Setting up 5.1 surround sound on HTR-6150

[cwineman]

I have an HTR-6150 and I'm trying to get 5.1 surround sound working correctly. I have L,R,center, and l-rear, r-rear speakers conntected. The first input source I'm trying to use is my cable box for now. For reference, here's a link to the manual for the tuner: hxxp://static.highspeedbackbone.net/pdf/Yamaha-HTR-6150BL-Manual.pdf

I can confirm that all of the speakers are connected and I can at least hear output from the tuner. Depending on what mode I'm in on the tuner I can hear output to all 5 speakers at once. But I'm not sure what I'm hearing is "surround" sound as opposed to simply the same output from the tuner being sent to all 5 speakers. I've tried the auto setup, but it fails with an error code:

E-5: CHECK SUR.
Don't use SP SP
without SURR SP

I'm not positive, but I think that the auto setup only supports 7.1, and it's not happy that I don't have surround left and right speakers connected. So I tried various things using manual setup, but I'm not sure I'm making any progress.

One thing in particular is bothering me. On the right side of the tuner display (See manual page 24 en #17) there is an area - Input channel and speaker indicators - that I'd assumed is suppose to indicate which speakers are connected and/or active at the moment. But maybe not. The word Input in there seems strange.

Right now when I look at it, it only has the L and R indicators on. When I used auto setup, those indicators changed as the tuner was testing all the various surround speakers using the mic. That's the only time they've ever said anything other than L and R. That makes it seem like that tuner only thinks I have the two front speakers attached. But that doesn't make sense since as I said I can hear output to all 5 speakers during auto setup. So it "knows" they're there.

I realize this is a long rambling post and I haven't really posed a question yet, but I'm not even sure what to ask. I guess I just want some advice on how to trouble-shoot. Can anyone throw me a bone here?

Thanks,

-cwineman

 

[bikdav]

I'm Only Guessing

That is a tough one. I'm only guessing.My guess is that the cable box is only capable of 5.1, but you receiver is set to 6.1 or 7.1, but no speakers are connected. Your HTR-6150 is a 7.1 unit. Try going to the set up menu and make sure that you have the receiver set up according to the number of speakers that you have _ 2 spkrs, 4 spkrs, 5 spkrs, etc. For example, I have the HTR-5940 which is a 6.1 receiver. But, I'm only using a 5.1 set up _ 5 spkrs [no surround back speaker]. Again, this only a guess, but when I set up my system according to the number of speakers that I'm actually using, nothing "balked" at the set up.

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum, cwineman!

From your description, my guess is that you have your surround speakers connected to the "SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP" speaker terminals on the back of the receiver. If so, you want to connect them instead to the "SURROUND" speaker terminals. That would explain the error that you are getting - you need to use the "SURROUND" terminals for a 5.1 system.

If that is indeed the issue, rerun your auto setup and it should work for you.

 

[bikdav]

Thank you Adam. I forgot about that bi -amp capability and that just may be what the problem is.

 

[cwineman]

Thanks, guys.

You were correct, I did indeed have the back speakers plugged into the "SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP" terminals. I thought that made sense they were in the back and the terminal said the word "back". But then again, I have no idea what I'm doing.

So I switched those to the Surround L,R terminals and ran the setup again, and it worked. One mystery solved. Groovy.

I'm still not sure I'm hearing true surround sound. Everything sounds okay, but I'm just not sure things are sounding as good as they should.

Also, on the indicators on the tuner, I still only have the L and R indicators on. Seems wrong to me.

My cable box is a Motorola DCH6416. It is connected to the TV via HDMI, and to the tuner via RCA cables to the DVT/CBL terminals. Is that okay? Like, you don't need dedicated output from the cable box for each speaker, right?

I've switched through all the different modes using the button labeled "SUR. DECODE" on the remote and it switches between modes: Pro Logic, PLII Movie, PLII Music, PLII Game, Neo: 6 Cinema, Neo: 6 Music, & Neural Sur. Are the differences between these just a matter of preference? Or are you "supposed" to use one of these depending on what you're doing (movie vs music for example) and depending on what type of equipment you have.

So far so good. I look forward to your responses.

-cwineman

 

[bikdav]

It's Now time to Experiment.

My guess is that the cable box and the tuner may not be designed to put out a "true" digital surround sound. That may explain why you may not be getting the sound that you think you should. Those listening modes that you mentioned turn normal 2 channel stereo sound into imitation surround sound. None of those modes are true surround _ by the real definition. But, those imitation surround sound modes can be awesomely impressive nonetheless. I especially like the DPLII Movie mode for just about everything originally done in 2 channel. Try them all and see which one sounds best to you.

 

[Adam]

My cable box is a Motorola DCH6416. It is connected to the TV via HDMI, and to the tuner via RCA cables to the DVT/CBL terminals. Is that okay?

Hi, again. That's okay, but it is the reason why you are only getting the left/right indicators. You are using a two-channel analog audio connection between the cable box and the receiver, and therefore can not get any better than stereo unless you use the simulated surround sound modes on the Yamaha.

The best way would be to connect the cable box to the Yamaha using HDMI, then connect the receiver HDMI output to the TV. That type of connection will allow you to get full digital surround sound from the cable box. If you prefer to connect the cable box to the TV using HDMI like you have, then you could connect a digital audio output on the cable box (assuming it has one, but a lot of them do) to one of the digital audio inputs on the Yamaha.

 

[cwineman]

Thanks again, guys.

That makes perfect sense for what I'm experiencing. I'm not getting "true" surround sound, but that fake imitation stuff. It does sound pretty good as you say, bikdav, but I had the feeling that it should sound better.

On another forum someone suggested that using an optical cable would allow me to experience true surround. Does using optical instead of HDMI cable sound reasonable? Or will I be missing out on something?

