Would I benefit from a new cd player....

[flyboylr45]

I'm using an old Adcom gcd-750 cd player which I bought new when I was 16 ( about 16 years ago) after saving for a while and was my first "high-end" audio purchase. I'm sure there have been pretty huge leaps in DACs since that player was manufactured. The player works as good as when I bought it. In my 2 channel system, would I benefit from an upgrade? My room is strictly for stereo and is treated with acoustic panels. Any suggestions on cd players? Would there be that much of a difference in DACs?

 

[templemaners]

I think you'd be better off ripping your CD's into FLAC or some other high quality format and using a music server. That's really the way to go.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I'm sure there have been pretty huge leaps in DACs since that player was manufactured. The player works as good as when I bought it. In my 2 channel system, would I benefit from an upgrade?...

I seriously doubt it. But, if you need some flexibility that your older player doesn't have but need it and a new one does, then there is no question but hunt for that flexibility.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm using an old Adcom gcd-750 cd player which I bought new when I was 16 ( about 16 years ago) after saving for a while and was my first "high-end" audio purchase. I'm sure there have been pretty huge leaps in DACs since that player was manufactured. The player works as good as when I bought it. In my 2 channel system, would I benefit from an upgrade? My room is strictly for stereo and is treated with acoustic panels. Any suggestions on cd players? Would there be that much of a difference in DACs?

You are almost certainly fine. I just sold a player from 1984. I bench tested it, and it is the equal of any player now, in terms of sound quality and better than most.

 

[Irvrobinson]

The Adcom uses a Pacific Microsonics digital filter, which is the same part used in Mark Levinson CD players of that generation. So pretty good stuff. The Burr-Brown DAC is not state-of-the-art by current standards, but it ought to be more than good enough for CDs.

The only digital trick the Adcom seems to be missing is some sort of jitter control circuitry, like Benchmark Media uses. I can't predict if you'll believe you hear a difference. In the time frame the Adcom was designed I used to believe I could hear differences between CD players (and DAC units, for that matter). I'm also convinced I can hear a difference between the analog output of the Emotiva ERC-2 I use as a CD transport and the Benchmark DAC1 HDR I use as a DAC/pre-amp. Of course, with the Emotiva providing the analog output there's an extra set of analog cables and connections, and an extra amplification stage in the loop, and that's a more likely cause for any real audible difference than any digital artifact. Or, I could be imagining the differences.

The Adcom's output stage supports balanced connections, which usually means they've put more thought into the analog driver stage than usual, but I haven't examined a schematic to set if it's truly using differential circuitry, or just a converter circuit at the output.

There's also the chance of some capacitor degradation in the Adcom after 16 years, so it might not be performing exactly as new. But just a chance.

If you insist on trying something new, two options offer money-back guarantees:

1. The Emotiva ERC-2 CD player for $450 shipped. It's close to SOTA, with a true differential output stage.

2. The Benchmark DAC-1 for $995, and use the Adcom as a transport. It is truly SOTA when fed into an integrated amp like yours. If you don't need the money back guarantee you get from ordering from the manufacturer, Guitar Center runs periodic general specials that uniquely (to my knowledge) includes Benchmark Media products.

The question is: why do you think there might be an improvement to be had?

 

[flyboylr45]

Well, I notice that this systems very revealing. There is a huge difference in sound between bad recordings and good recordings. I'm thinking that the system is revealing enough that I would be able to hear a difference between my 16 year old player's DACs and a more current SOTA player. I'd like to listen to a few in my system before making a decision. And lastly, upgradeitis. This system is all new with the exception of the cd player. BTW, the adcom has a coaxial digital input so I can use the DACs and run a digital signal to it but it doesn't have a digital out. It cannot be used as a Transport.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Well, I notice that this systems very revealing. There is a huge difference in sound between bad recordings and good recordings. I'm thinking that the system is revealing enough that I would be able to hear a difference between my 16 year old player's DACs and a more current SOTA player. I'd like to listen to a few in my system before making a decision. And lastly, upgradeitis. This system is all new with the exception of the cd player. BTW, the adcom has a coaxial digital input so I can use the DACs and run a digital signal to it but it doesn't have a digital out. It cannot be used as a Transport.

How unfortunate about the Adcom... no digital output, only an input? Now that's confidence in the DAC section! I should have also read the owners manual more closely.

