Cave sound "mode" comes and goes with Pioneer VSX-820

[manolain]

Hello guys,

Just registered in the forum, because I need some advise on some "X-file" I am having in my receiver. I am really newbie to amps, receivers and this kind of stuff, some I really hope you can help me out

The model is Pioneer VSX-820. When playing digital content in standard mode, the sound goes to some kind of echo. With no intervention from me, this comes and goes with no pattern. If I set mode to stereo, does not happen. It does not happen either for RCA inputs.

Better than this explanation, please watch following video I just recorded. When the problem arises, I turn into stereo, then again standard, and then just do nothing...as you can hear, the echo comes and goes. The camera of course did not take the sound very well, but at 1:17 the change is quite clear

As this is my first message in the forum and I cant post URL's, please look for me in youtube as:

- My user is manolaincadista and the video title is Echo Sound problem pioneer VSX-820
- The video ID in the URL is X6DxFuxZs1w


I bought the gear just 1,5 years ago, and never happened before. And no matter which file I pick to watch, happens with almost anything. Actually, this was happening for other input (a DVD+hard disc player) that was connected by optical cable. Thought it was problem with the player, and changed to RCA audio connection, problem was gone. Now, as you can see, happening with Asus player (which is connected via HDMI cable)

If you pay attention to the video, when it seems to be working fine, there are actually some microcuts (I might be paranoid, but I think they are there, and whats more, they happen periodically).

I am feeling very frustated about this, hope you guys can give some advise

Thanks very much in advanced

 

[manolain]

Guys, let me give you more details about this:

This is URL for video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6DxFuxZs1w

- This problem came to my attention when playing content coming from a mediacenter, Asus OPlay HD2

- Asus is configured as audio output 'Raw HDMI'

- The situation is even worse: if you see my youtube video in first post, the sounds comes and goes, now, it barely sounds at all

- I changed HDMI input port in pioneer, tried all of them, problem remains the same

- I am using same HDMI to cable to swap between the Asus and a Play3. The first one does not work I just told you, but the Play3 sounds nicely, as expected

- Well....it seems to be a problem with Asus OPlay...but I directly connected this one to TV, bypassing the Pioneer...the result is perfect hearing (obviously, **** quality), but no cave sound, no 'clicks', no disruptions....total normal audition, best poor TV speakers can


I am really sorry to be bothering you, but I dont really know what else to do. This is a problem for me: I made a great investment summing Asus, Pioneer and speakers, and now....I cant use them!!

Thanks very much guys for your attention and assistance!

 

[Adam]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

I don't have an answer for you, but I wanted to welcome you and bump your thread to see if anyone else has an idea.

 

[manolain]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

I don't have an answer for you, but I wanted to welcome you and bump your thread to see if anyone else has an idea.

If someone with over 21000 posts in this experts forum does not have an answer for me....I am pretty screwed!!

Anyway, thanks very much Adam for both concerning and kicking me up!

 

[adwilk]

Yeah, welcome to the forum..

Check out page 3-10 of the manual... (pg 54 on PDF) and take a look at the audio playback options. Perhaps HDMI Raw isn't the best choice. Perhaps SPDIF might be a better option.. LPCM or Raw.. If it were me, I'd try all of them... Perhaps your receiver just doesnt like the signal its getting..

 

[adwilk]

If someone with over 21000 posts in this experts forum does not have an answer for me....I am pretty screwed!!

He bumps a lot of threads... its the age old quality vs quantity debate...

He knows I'm kidding. You should too.

 

[adwilk]

Also, if you get it figured out, I'd love to know what you think of that Asus gadget. I kinda want one.

 

[manolain]

Yeah, welcome to the forum..

Check out page 3-10 of the manual... (pg 54 on PDF) and take a look at the audio playback options. Perhaps HDMI Raw isn't the best choice. Perhaps SPDIF might be a better option.. LPCM or Raw.. If it were me, I'd try all of them... Perhaps your receiver just doesnt like the signal its getting..

Believe me adwilk I tried all Asus playback options for HDM: raw, LPCM and multichannel LPCM, result was exactly the same for the three of them
Besides that, up to this very week, since I bought the mediacenter, I have been using the same configuration and now, all of a sudden, does not work any longer (even with files I could perfectly hear just 10 days ago)

Things I want to do now:
- Using optical or SPDIF cable to output sound from Asus media to receiver
- Completely restart receiver to its original factory defaults

Also, if you get it figured out, I'd love to know what you think of that Asus gadget. I kinda want one.

