Component 4x2 matrix switch anomaly

[adk highlander]

Help BMXTRIX, Highfigh and InTheIndustry

I recently installed a CE-labs SW204HD matrix switch. I have my sat boxes, and blue-ray player connected via component to the switch and HDMI to the theater (av7005). I thought all was well and then my wife tells me that when I switch on the shared sources in the theater that the video drops out a few times in the bedroom. I have checked and only the shared sources cause the drop. The DVDR that is also connected to the switch but not the theater does not drop out when the shared sources are used in the theater.

What is funny is the $20 monoprice switch never had this issue.

I had my local B&M call CE-labs and they said they never heard of this before. The only helpful info that I got was that the green (y) is the sync cable.

I've checked all the connections and all the cables are fairly new and none are kinked or anything that should have caused damage.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before? Any ideas would be great. The CE-labs unit was not cheap. I'm getting ready to get the connection the garage going which will use the second output and now I'm concerned.

Thanks.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm a bit confused on your setup.

Sat Box -> Matrix Switch -> Theater
Sat Box -> Matrix Switch -> (future garage?) (bedroom?)

How does the bedroom tie into this currently so that you can see something which causes a drop?

I've always used Extron matrix switchers (RGBHV/RGBS) with audio to be extremely reliable with very high compatibility and functionality.

Extron Crosspoint Series Switcher 12X4 | eBay

I just don't really understand how things are connected which would cause any issues at all.

 

[adk highlander]

Thanks for responding I will try and be more clear.

Shared sources:
DirectTV HD DVR
DirectTV HD Box
Oppo BDP-83

Component Matrix (for bedroom & garage):
CE-labs 204 4x2

Theater Preamp:
AV7005

All shared sources are connected to the matrix via component & Coax Digital Audio and to the AV7005 via HDMI

All components are controlled by RS232 via URC MSC-400 except the oppo.

Any power cycle in theater using shared component causes video to drop on matrix switch. So for example if I power up the theater to watch the sat box and my wife is watching the dvr the video will drop out in her room for a few seconds. If I power cycle the C-200 popcorn hour to watch a movie there is no drop in the matrix switch so it is definitely only the sources that are connected to both the switch and the av7005.

I have rechecked all of my programming and with the way I track source use with variables there should not be any commands being sent that would cause this.

Thanks again.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Check with the Oppo to see if this is also occurring.

My guess, since I'm not running things this way, is that when HDMI goes offline you are getting a refresh within the cable box of some sort which is causing the dropout. If the Oppo does not exhibit the same behavior then it is limited to the cable box, and you may want to simply run with component video for cable instead of HDMI. I find this to be very satisfactory in my setup to ensure reliability.

It's pricey, but Monoprice does sell a 4x4 HDMI matrix switch, which I have EXTREMELY limited testing of. I need to hook it up with several of my sources to check compatibility across many sources/destinations. But, it's not big enough for my setup, so it may never be used. (5+ HDMI sources & 6 destinations)

I wouldn't think your remote has any effect on things, but definitely manually check things.

Also, be sure the HDMI CEC is turned off on all cable boxes/receiver if you can.

You may want to see the effect of manually pulling/reconnecting the HDMI cable from your cable box to the receiver to see if that has some effect.

Many devices are no longer supporting simultaneous HDMI/component video output from their products so you get one or the other, but not both.

I'm not being very helpful on this one unfortunately. I'm pretty much sold that my next setup will include a 8x8 HDMI matrix switch at the very least and almost all of my A/V will be piped through it.

 

[adk highlander]

Check with the Oppo to see if this is also occurring.

Happens with the Oppo as well. I've tested with all permutations.

My guess, since I'm not running things this way, is that when HDMI goes offline you are getting a refresh within the cable box of some sort which is causing the dropout. If the Oppo does not exhibit the same behavior then it is limited to the cable box, and you may want to simply run with component video for cable instead of HDMI. I find this to be very satisfactory in my setup to ensure reliability.

I would then have to split the component connection as there is only one ouput on the box. I don't really want to put a switcher in line to the theater.

It's pricey, but Monoprice does sell a 4x4 HDMI matrix switch, which I have EXTREMELY limited testing of. I need to hook it up with several of my sources to check compatibility across many sources/destinations. But, it's not big enough for my setup, so it may never be used. (5+ HDMI sources & 6 destinations)

From my understanding all the these HDMI matrix switches work with the lowest common denominator for audio. So it will downmix to stereo due to the other zones not supporting 5.1.

I wouldn't think your remote has any effect on things, but definitely manually check things.

Me neither but I wanted to give you all the information.

