My ER18 build

[mattsk8]

About to get the ball rolling on this. I have just a couple questions before I begin.

I'd like to do a roundover (or maybe beaded corners, not sure how I'd incorporate em yet though) on these so I'm going to join cherry to all the edges of my baffles, tops and bottoms. Then I can veneer and roundover. The end product will be a cherry finish to match my pool table.

Here's my question. If I change the aesthetics of the front baffle, will this affect the speakers intended performance? Nothing changes as far as inner cabinet dimensions are concerned. I'd like to basically reverse what they do w/ the front baffle. When I'm done, the front baffle will still be 1 1/4" thick where the speakers mount. I want to do this so I can make a grill thats flush w/ the rest of the front of the speaker. It doesn't have to be this way, I was just having a hard time envisioning how to put a grill on the part of the baffle where the speakers mount w/out it looking like it sticks out too far. Going over things in my head, I think the grill would have to be at least about 3/8" thick once it's wrapped w/ grill cloth. If I do it the way the pic I posted shows, I can make the speaker grill's frame out of cherry and use the magnets to fasten it. Once the grill's on, all the corners on the front of the speaker will be solid cherry. And the grill cloth will cover just the front of the speakers.

This is my first attempt at google sketchup and it took me about 3 hours to figure all of it out! I hope in time I'll get a bit better!

Came up w/ what my son and I think is a better plan. They'd look almost exactly like the songtowers or veracitys this way. Basically the front baffle would be flush from top to bottom, but when the grill is installed it would stick out either 1/2" or 3/4". The only wall I'm running into w/ this design is that it'll be tough to incorporate a roundover w/out it looking funny. A bevel would be fairly simple to pull off, but that look is a little to modern for where these are going. They really need a roundover. I'll come up w/ something...

 

[TheWarrior]

From reading the Loudspeaker Cookbook, I have learned that a having a baffle with a beveled edge equal to its thickness, will produce a better result.

Looking at your design, you'll have your veneer sides glue to the back of the baffle, as opposed to the baffle gluing in to the veneer.

 

[Swerd]

If I understand what you're saying, you want to recess the black area shown in your drawings, instead of making it stand forward by ¾". I don't think I've ever seen a speaker with that, and I couldn't predict how that might change the sound. My first instinct is to say don't change the flush mounted the drivers.

But you could easily make the front baffle full length, or with the shorter black section (but not recessed) as shown.

I've never made hardwood round overs on veneered MDF front baffles, but I have seen how one shop did do it:

1. First veneer the MDF sheets for the front baffles. Magnets are recessed into the MDF beneath the veneer.
2. Then glue on hardwood strips (roughly 1×1) to all 4 edges, with mitered corners.
3. Flush trim the hardwood edges even with the baffle's surfaces.
4. Cut out holes and recesses for drivers.
5. Round over the hardwood edges.
6. Glue these front baffles onto the cabinets and flush trim again if needed.

I hope that's clear. I'll search for photos of that.

I don't know exactly how Salk builds them, but the final product looks like these

 

[mattsk8]

If I understand what you're saying, you want to recess the black area shown in your drawings, instead of making it stand forward by ¾". I don't think I've ever seen a speaker with that, and I couldn't predict how that might change the sound. My first instinct is to say don't change the flush mounted the drivers.

But you could easily make the front baffle full length, or with the shorter black section (but not recessed) as shown.

I've never made hardwood round overs on veneered MDF front baffles, but I have seen how one shop did do it:

1. First veneer the MDF sheets for the front baffles. Magnets are recessed into the MDF beneath the veneer.
2. Then glue on hardwood strips (roughly 1×1) to all 4 edges, with mitered corners.
3. Flush trim the hardwood edges even with the baffle's surfaces.
4. Cut out holes and recesses for drivers.
5. Round over the hardwood edges.
6. Glue these front baffles onto the cabinets and flush trim again if needed.

I hope that's clear. I'll search for photos of that.

Actually in the second pic on the bottom I eliminated the recess. The whole front baffle is flush, top to bottom. The grill would protrude from the front, probably just like the veracitys. And after thinking some more, I'll probably eliminate the black portion of the baffle as well and just make the whole front one piece of cherry to keep it simple; once again, just like the veracitys you posted a pic of.