Upgradeitis should be avoided, unless you have money you don't need. I understand upgradeitis. I don't recommend it, but I understand it.

How much different recordings sound, even good recordings, is an indicator of revealing speakers I've used for years. If every recording, for example, sounds a little bright, you know the speaker is doing something undesirable. But that doesn't necessarily mean that just because you have a revealing system you need a new CD player. Perhaps you can get your McIntosh dealer to lend you his demo MCD301 for an evening to see how it sounds in your system. Be careful, though, that's how I ended up buying a Mark Levinson CD player in 1997.

 

[flyboylr45]

I was looking at the mcd-500 and the esoteric sa-50. I have a dealer that ordered a new one and will let me try it at home in my system. I know upgradeitis is dangerous but after this upgrade this room is done. I was thinking of getting the wadia 171 and running it through the dacs on the new player if I decide to buy one.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I was looking at the mcd-500 and the esoteric sa-50. I have a dealer that ordered a new one and will let me try it at home in my system. I know upgradeitis is dangerous but after this upgrade this room is done. I was thinking of getting the wadia 171 and running it through the dacs on the new player if I decide to buy one.

This is the way to go. Just don't be afraid to say you can't really hear any difference, because you may not.

 

[flyboylr45]

Lol lol. Very true. I may not "hear" a difference but I'll definitely "see" the difference in both esthetics and wallet!!!!! ;-). We'll see. How would I set up a dbt at home? I guess have two identical CDs and play them at the same time connected to different inputs and have my wife switch them from the remote? The problem I see if they would not be level matched and the louder one would most likely be perceived as the better one. Any suggestions?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Lol lol. Very true. I may not "hear" a difference but I'll definitely "see" the difference in both esthetics and wallet!!!!! ;-). We'll see. How would I set up a dbt at home? I guess have two identical CDs and play them at the same time connected to different inputs and have my wife switch them from the remote? The problem I see if they would not be level matched and the louder one would most likely be perceived as the better one. Any suggestions?

No suggestions. Even a tiny difference in levels can lead you to a false impression of superiority. You know what the Adcom sounds like. I'd spend an evening listening to the new source and go by instinct. If it sounds better you'll know it after a couple of hours. If not, make your decision on esthetics, which I'm not at all discounting the value of. That Emotiva player I mentioned that I use as a transport *is* clunky, and there are times I'm thinking I'd just rather have something that looks and feels better.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Lol lol. Very true. I may not "hear" a difference but I'll definitely "see" the difference in both esthetics and wallet!!!!! ;-). We'll see. How would I set up a dbt at home? I guess have two identical CDs and play them at the same time connected to different inputs and have my wife switch them from the remote? The problem I see if they would not be level matched and the louder one would most likely be perceived as the better one. Any suggestions?

Not an easy job unless you have the know how. Different inputs and outputs may have different volume levels that will manifest itself as one being better, not one being louder.
At the minimum, you would need an accurate volt meter, a test tone CD to measure single tone's voltage at the speaker terminal for each input and output which needs to be withing 1%; if not, the capacity to level them. SPL meter is not good enough.
So, off the bat, it is not easy. But, give it a try what you are able to do, have the wife randomly switch, or not, record which you think it is and at the end, compare your answers with hers; she also needs to record or have a random list prepared ahead of time for her switching.
9 of 10, 12 of 15 guesses will show something.

 

[Irvrobinson]

It just occurred to me how high-end your system is. I get the feeling you think the Adcom is out of place in it, from a build quality and ergo point of view. If that's part of the issue, I agree. As I mentioned I'm getting increasingly annoyed with my ERC-2 over the same issue. It's just difficult for me to invest a lot of money in digital sources when I know the world will be different in a few years and I'll want something else.

 

[flyboylr45]

That is part of it. I'm definitely not going to spend $6,000 if there is no difference in sound quality, but I'm curious if there would be a noticeable change. I definitely noticed it from a cheap old Techniques turntable to my current Clearaudio Concept. I think the difference in the cd player will be less noticeable but I'm still very curious. These are my toys and my main hobby and I spend hours on my off days just listening to music. I definitely know the aesthetics difference is huge but I won't base a purchase this size on aesthetics only.

 

[compcond]

I purchased a DAC 1 HDR about 2 months ago to replace a Conrad-Johnson d/a-2b DAC, a DR-1 transport, and an SC-26 preamp and I strongly suspect the answer to your question is "yes."