The main reason is that the video quality on the TV looks better when I go straight from the cable box to the TV than it does when I go through the receiver. I have no idea why. There maybe a setting that I can adjust that fixes that problem.

 

[Adam]

An optical cable will work perfectly! You might need to set it up on your cable box to output the audio through that cable as opposed to the HDMI output.

When I mentioned using a digital audio output on the cable box, optical is one of the options (a digital coax is the other, and I don't know which one you have on that cable box).

 

[avnetguy]

When I mentioned using a digital audio output on the cable box, optical is one of the options (a digital coax is the other, and I don't know which one you have on that cable box).

Looks like that cable box has both, optical and coax.

Steve

 

[cwineman]

An optical cable will work perfectly! You might need to set it up on your cable box to output the audio through that cable as opposed to the HDMI output.

When I mentioned using a digital audio output on the cable box, optical is one of the options (a digital coax is the other, and I don't know which one you have on that cable box).

It's been a few days, but I'm pleased to report that the optical cable worked. And every thing sounds great. Your assistance is appreciated.

Now, onto some additional questions:

1) I used the auto-setup to configure everything. Do these auto-setups generally work pretty well, or would you recommend manually adjusting things? Like I said, things sound pretty good to me, but maybe I'm missing out on something cool just because I don't know any better.

2a) I HATE when I'm watching something and the commercials are 7 times louder than whatever I've been watching. This receiver has settings for "DYNAMIC RANGE". It has max, standard, and min options. To avoid the louder-than-hell commercial situation, I should use the "min" dynamic range option, correct? Also, if I choose that, what will I be missing out on? As I understand it, dynamic range exists so that, say, movies can produce loud, shocking sounds like gunshots and explosions that are significantly louder than general volume of the movie. If that's all I'd be missing out on, fine.

2b) I also hate (lower-case no bold, so this is a more mild hatred, mind you) when I'm watching something and I can't understand what the characters are saying because they are speaking quietly or whispering. I often can't turn up the volume because so many other things in the movie are loud action noises and cranking up the volume would piss off the neighbors. Minimizing the dynamic range should improve this problem too, right? Is there something else I can/should be trying?

3) You mention "digital coax" in your post and as avnetguy correctly points out, this receiver supports both coax and optical inputs. What is meant by digital coax? What kind of cable do you use? Are the typical red/white RCA cables digital coax or is this a "special" wire? Is there a reason why either optical or digital coax cables is preferable?

Once again, I've asked pile of questions. I'll stop typing now and let you guys lay some knowledge down.

-cwineman

 

[avnetguy]

3) You mention "digital coax" in your post and as avnetguy correctly points out, this receiver supports both coax and optical inputs. What is meant by digital coax? What kind of cable do you use? Are the typical red/white RCA cables digital coax or is this a "special" wire? Is there a reason why either optical or digital coax cables is preferable?

If the optical is working for you don't worry about the coax, same thing different connection.

Steve

 

[cwineman]

If the optical is working for you don't worry about the coax, same thing different connection.

Steve

OK, thanks. It's good to know that the sound quality might be that same, but I'd still like to know what a "digital coax" means. Like, is it likely that I have one of those on hand, or do I have to order it?

 

[Adam]

1) I used the auto-setup to configure everything. Do these auto-setups generally work pretty well, or would you recommend manually adjusting things? Like I said, things sound pretty good to me, but maybe I'm missing out on something cool just because I don't know any better.

In my experience, the auto set up has worked very well with the exception that it sets my bookshelf speakers to "large" (and this is a common comment that I've seen). I manually set those to small, but other than that, I leave it alone. I used to check the speaker levels with a sound pressure level (SPL) meter, but my Pioneers that use MCACC have nailed the speaker levels every time.

2a) I HATE when I'm watching something and the commercials are 7 times louder than whatever I've been watching. This receiver has settings for "DYNAMIC RANGE". It has max, standard, and min options. To avoid the louder-than-hell commercial situation, I should use the "min" dynamic range option, correct? Also, if I choose that, what will I be missing out on? As I understand it, dynamic range exists so that, say, movies can produce loud, shocking sounds like gunshots and explosions that are significantly louder than general volume of the movie. If that's all I'd be missing out on, fine.

My recommendation is to give that a try and see if it works - IIRC, it won't...but I've been wrong before.

2b) I also hate (lower-case no bold, so this is a more mild hatred, mind you) when I'm watching something and I can't understand what the characters are saying because they are speaking quietly or whispering. I often can't turn up the volume because so many other things in the movie are loud action noises and cranking up the volume would piss off the neighbors. Minimizing the dynamic range should improve this problem too, right? Is there something else I can/should be trying?

Try the dynamic range. I think that'll work wonders for what you are describing.

3) You mention "digital coax" in your post and as avnetguy correctly points out, this receiver supports both coax and optical inputs. What is meant by digital coax? What kind of cable do you use? Are the typical red/white RCA cables digital coax or is this a "special" wire? Is there a reason why either optical or digital coax cables is preferable?

You guessed right - you can use any RCA cable for that. The "digital" part of the name just refers to the digital information that is going over the cable, and the "coax" just refers to the coaxial construction of the cable. I'm guessing that the name "digital coax" was used to differentiate it from the digital optical cable. Years ago when I was facing your same set of questions, I did some research. The RCA cables used to be more robust than the optical cables, and the optical connectors used to be kind of loose. Nowadays, I think it's a wash regarding cable integrity and connectors. There were also discussions about which cable would work better over a long distance, but nothing that I read made me think either one had concrete evidence to support it being better.

 

[avnetguy]

Probably the only benefit for optical vs coax is the optical provides electrical isolation. Not sure about distance differences as I've never needed a cable longer than 6ft.

Steve