I get what you're saying except for the mitered corners on the strips in step 2. My understanding (and I'm definitely not trying to school anyone, just trying to figure it out) is that I edge glue cherry strips all the way around the edges of the MDF for the front baffle; and like you said, the strips are about 1" thick and this is done pre-veneer. I would then edge glue 2 strips to the sides of the piece for the top of the cabinet as well as doing the baffle. Before I did all of this, I would make sure the pieces w/ the solid cherry strips glued to them were about 1/8" or so wider than they needed to be. Then I assemble everything, flush trim the edges of the cabinet (trim off the 1/8" of cherry) so everything's uniform and flush. I now have a speaker cabinet that's basically MDF w/ cherry corners on the front and top. Then I would veneer it like I was just going to leave it all square, w/out a roundover (I now just covered all the cherry strips w/ the cherry veneer). Then, after I trim all the veneer and make everything nice and square, I can round over the corners and the cherry strips shine through.

Hope that made sense and I definitely may be wrong but that was how I perceived it being done.

Thanks for the help BTW Swerd!!

 

[Swerd]

I get what you're saying except for the mitered corners on the strips in step 2. My understanding (and I'm definitely not trying to school anyone, just trying to figure it out) is that I edge glue cherry strips all the way around the edges of the MDF for the front baffle; and like you said, the strips are about 1" thick and this is done pre-veneer. I would then edge glue 2 strips to the sides of the piece for the top of the cabinet as well as doing the baffle. Before I did all of this, I would make sure the pieces w/ the solid cherry strips glued to them were about 1/8" or so wider than they needed to be. Then I assemble everything, flush trim the edges of the cabinet (trim off the 1/8" of cherry) so everything's uniform and flush. I now have a speaker cabinet that's basically MDF w/ cherry corners on the front and top. Then I would veneer it like I was just going to leave it all square, w/out a roundover (I now just covered all the cherry strips w/ the cherry veneer). Then, after I trim all the veneer and make everything nice and square, I can round over the corners and the cherry strips shine through.

The way I once saw it done, the MDF sheets were veneered before adding the hardwood strips. The strips formed a frame, with mitered corners, around the front baffle. Both the front and back surfaces of the frame around the front baffle were trimmed flush to baffle's veneered front & unveneered back surface, and then rounded over on the front side. Only after all that, was is glued to the cabinet.

Your method sounds like it could also work. Like most things in woodwork, there's more than one way to get it done. It depends what works best in your hands, with your tools.

Before I ever tried that, I would test the method with cheap veneer on scrap MDF. I'd be surprised if my description above didn't have to be modified.

 

[mattsk8]

Before I ever tried that, I would test the method with cheap veneer on scrap MDF. I'd be surprised if my description above didn't have to be modified.

Once again, thanks! I for sure will do that! How disappointing would it be to get those all done, then roundover the corners and find out the glue or something shines through a bit and won't take stain, or some other catastrophy that I'm not even thinking of! I'll definitely go get a small piece of veneer and give it a whirl before I build the cabinets. Just got to get over to Woodcraft sometime soon.

I've never worked w/ veneer. I always used preveneered 1/4" ply when I built kitchen cabinets or used solid hardwood so this will definitely be a learning experience for me.

 

[mattsk8]

New plan. I was going to wait till I finished building the ER18s and maybe the Zaphs before I finished the exterior of any of the builds I've done so far. I think instead, I'll practice on the Tritrix just so I can get some ideas. So, I'm going to finish the Tritrix right now before I build the ER18s.

The plan for the Tritrix-
I have some 3 1/2" wide maple that was a subfloor in an old farmhouse I remodeled. Since I got the maple, I've stripped the old finish and garbage off it, so it's raw wood now. It looks like regular maple, but has a darker petina because of it's age and also has very fine cracks that give it nice character. I also have a resaw. I'm going to resaw the maple down to 5/16" or so then finish plane it down to 1/4". Then I'll glue it to the cabinets. I also have some vintage black grill cloth that I'll use; might look dumb but I can always redo it if I want.

