Confusion

[mlail]

All,

I am looking at replacing our 65" DLP with a flat screen. Now my confusion come into play when I read about the problems associated with various types of screens. For example, the Plasma has artifact issues when viewing motion. The LCD using back lighting has issues with light around the borders. I would love (maybe) a good OLED but I suspect these are too expensive at 60".

Here is what I am looking at, 55-60". We watch more movies than sports. The viewing distance is around 10'. Our budget is not set but this is a joint x-mas gift. We have not moved to Blue ray but after I finish my classes I will look into Blue ray 3D (once it matures).

I read that going with LCD and a faster refresh rate causes other issues.

What I dislike about my DLP is that the black borders are Grey at best. Movies that are shot at night are almost impossible to see, even with a new lamp and the brightness turned up. I also dislike action movies because of the blurring effect caused by motion.

One other note, my receiver has HDMI but only at 1.0.

Maybe a OLED is doable but with all of the problems with back lighting, artifacts, blurring during fast action... I'd hate to spend a bundle only to be disappointed.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Marshall

 

[zhimbo]

For example, the Plasma has artifact issues when viewing motion.

Nope. That's LCD TVs that often have motion artifacts. Plasmas are fine with motion.

There are no commercially available OLED TVs (or if there are, they're prohibitively expensive). There are LCD TVs with LED backlighting, which perhaps you're thinking of; these are usually called "LED TVs", although that's really misleading.

 

[mlail]

OK, I got this directly from hometheater.coms web site.

LCD TVs with 120 or 240Hz refresh rate do sharpen motion, which is great for sports, but they also introduce a visible artifact called the "soap-opera effect" that makes images look like they were shot on video, though this affects movies much more than sports shot on video to begin with. Plasma TVs do not suffer from motion blur like LCDs do, so you might consider a plasma instead.

OK, I believe that LCD even though it may have some issues is still a better long term buy. As long as it has LED backlighting and local or precision dimming.

2D is more important than 3D to us at this stage. If we want to see 3D we can go to the movie theater.

That stated, does anyone have any recommendations on a 55 -60" LED TV?


Thanks

 

[Alex2507]

Plasma TVs do not suffer from motion blur like LCDs do, so you might consider a plasma instead.

I believe that LCD even though it may have some issues is still a better long term buy.

That has me a little confused but that's okay.

Here's a thread where one of our resident smart guys also bought an LCD:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/televisions-displays/75772-shoot-me-please.html
I don't know why he didn't get a plasma but he didn't.

The thread is pretty informative so give it a read and then you'll have a better understanding and probably more questions.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Alex - I got the Samsung PN64D7000 - It's a plasma, not an LCD.

In this situation, with the type of viewing, and going from a DLP setup, I would think that plasma is ideal.

I would be interested to know what the original poster believes that LED backlit LCD is the way to go?

For about $2,500 you can get the 64" Samsung D8000 series plasma...
Amazon.com: Samsung 1080p 3D Plasma HDTV: Electronics

A few hundred less for the 7000 series which I purchased.

I do like Samsung LED lit LCD displays a lot.

It's about $1,300 MORE than the D8000 series plasma for the 65" D8000 series LCD...
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN65D8000-65-Inch-1080p-Silver/dp/B004Y45RXI/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1321593372&sr=1-3

That's a huge jump in price for what actually amounts to a reduction in quality.

Also worth saying: Get a Blu-ray player!

3D hardly matters, but you can pick up a BD player for under $100! Why don't you already own one if you want great quality?

The only reason not to get a plasma is if you do a ton of gaming on it and may possible get burn-in, which you didn't indicate.

Or, if you have a ton of windows in the room and need a lot of additional brightness. Since you've been using a DLP rear projection setup, I fully believe that you do not have serious lighting issues in that room.

There is also the Sharp LED LCD displays, but they simply don't look as good as the Samsung displays.

Panasonic also makes some great plasma displays that are 65".

They run from about $2,000 to $3,000.

Amazon.com: panasonic 65 plasma: Electronics

 

[Alex2507]

Alex - I got the Samsung PN64D7000 - It's a plasma, not an LCD.

Oh ... good choice then.

I looked that TV up too.

The 80's were brutal.

So what made you go with that Sammy over one of the Pannys?

 

[BMXTRIX]

So what made you go with that Sammy over one of the Pannys?