That being said you would be looking at the DAC 1 USB, not the HDR since you already have a preamp (the benefit of the HDR is that it eliminates the preamp and an interconnect). I would purchase it direct from Benchmark so you can return it if you feel it isn't an improvement.

Finally, do yourself a favor a pick up a Logitech Squeezebox Touch and a 64GB USB thumb drive for under 3 bills. It will look completely stupid in your system but I did it and am completely unable to hear any difference between a CD played on the C-J transport and off the Squeezebox via coax digital to the HDR. CDs were ripped to Flac using Exact Audio Copy. I am, however, able to hear the difference between an original CD and a CD copy.

And it's really nice to not have to handle CDs.

Finally, once you've done all that you should pay a visit to hdtracks.com. 24/96 beats the living Bose out of RedBook CD.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I'm definitely not going to spend $6,000 if there is no difference in sound quality, but I'm curious if there would be a noticeable change. I definitely noticed it from a cheap old Techniques turntable to my current Clearaudio Concept.....

Are those both turntables? No wonder there are differences. As to audible sound differences of your question, You'd be very hard pressed to tell in properly controlled testing and certainly not $6k worth in my estimation.

 

[TLS Guy]

That is part of it. I'm definitely not going to spend $6,000 if there is no difference in sound quality, but I'm curious if there would be a noticeable change. I definitely noticed it from a cheap old Techniques turntable to my current Clearaudio Concept. I think the difference in the cd player will be less noticeable but I'm still very curious. These are my toys and my main hobby and I spend hours on my off days just listening to music. I definitely know the aesthetics difference is huge but I won't base a purchase this size on aesthetics only.

You have to understand that digital audio is in no way comparable to analog.

Bits are bits, and the difference you will here between players is almost entirely dependent on the analog circuits. If you take a good player from 1984 and one made today, I bet you won't tell the difference.

Turntables are totally different and totally dependent on precision engineering and manufacture. So your Technics and the Clearaudio are light years apart.

However I could easily demonstrate to you some fine vintage turntables that would best your Clearaudio turntable. It is all down to precision engineering. Not so with digital audio. However longevity and reliability are different issues.

 

[PENG]

That is part of it. I'm definitely not going to spend $6,000 if there is no difference in sound quality, but I'm curious if there would be a noticeable change. I definitely noticed it from a cheap old Techniques turntable to my current Clearaudio Concept. I think the difference in the cd player will be less noticeable but I'm still very curious. These are my toys and my main hobby and I spend hours on my off days just listening to music. I definitely know the aesthetics difference is huge but I won't base a purchase this size on aesthetics only.

Just an aside, did you really believe that much in synergy, that you needed that Mc amp to tame that Be tweeter? I hope that wasn't the reason because I think I found a cheaper/better way to do it.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Bits are bits, and the difference you will here between players is almost entirely dependent on the analog circuits. If you take a good player from 1984 and one made today, I bet you won't tell the difference.

Not to my ears. Not even close. BTW, isn't that Revox you've posted about a 225, which is a 14bit machine? Or am I wrong?

 

[flyboylr45]

Just an aside, did you really believe that much in synergy, that you needed that Mc amp to tame that Be tweeter? I hope that wasn't the reason because I think I found a cheaper/better way to do it.

To tame the BE tweeter?? Is it because you think it is "bright"? I ran those speakers with a small Emotiva x-100 integrated, my rotel processor and amplifier and then the mac and never thought they were bright. I don't know if it's because the room is treated, but I never have gotten the impression that they were bright. I tell you what though, in my untreated family room, my Monito Audio S6 and the rotel processor / amp combo sounded bright to me.

I bought the amp for many reasons. I like the way it sounds, looks, feels and brand name.

TLSguy,

I understand about digital and analog. So in essence, on any given cd player or digital source, what you're really hearing is the difference in DACs and their implementation. Correct? That is what brought me initially to this question. In a 16 year period of time, will the advances in DAC technology be audibly noticeable in a revealing system? I'm actually going to try and see if i can tell a difference between my Marantz DV7001 and the Adcom gcd-750. Once I get the new player to demo it at home, I'll leave all 3 connected and try to hear a difference. Who knows.... Either way it'll be a fun experiment for me.