My original plan for the Tritrix was to paint them satin or flat black and get crazy w/ some grill ideas and maybe a skull and crossbones or a rat bones sign carved into the front. I might still do that, but they won't just be paint over the MDF. I'm going to stain the maple w/ spanish oak or ebony, whatever's blacker and still lets some of the grain and character of the wood shine through. I'll post pics of progress...

 

[mattsk8]

After a little horsing around...

The machine-

The maple I'm going to resaw-

After feeding it through the resaw-

I realize this will go one of 2 ways; it'll either look sharp or really dumb. Not sure how the 3" strips are going to look on the 15" deep sides of the speakers. I'm not overly concerned because they'll just be in my garage and I'm having fun

 

[TheWarrior]

Keep posting, I've got learning to do

 

[mattsk8]

Another new plan. That old growth maple is hard as a rock and doesn't resaw worth the crap! I've done about 5 boards so far and already found 4 nails and tripped my breaker 3 times. I guess better to find the nails w/ the resaw than w/ the planer ! Giving up on that wood for the speakers. The crazy thing about the nails is that I've been over those boards about 4 times now. I keep finding ones that the heads broke off and are buried in the boards. I need a lumber wizard.

I have some soft maple left over from a painted kitchen I did. I'll just resaw that. I'll post pics of progress and figure out a finish for it later...

 

[mattsk8]

The soft maple went quite a bit smoother than the old maple. Cutting through nails w/ my bandsaw blade didn't exactly help to speed the process along, but I still managed. One thing to learn if you're just getting into building speakers and only want to build one set- Map out EVERY detail BEFORE you build! Right down to the kind of finish you want. It makes things a LOT easier!

Here's progress. So far I've got what I think is enough maple resawn (as long as I don't screw any of my cuts up). Tomorrow I hope to feed it through the planer...

 

[mattsk8]

If you can see the front of the tritrix cabinets, you'll notice the endgrain of the MDF is on the face. I did buy the precut cabinets from PE and that saved more time than what I'm about to rant about, but this is a lesson in planning your build before you begin.

If I would have thought the entire build out before I began it, I would have cut the MDF so the endgrain was on the edge of the speaker as opposed to the face of it. It would be easily buried by the veneer I just made. Instead, now I get to spend about 4 hours w/ some bondo before I can paint. The plan is to paint the face of the cabinets satin black around the speakers, basically from the top of the cabinet to just below the bottom speaker. Then I'll take the 1/4" thick veneer and start below the lower speaker and go to the bottom of the cabinet.

Also, I think what I'm going to do is bump the cabinet face below the speakers out w/ a piece of 1/2" MDF. Then when I go over it w/ the 1/4" veneer, it'll be 3/4" thick. I'll then make a grill that's 3/4" thick to go above it.

Pic of the Tritrix-

Wood coming out of the planer-

Boards finish planed to 1/4" thick. Started w/ 6- 3/4" thick boards, ended up w/ 11- 1/4" thick boards. Should've been 12 but a knot caused one of them to go straight south in the planer!-

 

[jinjuku]

Yep, I always cut for the exposed end to go on the sides if not using 45 degree miters. You could do a cosmetic baffle with 3/8 or 5/8ths board

 

[mattsk8]

Yep, I always cut for the exposed end to go on the sides if not using 45 degree miters. You could do a cosmetic baffle with 3/8 or 5/8ths board

Still toying w/ all the options. I may miter but it'll be tough to pull it all together if I make the cosmetic baffle stick out, know what I mean? I may have to have the 1/4" reveal.

Another idea I'm playing w/ is ripping the maple down to 3 3/4" strips and putting a 1/8" bevel on the edges. Then glue those strips to the sides of the tritrix cabinets. It would leave 3- 1/8" v grooves on each side of the cabinets. Then I'll stain w/ maybe spanish oak (or something else, undecided), then one coat of poly and glaze w/ a darker glaze that would enhance the v grooves. Then poly over that w/ another 2 coats. Who knows, still playing w/ all the different ideas.

 

[mattsk8]

I think I finally have this all mapped out. It should look pretty sharp (at least in my head it does ). I'd explain how I'm going to finish these but while dreaming it up my head almost exploded and I don't want to go back there . The hardest part for me was figuring out how to incorporate a grill w/out making it look like I just slapped it on as an after thought. I think I have it now. I'll post pics of progress and it should start to make sense as I go along.

