you need to stop I only sent the check out today must be zen and block out all these good things I'm hearing because it seems like an eternity until I get them.

Thanks for the kind words swerd and ADTG.

Also, ADTG those shiny red ones you got are gorgeous I've been reading along on the Phil thread through you ordering them, to Del finishing the cabinets, to finally getting them. Now I guess I have to go through that rocking back and forth in anticipation process myself. Can't wait

 

[fuzz092888]

Sorry ARES24, for derailing your thread a bit

 

[walter duque]

Well nothing too great. I've got a mixed bag right now of seemingly random stuff. I had the old logitech z-5500 system through college (well not that old I suppose). Then I upgraded a bit to some cheap polk speakers that I got open box and the like, combined with some speakers I got for free from family members/friends. All in all, not a terrible sounding system for about $450 bucks.

Now I'm slowly starting to replace those, piece by piece. The Phils will be my first truly great speakers, and hopefully I'll be able to build around those in the coming years. I just hope Dennis keeps building speakers for awhile so I can keep buying them from him

As you can tell I'm really starting from the bottom.

I have thought about what kind of power I'll need, I asked somewhere in the beginners section awhile back, and then I asked Dennis as well. Right now, I'm thinking I'll use my AVR to power everything else, and I just bought an ABI 800.2 amp for about $500 bucks. It's only about a year old and they retail for about $1600 I think?

Should be more than enough I think.

In all the things I've auditioned, I have not heard a TL cabinet. I think you need to stop I only sent the check out today must be zen and block out all these good things I'm hearing because it seems like an eternity until I get them.

Thanks for the kind words swerd and ADTG.

Also, ADTG those shiny red ones you got are gorgeous I've been reading along on the Phil thread through you ordering them, to Del finishing the cabinets, to finally getting them. Now I guess I have to go through that rocking back and forth in anticipation process myself. Can't wait

Let me know when you get them, since you're not coming down I am coming up. I'd love to hear those. Might have to get a pair for myself. I am in need of a new pair of towers anyway. If they can take that AB amp at +6db I'm in.

 

[fuzz092888]

Now now Walter, I haven't given up plans to come down and see you. I'll be sure to let you know when they arrive, should be sometime in late May or sometime in June depending on how busy Del gets between the shop and Phil orders.

 

[Swerd]

I think you need to stop I only sent the check out today must be zen and block out all these good things I'm hearing because it seems like an eternity until I get them.

Now I guess I have to go through that rocking back and forth in anticipation process myself. Can't wait

The time will just fly right by .