LCD vs Plasma issues

[Mike Up]

First Post here. Just some quick history on me. I've been in the HT hobby for over 15 years. I have set up various home theater systems for friends and family. I have a Denon AVR-3803, A Pansonic Blu-Ray Player with 7.1 analog outputs, A Denon Universal DVD-A/SACD player, a Pioneer Universal DVD-A/SACD, HK CD-20 CD recorder, Pioneer HDD DVD recorder, Magnavox DVD recorder, JVC Dual Cassette Recorder, Sony Turntable with MM cartridge, Comcast HD DVR, Infinity Floor standing speakers, Infinity Center channel Speaker along with Infinity Rear and Surround back speakers. Along with my previous JVC 36" TV and new LG 50PV450 Plasma TV.

Waited before going to HD because I just wasn't satisfied with earlier LCD TVs and their terrible digital processing that left digital artifacts all over the screen. My son's Dynex 32" LCD is a very VERY good example of this.

We have 2 cheap LCD TVs, one Sanyo 19" in our camper and the son has a Dynex 32" in his bedroom.

I've kept my 36" JVC higer end Tube TV because I've found quite a bit of problems with our smaller, older, cheaper LCD TVs.

Now that Plasmas have gotten cheaper and are 1080P, I finally pulled the plug. I bought a LG 50PV450. I just love the picture and pretty much everything about it. It has issues to and I may be making more of them than necessary since I tend to nit pick. Now if I do take it back, I don't want to be sorry in getting an LED TV that has issues I find more bothersome. So I just want to make a generalized statement of my findings and maybe you guys can add some comments if I'm correct in my thinking.

My previous JVC 36" Tube TV.

Positives:
Awesome black levels
Great color
Great viewing angle
Great brightness
Nice White levels

Negatives:
Round tube
"Normal" analog noise associated to scanning
Standard Definition
Smaller
Poor Geometery
Reflective Glass Screen



Our LCDs

Positives:

Great White levels

Good Color

No reflections

Great Geometry

Great Brightness

Negatives:

Polarization above or below 19" TV (Looks like old Notebook computer screen where it resembles a picture negative where darks become whites and whites become darks), this is my most hated reason for LCDs.

Off Center viewing where screen dims greatly off to the sides

Terrible black levels where black areas glow with a sheen

Whites looks saturated on some scenes losing detail

Color not as good as a Tube TV


New LG 50" plasma

Positives:

Great looking colors, far exceeds the tube TV

Great looking white levels

Great looking black levels

Great off center view, no dimming

Best picture I've seen to date, just awesome picture clarity and detail


Negatives:

Screen is reflective, just as bad as tube TV

A varying of brightness levels in brighter scenes. You can see brightness levels going up and down, and then stabilizing. It happenes frequently on some scenes. So flickering also can be seen with the varying brightness on select scenes. Most scenes and shows, the varying brightness can't be seen.




So here's my issues, I just love the Plasma TV. It's got the best picture I've seen but the varying brightness issue bothers me since I tend to find issues with things. However, I just love the picture and have not been impressed with LED LCD or LCD picture quality like I have with this Plasma. However the brightness issue is bothersome.

Now I can return it and get a newer LED LCD but reviews I've read state most have problems of their own with none uniform brightness and bright spots. This would drive me even more crazy. So I'd likely just get a plain LCD but the off angle viewing and poor black levels would bother me also. Hopefully the newer LCDs wouldn't have that polarization issues I have with my 19" LCD or the poor video processing that leaves digital artifacts everywhere. The Plasma has no digital noise just as my analog JVC Tube TV.

I guess I'm just trying to justify keeping the plasma with the varying brightness issue, thinking LCD would have more bothersome issues.

BTW, I know the varying brightness is an issue with plasma tvs in general, due to their ABL circuit, to keep them from overdriving on a complete white or complete bright picture. Most reviewers don't see it as an issue and only a few of us nit pickers do. I've seen that Panasonic has a fix for a brightness issue they have, but it's not the ABL circuit, but a predetermined age where they changed the voltage to give it a longer life, but diminish the black levels and overall contrast. The fix is to disable this voltage change and just let the TV age normally.

So what's your thoughts. Keep the Plasma and deal with the Automatic Brightness Level issue or go with a LCD TV??

Thanks!

 

[highfigh]

So here's my issues, I just love the Plasma TV. It's got the best picture I've seen but the varying brightness issue bothers me since I tend to find issues with things. However, I just love the picture and have not been impressed with LED LCD or LCD picture quality like I have with this Plasma. However the brightness issue is bothersome.

Now I can return it and get a newer LED LCD but reviews I've read state most have problems of their own with none uniform brightness and bright spots. This would drive me even more crazy. So I'd likely just get a plain LCD but the off angle viewing and poor black levels would bother me also. Hopefully the newer LCDs wouldn't have that polarization issues I have with my 19" LCD or the poor video processing that leaves digital artifacts everywhere. The Plasma has no digital noise just as my analog JVC Tube TV.

I guess I'm just trying to justify keeping the plasma with the varying brightness issue, thinking LCD would have more bothersome issues.

BTW, I know the varying brightness is an issue with plasma tvs in general, due to their ABL circuit, to keep them from overdriving on a complete white or complete bright picture. Most reviewers don't see it as an issue and only a few of us nit pickers do. I've seen that Panasonic has a fix for a brightness issue they have, but it's not the ABL circuit, but a predetermined age where they changed the voltage to give it a longer life, but diminish the black levels and overall contrast. The fix is to disable this voltage change and just let the TV age normally.