Was hoping to get more done tonight. Wanted to at least have a coat of bondo over the end grain of the MDF where I plan on painting the cabinets black but I didn't get there. All I got done was sanding the cabs to perfectly flush and smooth. I had to figure out what I was going to do w/ the grills before I could bondo because I want to smooth the magnets (to hold the grills to the cabinets) into the finish. Now that I have the grills figured out, I'll cut those tomorrow, get the magnets mounted in the grills and the cabinets and hopefully get a coat of bondo on em.

Probably won't get to start gluing the maple to em till next week sometime. I have to first paint the front baffle around the speakers, the grill frames, and paint the backs of the cabinets satin black.

The cabinets all sanded begging for a coat of bondo-

 

[TheWarrior]

I may have missed this... what purpose does the bondo serve?

 

[jinjuku]

I may have missed this... what purpose does the bondo serve?

It fills up holes and imperfections.

 

[mattsk8]

I may have missed this... what purpose does the bondo serve?

For painted cabinets it's a great filler to use. There's definitely other fillers that work well too, but I used bondo on these because I wanted to seal the endgrain of the MDF.

Now I'm going to rant a bit more about putting the endgrain on the front baffle ! Don't do it! Ever! There's no good reason for it! The biggest problem I have now is I can't build the bondo up at all or the speaker cut outs will look dumb when the speakers are mounted (PE already cut the mounting area in a bit too deep). I managed but it's still a bit thin in a couple areas so I had to use a lot of primer. Also, it's pretty tough to sand all this around the speakers. Just running more of a risk for screwing something up. There, rant over

I have heard that brushing a bunch of polyurethane over the end grain works good too but I've never tried it. I would imagine it takes a bit more time that way just because polyurethane takes way longer to dry than bondo.

Here's a pic w/ the holes drilled for the magnets-

A pic w/ one coat sanded and the 2nd coat (got away w/ 2 coats) of bondo applied-

And a pic of the 1st coat of primer. You can see how the endgrain shines through where I sanded a little to deep but that will fill (eventually) w/ primer. I ended up w/ 3 coats of primer. Tomorrow I'll sand most of it off. That'll fill any minor imperfections in the wood or the bondo and make a perfectly smooth surface. Then I'll give it one more light coat of primer, scuff that w/ some 400 grit and it'll be ready for paint.

 

[TheWarrior]

Oh, I was thinking there was something more extravagant going on, nevermind then, carry on!

As for Polyurethane on MDF, I just used a waterbased version on my cabinet build. It works well, and dries in under 2 hours. You could apply light coats every 30 mins to seal the end grain.

For my cabinet, its good enough, but I really miss being able to spray in a clean room, instead of using a foam brush, outdoors, fully exposed to dust. I'll post pics tomorrow with all the components installed!

 

[mattsk8]

Oh, I was thinking there was something more extravagant going on, nevermind then, carry on!

As for Polyurethane on MDF, I just used a waterbased version on my cabinet build. It works well, and dries in under 2 hours. You could apply light coats every 30 mins to seal the end grain.

For my cabinet, its good enough, but I really miss being able to spray in a clean room, instead of using a foam brush, outdoors, fully exposed to dust. I'll post pics tomorrow with all the components installed!

Pics would be awesome! I hate painting. If it was the entire cabinet I would take it to a friend of mine that finishes and refinishes furniture but for something like this I'm doomed to do it myself .

Some of you might be wondering why I'm painting this before I veneer it. I want to get it all painted because I've never been good at masking, I always end up w/ the paint bleeding under the masking tape a teeny bit. This way I'll have a perfect line. Although, I do run the risk of bumping it during the finish process or burning it when I run my flush trim router bit over it to trim the veneer. Hope that doesn't happen.

Also, it would've made a lot more sense to cut the centers of my grill boards out before I mounted the magnets as well. Unfortunately I didn't have that luxury cuz my dad has my jig saw. I'll pick that up today and cut those tonight. Now I want a scroll saw. Never really had a need or a desire for one till now. Would work excellent for cutting the inside cut out for the speaker grills.