Budget: $2100 - ft^3:4,100 - Goal: Musical, tight, hit you in the gut bass

F

foooo

Audiophyte
Hey folks, I've been lurking for a few weeks, reading through popular threads
and have a few questions...

Right now I have a Paradigm Ultracube 10 that I have paired with Paradigm Monitor 7's for stereo music.

I'm using the new Marantz 7005 (w/audigy) which has two sub outs, so I don't *need* something with DSP.

After fiddling around with settings, adding some "superchunk" type bass traps and doing a lot of listening, I've come to the conclusion that I want more. More bass, tighter bass, more tuneful bass... etc.

This is my first post, so I can't add images or links (you'll need to cut and paste the address... sorry). But my room layout can be found here: imgur.com/a/gzErD

~4000 ft^3 of volume in the listening area

I'm having a lot of trouble with one basic idea. Sealed or ported.

For example, both the SVS and Rythmik products seem to have good specs, good reviews and acceptable aesthetics (Although I wish Rythmik still had rosenut!)

Do I go for the F15 ($1143 in gloss black) or the FV15 ($1143 but not available in gloss)? I can probably push my budget to fit two units. The website seems to say that the sealed units are for "audiophiles" (which seems to describe what I'm looking for.) But the site also says that "properly integrated" vented subs can get more bass. They also offer "HP" versions (sealed $1411, vented $1523) but that would mean I can only get a single sub.

Same for SVS. They have the SB13 Plus ($1100 gloss black) and the Ultra13 ($2100 cherry). In this case it would be 1 ultra 13 or two SB13-Plus units...

Getting a single unit has the advantage of being able to double down at a later point... but has the disadvantage of making it harder to deal with room behavior.

Of course, I'm open to any suggestions you may have.

Thanks, I appreciate your time and experience.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I'm using the new Marantz 7005 (w/audigy) which has two sub outs, so I don't *need* something with DSP.
The biggest advantage to DSP, just FYI, is not the built in EQ, but compression / limiting to make subwoofers "indestructable"!

~4000 ft^3 of volume in the listening area
I'm having a lot of trouble with one basic idea. Sealed or ported.
Depends how much you're willing to spend ;)

Do I go for the F15 ($1143 in gloss black) or the FV15 ($1143 but not available in gloss)? I can probably push my budget to fit two units. The website seems to say that the sealed units are for "audiophiles" (which seems to describe what I'm looking for.) But the site also says that "properly integrated" vented subs can get more bass. They also offer "HP" versions (sealed $1411, vented $1523) but that would mean I can only get a single sub.
Just save up a bit longer!!

Anyways sealed isn't any more for audiophiles. Good bass is about the integration, the in room response etc. Sealed vs Ported just tells you details like low end extension, cutoff rate, and box size. The sound quality is dominated by the room.

Same for SVS. They have the SB13 Plus ($1100 gloss black) and the Ultra13 ($2100 cherry). In this case it would be 1 ultra 13 or two SB13-Plus units...
Two FV15HPs :D :D
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
I've fallen in love with sealed subs and lust after a pair of ULS-15s.
 
F

foooo

Audiophyte
Interesting...

The ULS-15 DualDrive (basically a pair of ULS-15's) in real wood veneer, rosenut (with shipping) weighs in at $2,487.00.

Which is unfortunately, above my budget (which is firm and the budget wouldn't increase if I waited longer.)

However, a single sub in real wood veneer, rosenut (with shipping) tips the scales at a meager $1199.00. (And looks *much* better than the VTF-15H).

One thing I really like about these threads is that unlike reviews, we are able to compare different subs and discuss nuances...

If I'm looking at the following:
Code:
[LIST]
[*]ULS-15               HSU            $1,199   
[*]FV15HP-SE          Rythmik      $1,523   
[*]SVS SB13-PLUS    SVS            $1,199
[*]PB13-ULTRA        SVS            $2,100
[/LIST]
How would folks compare and contrast the sound?