So what's your thoughts. Keep the Plasma and deal with the Automatic Brightness Level issue or go with a LCD TV??

Thanks!

If the plasma brightness changes, it's probably the broadcast, not the TV. If it's the TV, take it back and have it replaced or serviced after sending a static image and watching for it to change.

Some plasma screens are less reflective- you could have looked at the Panasonic models for this. If you have no choice but to position the TV at an angle that makes ceiling light reflections a problem, you may need to angle it downward or make sure the lights are dimmed.

The Panasonic automatic brightness setting "fix" was a bad mistake, IMO. However, since it doesn't harm the display, it's really just an annoyance. I think it was an over-reaction to the comments about plasma TVs "half-brightness", which usually occurred after about 50,000 hours of use. First of all, if anyone actually watched TV for 50K hours in their lifetime, they have done nothing else that was useful. EVery time I have been at Best Buy and said I was looking at Plasma TVs, they throw the half brightness at me and then I explain how long it takes in real terms, along with how to fix it (turn the brightness up a bit).

50K hours- if someone watched TV for 3 hours every day, it would take over 45 years to reach this number.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Your two issues seem to be pretty minimal and may not be corrected by a LCD.

Many LCD TVs have a reflective screen, and reflections have been a part of TV viewing since TVs were invented. Some plasmas have a anti-reflective coating added to the TV to help minimize reflections. This gives you the same better than LCD performance, without the same amount of glare.

The TV fluxuating in brightness I can't comment on. This is NOT a plasma issue. I would be happy to throw LG under the bus on this because I continually see issues with the products. I can say my 64" Samsung does NOT have that issue, and my brothers 65" Panasonic doesn't have that issue.

You do want to check to see if there are any dynamic contrast settings on the display and turn them off as this will often cause fluxations in brightness. As will 'automatic room brightness adjust' modes, which makes the TV brighter/dimmer depending on the brightness of the room, then it ends up responding to its own brightness instead.

Sounds kind of silly that it would cause itself issues, but LG would call that 'user error' I'm pretty sure. Just go ahead and double check that some 'default' settings aren't causing you some greivances.

LCD TVs, more often, do have dynamic contrast controls which could add to the change in brightness effect that you aren't really happy with.

I'm not sure I will ever recommend LG, but switching from plasma to LCD isn't going to really fix things, unless you also go to a GOOD LCD. But, you will fix things by going to a GOOD plasma I would expect.

 

[Mike Up]

Thanks, I do have the dynamic Contrast Off. I have read of others complaining about this issue mainly on Panasonics and Samsungs. I've also seen a couple of complaints about it on the LGs. Many say it's a byproduct of the ABL circuit and unavoidable with Plasma TVs.

I mentioned the Panasonic brightness fix because others have mistakenly thought this was a fix for the issue I'm seeing, but on the Panasonic. Others have complained that after the fix, the issue was still there, confirming that the fix wasn't for the situation we are experiencing, but length of life issues.

In most scenes it's not there, but as numerous others have pointed out, I see it the most on soccer games and golf.

No offense, but I strongly dislike Samsung. I always have found issues or defects in their equipment when I've been setting up home theater systems. That's why they were the only brand crossed off of my list. While their Plasmas do seem to excel in performance, I've seen just to many defects in their DLPs, LCDs, VCRs as well as reading professional reviews siting defects in their Blu-Ray and DVD players. That's why they were the only brand I didn't consider.

However it looks like there's a lot of happy Samsung Plasma owners and I'm glad Samsung has found another product they excel in manfactureing, beside their cell phones I really like.

Thanks for post.

 

[BMXTRIX]

If you are looking to get a high quality LCD, then the brand to go to that is NOT Samsung would pretty much have to be Sony. Theirs is the only one I've really heard of with the quality to meet or beat the Samsung series.

I've heard good things about the Elite series from Sharp. I'm not sold on it at this point. There's a lot of love for Pioneer Elite, but I'm hard pressed to be convinced yet that the Elite badge isn't sitting on the wrong display. Just my own personal bias towards the very high quality the Pioneer used to deliver.

As for Samsung quality - I'm not sure how they stack up in more recent years. I certainly don't like their BD players and much of their other products, but their TVs tend to look really nice and tend to review very well.

Panasonic is generally considered the front runner in overall plasma quality with their VT series.

I will have to watch a couple hours of golf at some point to see if I see the same issue on my 64" 7000 series Samsung, then maybe head to my brothers to see if it comes up on his 65" VT series Panasonic. I certainly have not noticed this issue at all, and perhaps you can describe with a bit more detail what type of brightness fluxuations you are seeing. I can think of all sorts of reasons for it within the electronics from it being a true power supply issue to it being an issue with the video processing in the unit itself.

It is worth saying that most manufacturers are all over the place on their electronics quality. Some make top excellent projectors (Sanyo) but the rest of their electronics tend to be of lower than average quality. Samsungs Blu-ray players tend to be below average to abysmal, but their TVs, especially in recent years, have been pretty much class leading for both plasma and LCD. I've installed perhaps a dozen and haven't had one issue... that's (of course) not saying much. Panasonic I think just builds some of the most steady consumer electronics available and typically does a good job of responding to consumer and reviewer complaints from year to year to improve their product.

It is worth trying something else for sure if you aren't happy with the LG. I would definitely keep an open mind at this point because you know you aren't fully satisfied with what you have.

You may have to Pony up for an Elite LCD to get the best that LCD offers, but the better Sonys are worth a look as well if you are avoiding Samsung.