The Panasonic VT30 is really the Panasonic that stands out as one of the best displays on the market, but runs about $1,000 more than the D7000 series plasma from Samsung. That's about a 50% price premium between a really really good display and a really good display.

Most of the word is that the D8000 and the D7000 series plasmas are basically identical with a few refinements which have almost no image quality impact. So, the D7000 vs. the VT30... I decided to save $1,000 and am very happy with what I have and don't regret for a second that I didn't get the Panasonic.

Gotta say, if I have any hardware issues with this display, it will likely be the last Samsung product I ever purchase.

 

[Adam]

BMXTRIX, how would you place the Panasonic G series against the Samsungs? That's the line that's more in my price comfort zone.

Thanks!

 

[avnetguy]

BMXTRIX, how would you place the Panasonic G series against the Samsungs? That's the line that's more in my price comfort zone.

Thanks!

Good question, was discussing this with a friend last night on how the GT compares to the VT series. The GT series are a fair bit less in price so I wonder where they cut the cost corners.

Steve

 

[jonnythan]

Sounds to me like the OP would be a lot happier with a plasma than an LCD. There's nothing that makes LCD a "better buy" long-term.

 

[BMXTRIX]

BMXTRIX, how would you place the Panasonic G series against the Samsungs? That's the line that's more in my price comfort zone.

Thanks!

I really didn't catch the GT30 series in my meanderings...

Looks like the difference between the VT and GT series is minimal to most people...

VT30 adds: (from Google search, not sure how accurate this is!)

--Cinematic 24P Playback (96Hz)
--3D Cinematic 24P Playback (96Hz)
--ISFccc
--Infinite Black Pro 2
--Dual Speaker +Woofer
--CONEQ
--RS-232 (D-Sub 9pin)
--Includes 1 Pr. of Glasses
--Wider Pro Setting adjustments available

I liked that my Samsung, for when I got it, came with two pairs of glasses and the BD player. It also has RS-232 on it which is a big plus for my particular setup.

Overall, I would think that most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a properly setup Samsung and Panasonic. I think that Panasonic has a longer track record of higher reliability than Samsung, and generally Panasonic electronics just work better. Still, Samsung displays have been really solid for a few years now and their LCDs are pretty close to the top of the line while Panasonic has nothing worth mentioning at this time in the world of LCD.

CNET has some information on the GT30 series...
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p50gt30/4505-6482_7-34468656.html?tag=mncol;rvwBody#reviewPage1

I have a certain amount of trust for CNET as they tend not to pull punches on what they like/dislike on displays. From this read, it seems like the Samsung is just a bit better even if they don't simply say that. The color accuracy of the Samsung is supposed to be just spectacular. Panasonic may be a bit better on black levels. Definitely on the VT30 series.

I try not to ever think about what I may be missing. I'm really happy with my display even after the devestating marble attack on my Pioneer.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I wanted to edit this in...

Samsung PN59D7000 Review - Watch CNET's Video Review

The review above is pretty much what tipped my hat to the D7000 Samsung.

I spent hours reading through the AVS Forum posts as well as a few others and the bottom line was that while the VT30 trumps all, the best bang for the buck is pretty solidly the D7000 and the D8000, while better than the D7000, is just barely better, and not worth the price difference.

The Smart TV feature really sucks IMO as I am an Amazon Instant user and it doesn't support it, and it is really slow.

 

[mlail]

Original poster here!

BMXTRIX - We do have a lot of windows in the living room where the TV is. One of the reason for the DLP was because it displayed a better picture when the evening sun streams in. Also we do not own a gaming console so that is not a problem.

I really liked your post comparing comon sense models. The thing that stands strong about plasmas is two fold (in my opinion). First they are cheaper than LED, second they come in larger sizes. Since we have a 65" DLP, it would take some getting use to a smaller screen.

So back to the brightness levels. We do not expect to stay in this house much longer. In fact we would already be gone but the housing market busted, another story.

My wife found a sale at BJ's and in my expierence these displays are lower end in quality. For example the Sharp AQUOS 60" 120 Hz LCD. It can be had for $900.

We went to a local audio/video store and my socks were blown off when I noticed one of their displays. The LED screen displayed what looked like pitch blacks and the motion was clear. It was just a little too small for our entertainment unit.

I will research the Smsung D8000 series and the 7000. You also recommended looking at the Panasonic VT30 displays even though you didn't get one yourself.