Also, be sure the HDMI CEC is turned off on all cable boxes/receiver if you can.

You may want to see the effect of manually pulling/reconnecting the HDMI cable from your cable box to the receiver to see if that has some effect.

Very good suggestions! I will check those tonight. I know it is off on the prepro but I will check the boxes. Excellent idea about pulling the cable.

Many devices are no longer supporting simultaneous HDMI/component video output from their products so you get one or the other, but not both.

I'm not being very helpful on this one unfortunately. I'm pretty much sold that my next setup will include a 8x8 HDMI matrix switch at the very least and almost all of my A/V will be piped through it.

I am certain that all these sources support simultaneous output. I'm staying in the analog world with these other zones because I already have the baluns and I have only a single cat5e wire to each area. I know the HD baseT stuff is coming out put it is very pricey right now.

What gets me most is the monoprice 4x1 component switch did not do this so I was very surprised.

You have me very interested in the Extron products. I was hoping to upgrade to a 8x4 or 4x4 component switch (if I could find one cheap enough) so I could move my last sat box out of the great room down the equipment room and these may fit the bill.

I found this one after the first link you sent: eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
which looks like a similar model but is a bit better physical condition.

Possible dumb question: Would it be possible to use either the H or V input to use for coax digital audio?

Thanks again BMX. I will try your suggestions tonight when I get home.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Also try a direct connection from a source if you can and bypass the receiver. Not sure that'll help anything.

Since the monoprice switcher didn't do this, I would think it very well may be a switching issue.

The Extron switchers on eBay sometimes have analog audio, sometimes do not. They are all on Phoenix conectors, not RCA jacks, so you have to cut up a RCA wire to get them to work right, but they do work fine for unbalanced analog audio.

The H & V jacks do support digital audio.

I run mine using RGB for component and Sync for digital audio. I do not use the analog portion of my switcher as I have a separate analog audio switcher.

You can always give CE Labs a call I suppose to try to find out what may be causing the issue, but it'll take some trial and error to lock it down to the CE Labs matrix, and may require another matrix switcher in the mix to really dial things down.

 

[Hi Ho]

From my understanding all the these HDMI matrix switches work with the lowest common denominator for audio. So it will downmix to stereo due to the other zones not supporting 5.1.

I have a Monoprice 4x2 HDMI switch in my system and it does do this. I use it to feed a bedroom TV and if, for example, I watched TV in bed last night from my DVR and then turn on the main TV I only get a 2.0 signal unless I change the bedroom TV to a different source. Since I don't use both at the same time I simply programmed the remote to do this.

 

[adk highlander]

Thanks for the confirmation Hi Ho.

I'm watching a couple of extron units. I will pick one up over the next week or so. Now I will have to find some BNC adapters. Of all the cables and other crap I have stored away I have never had any BNC cables. I'll probably end up getting adapters but I will need at least 28 of them.

I did not get a chance to pull the back of my rack open to do more testing by pulling cables. Maybe tonight.

 

[adk highlander]

I just received my Extron Crosspoint 300 that I purchased on ebay. It is in mint condition. Now I just have to build my second rack to mount it but that will be after I get the rails for Christmas.

I am going to try the audio portion on this as well that way I will just need an amp for each zone using analog audio and use the build in volume control. I called Extron and they said it should work fine for my application. I've got all the codes in CCP so I can use my MSC-400 and RS232 to control it.

Thanks again for pointing this model out to me BMX!

 

[BMXTRIX]

I swear by Extron stuff, and their availability on eBay makes it a nice inexpensive option.

Heck, I get my Crestron stuff on eBay and it typically runs about 1/10th of MSRP... I can sell Crestron for less than what URC costs most people.

 

[adk highlander]

I have built my second rack and just made the change to the Extron switch. I must say I was very nervous as to how well the pre amp function would work.

The result is that it works amazingly well. I have the bedroom zone without any issues now. I removed the MZA 4.7 and am now using the Extron to control video/audio switching and volume then using a Niles SI-245 for amplification duties. What is cool as well is that I am using my MSC-400's relay blocks to power the 12v trigger for the amp. (I love my MSC-400) I cannot imaging not having one of these in my system.

I'll be working on the other zones over the weekend but they will go quicker as they will use digital audio and I will not have to make any more cables.

I picked up a Onkyo HD-RC230 (80 bucks) for the workout room.

Get this my wife requested I get external speakers and an amp because she could not turn the TV up loud enough when she was on her treadmill.

I'll get around to posting pics once I finish the wiring. I also picked up a structured wire box to install my phone/dsl line and incoming sat wires.