Well, I am not such an expert geek like you guys, but of course I can give you my opinion so far with this Asus

- Reads almost everything (I have some problems with a few files I could hear but not see or otherwise, but they were just minimum)
- Very easy interface, three clicks and you are watching your content
- For me, in the buying decission, was critical that I can have a 2TB inner HD (now, with new firmware, up to 3TB)
- Never used with ethernet/wireless connection, so I can't tell you anything about this (I guess now megaupload is not present anymore, this is not so important), I always load content to the HD via USB
- I know of quite a few people that were unhappy with it and returned, definately not my case. One of the most common complaints was that new firmware versions were actually screwing more things that those fixed

You can find thousands of comments about it in here:

[Oficial] Asus O!Play HD2 - Página 25

It is in Spanish, but nothing you cannot sort out with Google

Anything in particular you want to know?

He bumps a lot of threads... its the age old quality vs quantity debate...

He knows I'm kidding. You should too.

Haha, no worries, got you

 

[adwilk]

Interesting... For some reason, I have my doubts that its the receiver- but you never know... Sounds like you're going the right direction with troubleshooting. Would definitely be curious if using optical fixes the problem.

 

[manolain]

New update on this guys:

I reseted Pioneer receiver to factory defaults, and now is playing better (yesterday there was no sound at all for this particular channel), with longer interval between errors, but I guess it is just a matter of time to be malfunctioning as it was yesterday

As I said, gear was working fine until last days, when it started to show these errors, until yesterday, which stopped working for this input

One more detail: checking manual today I saw that receiver needs to have at least 40 cm above it to avoid heating, and it is something I did not observe (I put into closed furniture with hardly 4-5 cm above receiver). As the receiver is working fine with other inputs (PS3, RCA audio players, ...) I guess this is not root cause of problem, what do you think?

 

[manolain]

New tests I did today, to see if they can help you to help me

- I connected Asus mediacentre to Pioneer amplifier either with HDMI, optical and coaxial. Result for these three connections was the same misfunction you can see in the first post video

- According to wikipedia, PS3 cannot output raw, so it always codifies to dolby, DTS or PCM. This means tha hearing PS3 correctly does not neccesary means that Pioneer amplifier is working fine (if I understands correctly, as the signal comes codified instead of raw, Pioneer does nothing with it)
Actually, pioneer behaves differently. When playing content from Asus, the amplifier "detects" the codec and reports it in its dispaly (DTS, Dolby....) as the Pioneer is set in Auto Direct. Being in this same configuration, when playing PS3 blu-rays, the Pioneer gear does not say anything about the codec it is display, it seems is just outputting signal as it comes

- I did an additional test with a recorder-DVD-player (configured as Bitstream for either dolby, DTS and MPEG) I do own as well, playing some content from its internal hard drive that was recorded from a signal coming from scart, and results were:
· When connected to Pioneer via HDMI cable, sound is OK in all speakers, no strange misfunctions
· When connected with optical cable, you can barely hear content 4-5 seconds before it completely goes mute (no comes and goes, but just no sound at all)

Again, when play content from this last device, Pioneer display does not inform at all of codec from the input (same behaviour in that as when playing PS3)

This problem with the optical/DVDrecorder started a few days ago. I did not worry very much then: connected the recorder to Pioneer using a very good quality RCA cable (red and white for both channels) and since then, I can perfectly hear anything coming from that device

But now, I think this is telling me that problem is in the Pionner amplifier

What do you think guys? Does this make things clearer or more messy?

Thanks very much for your help again!

 

[manolain]

Guys,

Come back with this issue. I took the receiver to Pioneer official support service, told me they tested and everything was fine, no problems at all

To me, it feels like they did not test a raw sound input coming in, to check who Pioneer receiving is coding it. I want to think they are professional, but as there are some contractual issues involved (gear is less than two years old, Pioneer gives guarantee for one year, second one is on the vendor....) and they just kick the problem out

It sounds to me a very big coincidence that both my mediacenter and my DVDrecorder got screwed at the same time, I was completely unable to get both working through HDMI inputs

Anyway, problem is not over at all, so now I will try to get some other mediacenter from somebody else, and test the Pioneer again

From this test, I have two possible results:

a) my multimedia center is screwed and now I have to claim for this to be repaired / sustituied (again, getting the invoice, claim for guarantee....)

or, even worse,

b) the Pioneer is screwed, and now I need to show these guys from support that I did the test with two mediacenter and the receiver is still misworking


Summing up, I am either worried and very pissed off

What you guys think about the whole thing?