As you can see I am teetering back and forth but posts like yours really helps so thanks and if anyone else wants to post their suggestions, please do!!

 

[mlail]

I wanted to edit this in...

Samsung PN59D7000 Review - Watch CNET's Video Review

The review above is pretty much what tipped my hat to the D7000 Samsung.

I spent hours reading through the AVS Forum posts as well as a few others and the bottom line was that while the VT30 trumps all, the best bang for the buck is pretty solidly the D7000 and the D8000, while better than the D7000, is just barely better, and not worth the price difference.

The Smart TV feature really sucks IMO as I am an Amazon Instant user and it doesn't support it, and it is really slow.

I watched the review and man that guy can talk fast.

The prices are approx $2444 for the D8000, $2218 for the D7000, and $2999 for the VT30. The VT30 is very interesting but only 1 pair of 3D glasses at this cost! Also I need to find out if there is a 3.5 audio out (Need for wireless headset). The VT30 also has an app for the Ipad to act as a remote. I didn't see if that was free or not.

Teh Samsung UN65D8000 was much more at $3889 but at least it comes with 2 3D glasses. However it only is rated at 240Hz not the 600 the 7000 and 8000 has standard.

I need to find somewhere to audition these screens.

Thanks

 

[Alex2507]

I need to find somewhere to audition these screens.

Here's the part where I get to use my line about auditioning uncalibrated screens being like being a judge in a beauty pageant where the contestants have been in a food fight. The reviews that do all sorts of tests are a better measure of picture quality than looking at a bunch of uncalibrated TV's.

 

[Adam]

The reviews that do all sorts of tests are a better measure of picture quality than looking at a bunch of uncalibrated TV's.

Agreed, depending on where you are able to view them. When I went to look at screens at Best Buy, the plasmas looked horrible - and I mean horrible. I stuck to my guns and trusted the folks on here and other sites, and I'm glad that I did. My Panasonic plasma has a great picture, and it's far, far better than it looked at the store.

What you certainly can compare at a store are the other aspects of the TV, such as the bezel and screen coating. Some of the LCDs seemed to have a better picture at Best Buy, but I could tell that the shiny screens were going to cause a big problem in my room with all my windows. So, I knew that whichever technology I picked, I wanted some level of anti-reflective coating. I could tell that the Panasonic that I was interested in had an effective coating, and that sort of sealed the deal for me.

 

[mlail]

You both are correct. Reviewing the displays set to presentation mode is not realistic but I can then see the screens reflectiveness, bezel size and color, speaker placement and connector placements, not to mention what the remote looks like, and stability of the stands.

These are all good points, thanks!

Adam - Which display did you go with?

 

[Adam]

Adam - Which display did you go with?

I bought mine in the summer of 2009 and went with the Panasonic 50" G10. Overall, I'm very happy with it. The screen coating is great for reducing glare, and the off-axis picture (where I typically sit) is fantastic. I was a little nervous about the shiny bezel being distracting, but it isn't to me. The issue with Panny's where the blacks get lighter with usage annoys me a bit (could be fixed in firmware, but Panasonic isn't fixing it), but I can only tell if it's night time and my lights are off.

 

[avnetguy]

Here's the part where I get to use my line about auditioning uncalibrated screens being like being a judge in a beauty pageant where the contestants have been in a food fight. The reviews that do all sorts of tests are a better measure of picture quality than looking at a bunch of uncalibrated TV's.

Yes, you have to be careful when you do in store comparisons but they can be done. I spent numerous hours doing in store comparisons before my last purchase, selecting stores that had controlled lighting (like my viewing area at home) and had good source material/feeds or allowed me to direct source (blu-ray) to each TV. Of course I reset each TV to factory defaults before beginning and controlled the display from that point forward.

In the end I found that what looked like huge differences in the marketing or spec sheets were rather meaningless in real world viewing. On the other side of the coin, there are differences but not as easily detected as one might think between close model lines though the substandard displays fail to impress quickly.

Now whether or not these differences are worth more money, sometimes significantly more money, is completely up to the individual viewing but there are points of diminishing returns as you move up the model lines.

Steve

 

[Alex2507]

I spent numerous hours doing in store comparisons before my last purchase

What did you end up with and when? I looked at some TV's too but always came back to info found on line to see what reviewers and testers had to say. I find that having others make my mind up for me works good. Independent thinking burns.