Although the HSU is the best looking option... based on data and opinions from forums it seems like a single FV15HP-SE would sound the best.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The FV15HP and PB13 will have much more output than the ULS-15 or SB13. I think you should really look into Funk Audio, they would have stuff right up your alley. Another sub which looks like it would be great for you is the Elemental Designs A7s-650, but the wood finishes tragically put them over your budget by $50. You migh call them up and ask try to talk them down by $50 though, its worth a shot and you have nothing to lose (except your dignity). Anyway I would definitely call Nathan up at Funk Audio and explain your needs and ask him what he can do for you. His sub will be high performing and drop dead gorgeous.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
The FV15HP and PB13 will have much more output than the ULS-15 or SB13. I think you should really look into Funk Audio, they would have stuff right up your alley. Another sub which looks like it would be great for you is the Elemental Designs A7s-650, but the wood finishes tragically put them over your budget by $50. You migh call them up and ask try to talk them down by $50 though, its worth a shot and you have nothing to lose (except your dignity). Anyway I would definitely call Nathan up at Funk Audio and explain your needs and ask him what he can do for you. His sub will be high performing and drop dead gorgeous.
Funk Audio really better option for our northern neighbors and eD thou would have the punch and value, it's not known to be most transient response sub out this list..
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Warlord
I would suggest that you take a step back and examine your whole system before investing a big chunk into another subwoofer. You stated that your system is for "stereo music". If it is just for music, just be aware that there isn't much deep bass in most music. Pipe organ music certainly does. And some electronic music. But, most truly deep bass resides in the movie world. If you do want deeper extension for movies, then yes, you should look for something that'll go deeper then the Ultracube.

However, just consider that this thread has been discussing subwoofers that are 2 or 3 times the price of your mains! Probably 90% of music is coming from the mains, so if you want a well-balanced system, wouldn't you want your mains to be at least of the same quality as your subwoofer? If you're happy with the Monitor 7's (they are pretty decent speakers for their price), I would suggest that you at least consider looking for another Ultracube to even out the in-room frequency response and give you some more headroom.

Otherwise, I'd be quite hesitant to invest a substantial amount into a new, more capable subwoofer, before looking at my mains. Unless, of course, that's your long-term plan. If so, forget everything I said...:D

Oh, one last thing! If you, or someone you know, has even modest woodworking skills and access to a workshop, you can bang out an excellent subwoofer for half the cost of a commercial product.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
I would purchase the non-powered Funk Audio 18 ($1895 shipped), then grab a Behringer EP2500 (around $200ish) off ebay or snag a new Behringer EP4000 (about $350ish). I can't really think of a better subwoofer for around $2000. Of course, I'd pay the extra $200 for the LMS5400 driver, though the TSAD18v1 is very nice. I heard a DIY LMS5400 in a 24"^3 box and it literally destroyed the Submersize with the newer amplifier IMO.

18.0
BEHRINGER: EP4000
 
F

foooo

Audiophyte
I listen to a lot of electronic music, along with a healthy dose of organ and other things that go low. I play organ, tuba and bass guitar (among other things) so I've always enjoyed systems that have a lot of low end support.

Recently I went out and did a listening tour of local hi-fi shops in the Seattle/Bellevue area. Even with the *horrible* set ups (particularly for subs) I discovered new sounds that I hadn't heard or felt before.

That being said, I also use the system for video.

I remember when I switched from using Paradigm Titan's to the Reference 7's (for mains). That was a big jump for me. The added bass was a big change in realism and palpability... even for solo piano or a small jazz group (Joshua Redman Live at the Village Vanguard is a great example, not a lot of very deep bass, but the sense of being in the space really changes for me.) Then I switched out a lower end Paradigm Sub for the Utracube 10. Another big improvement.

My plan is to work on the high/mid range later. I have a pair of NHT SB3's that I listen to in near-field when I'm more interested in the high end, or I'm working on writing music or just goofing around on instruments... Also, as soon as the Ultracube get's replaced... it's going to join the NHT's downstairs...
 
F

foooo

Audiophyte
It looks like the 15.3 from Funk Audio (funkaudio.ca/Specials.html) might be a possibility.

Of course, I have no idea how it performs... but the cabinets are beautiful.

At $1800 ea shipped to the USA (I added $175 added for an amplifier upgrade, $125 for hardwood inlays and $100 for a speaker grill)... that comes well within budget.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I would purchase the non-powered Funk Audio 18 ($1895 shipped), then grab a Behringer EP2500 (around $200ish) off ebay or snag a new Behringer EP4000 (about $350ish). I can't really think of a better subwoofer for around $2000. Of course, I'd pay the extra $200 for the LMS5400 driver, though the TSAD18v1 is very nice. I heard a DIY LMS5400 in a 24"^3 box and it literally destroyed the Submersize with the newer amplifier IMO.

18.0
BEHRINGER: EP4000
It literally destroyed the Submersive? Was the Submersive able to be repaired, or was it a total loss?
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
It literally destroyed the Submersive? Was the Submersive able to be repaired, or was it a total loss?
Lol, good one. :) It must have been a total loss because the next time I went over there the Submersive was no where to be found.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Ha.... I don't know if I would go so far as say destroyed, but they were different, with the LMS being more accurate. The LMS starts and stops on a dime. Is so incredibly clean from top to bottom... truly the best sub I've ever heard or felt. which blends seamlessly crossed over at any setting perfectly..
 

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