 

[manolain]

Well, this is amazing.

I went to Pioneer official support, and leave them my multimedia player, to test same configuration I have at home. After 3-4 days having the disc playing a lot of different files, they finally call me: "it did not fail at all". WTF???????

After this, I go back to support, this time, carrying my DVDrecorder. We tested there, with either RCA and optical connection. Again, no fails or problems at all!!

Thank God I recorded the video showing the problem, otherwise, you and they would think I am just crazy!

I took all my stuff and went back home, set everything up as it was in the beginning of ages, and....¡WORKING FINE!!

I dont know if I have to be happy because it is working back (let's see for how long) or if I have to go mad because such huge amount of time I wasted on this (testing at home, coming and going to Pioneer support....)

Well, I will keep you posted if new things happen. Again, thanks very much for your concern and comments!!

 

[Grador]

Welcome to the wonderful world of computers! You say doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is insanity? I say it's how I've fixed more software problems on my HTPC than any other method.

Yes it's probably the most frustrating outcome, but it's good to hear that things are working.

 

[manolain]

Welcome to the wonderful world of computers! You say doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is insanity? I say it's how I've fixed more software problems on my HTPC than any other method.

Yes it's probably the most frustrating outcome, but it's good to hear that things are working.

Well, here I am back. Again, suffering problems. After one week with everything working fine, now, in total random time, the receiver is doing kind of noise I cant describe in English, just check for yourselves:

Pioneer VSX820 malfunctioning - YouTube

No pattern at all. Sometimes I just switch off/on and get it back, some days nothing happens, some days I just have to switch it off and wait for next day to see what will come

I cant be any more frustrated. What is the cause for this? What shall I do? I just bought this 1,5 years ago!!!

 

[Grador]

Give pioneer support one more try, after that I'm afraid you may have to replace at your own expense...

Upon looking back at this I have a [terrible] theory of what could be going wrong here. So your PS3 sends PCM audio, does not need to be 'decoded' per se, unlike DD or DTS (or did you try to get your asus to send PCM?). The processor responsible for decoding could be on it's way out causing these issues. No matter what it is i highly doubt it's a repairable issue, for you or pioneer they'd just give you a 'new' referb.

 

[manolain]

Give pioneer support one more try, after that I'm afraid you may have to replace at your own expense...

Upon looking back at this I have a [terrible] theory of what could be going wrong here. So your PS3 sends PCM audio, does not need to be 'decoded' per se, unlike DD or DTS (or did you try to get your asus to send PCM?). The processor responsible for decoding could be on it's way out causing these issues. No matter what it is i highly doubt it's a repairable issue, for you or pioneer they'd just give you a 'new' referb.

Actually PS3 is by far the source I use less. I normally try Asus multicenter o DVDRecorder, both set to send raw signal

 

[Grador]

Raw means that it is bit-streaming, or so I have just read, letting the receiver do the decoding. I was just putting the ps3 statement in since that seemed to work before.

 

[manolain]

Raw means that it is bit-streaming, or so I have just read, letting the receiver do the decoding. I was just putting the ps3 statement in since that seemed to work before.

You are right Grador

Now, PS3 is misfunctioning too. I did not get this crazy output you saw on the video (it is a matter of chance), but last time I tested PS3, I could hear micro-cuts in the sound

 

[TLS Guy]

Raw means that it is bit-streaming, or so I have just read, letting the receiver do the decoding. I was just putting the ps3 statement in since that seemed to work before.

I agree Grador, the processor board is toast.

The key is running it without proper ventilation.

All solid state devices have a time temps curve before failure, and the temp curve is an exponential one.

He has punched some holes in the semiconductor wafers and opening up intermittent (soon to be permanent) in likely, the micro processor.

Unfortunately manolian has had some expensive education in semiconductor failure.

This type of problem is not worth fixing. My best advice is to take this unit to the recycling center and order a new one. This problem can not be laid at Pioneer's door.