Trying to choose front towers

[3db]

Just auditioned some PSB and Focal's. Definitely do not like the Focal's and PSB are iffy. I like the imaging of them but I like how the Klipsch musically sound more. Focal I found way to bright but the deal break was they couldn't hold up on the low end, everything just broke apart. PSB I think the woofers were just too small as everything they had on display was 5.25".

I am liking what I hear about Ascend Audio but the idea of a bookshelf sized front speaker makes me think I am not going to get the bass performance out of them I want. I prefer to crossover pretty low around 60hz when using a sub.

Would ascend audio need more power? or is 90w RMS from my receiver enough?

So of what I auditioned it is between Klipsch and Paradigm. Still need to try some more polk and energy though.

Which PSBs did you audition?

 

[Bun-Bun]

I will take a closer look at the Philharmonic and Salk's

The reason I am trying to get towers that don't really need a sub is because I prefer to get the most I can from my fronts and then add a sub to only add to where the towers can not go. I still go to my parents house and listen to my dad's Technics towers with 12" woofers and love how they sound. I like what a sub can add for certain types of music but when listening to string instruments I find it sounds unnatural to be coming from a sub.

I will add a sub later and crossover around 60hz (or possibly down to 40hz). But I want the towers to sound very full all the way down to that and not have troubles keeping up. Klipsch so far has been the best in this regard but overall I still think I prefer the Paradigm. More testing will be needed.

Another simple reason is space and placement. It is easier to work with a 2.0 setup then anything larger.

Which PSBs did you audition?

Image T5 and Imagine T towers. the Imagine T were very balanced and natural with good imaging. But lacked low end. Probably would sound very good with a sub but if I am spending that kind of money I think I will try and find something more to what I want. I think I would like the Image T6 towers better but local store doesn't carry them to try. 5.25" woofers just don't seem to do it for me.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

If 2.0 is really what you want , then I'll join long line of people recommending Philharmonic audio speakers

 

[Bun-Bun]

Well looking more into the ARX line and the new A5 tower and the group buy offering with a free set of bookshelfs and a center at half price... (5.0 setup for $1k) I am seriously tempted.

I am also seriously considering getting a Emotiva Audio UPA-2. Though 125watts seems low to me but maybe im just crazy. Should I save up for the XPA-2?

 

[BufordTJustice]

Well looking more into the ARX line and the new A5 tower and the group buy offering with a free set of bookshelfs and a center at half price... (5.0 setup for $1k) I am seriously tempted.

I am also seriously considering getting a Emotiva Audio UPA-2. Though 125watts seems low to me but maybe im just crazy. Should I save up for the XPA-2?

The UPA-2 would be more than adequate with the A5 towers for all but the largest rooms. If you're running a full surround setup, I'm a big fan of the XPA-3 so you have balanced power output to the front 3 channels. Emotiva makes great kit.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

OP,
I'd be vary getting speakers from company based on response like this one:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/837682-post36.html

 

[gtpsuper24]

Yes I agree, that thread took a turn for the worst real quick, not blaming anyone though.

And about all the measurements, parts list, X-over schmatics ect, where are Aperion Audios, EMP, and Elemental Designs ???? No where listed on there site, I looked over EMP I can't find anything other than the basics, same with Aperion, and same with Arx, has anyone ever brought that up about Aperion Audio or EMP? Of course not.

SPECIFICATIONS: Arx A3 tower
Frequency Response: 47Hz-22kHz +/- 3dB
Low Frequency cutoff: 37Hz -6dB
Sensitivity (1w/1m): 89dB
System type:Convertible bass reflex tuned to 52Hz
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms
Minimum impedance: 7.5 ohms
Recommended Power: 20-250W
Dimensions: 1025 x 180 x 260mm
Dimensions: 40.35 x 7.1 x 10.25in
Net Weight: 18kg / 40lbs each

"That's no so much the measurements themselves i'm curious about but how come people line up to purchase speakers they don't even know how they perform" Quote from BoredsysAdmin

But its ok for Aperion to list the same specs on their site, so if I buy Aperion I'm taking a leap of faith cause I don't know how they perform.

"It is common for loudspeaker manufacturers to publish measurements that have been smoothed to 1/3 octave (meaning 3 graph points per each octave) and use a 10dB/division scale. This has a tendency to make the graphs look smoother than they are." Quote from Ascend

So in reality the graphs mean very little, because according to Ascend companies go out of their way to make them appear better than what they are, but how would I know that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The UPA-2 would be more than adequate with the A5 towers for all but the largest rooms. If you're running a full surround setup, I'm a big fan of the XPA-3 so you have balanced power output to the front 3 channels. Emotiva makes great kit.

Just to clarify, only the XPA1 is fully balanced. The rest of the Emotiva are not fully balanced. They are unbalanced amps on inside with balanced connectors on outside.

 

[jcl]

Yes I agree, that thread took a turn for the worst real quick, not blaming anyone though.

And about all the measurements, parts list, X-over schmatics ect, where are Aperion Audios, EMP, and Elemental Designs ???? No where listed on there site, I looked over EMP I can't find anything other than the basics, same with Aperion, and same with Arx, has anyone ever brought that up about Aperion Audio or EMP? Of course not.

SPECIFICATIONS: Arx A3 tower
Frequency Response: 47Hz-22kHz +/- 3dB
Low Frequency cutoff: 37Hz -6dB
Sensitivity (1w/1m): 89dB
System type:Convertible bass reflex tuned to 52Hz
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms
Minimum impedance: 7.5 ohms
Recommended Power: 20-250W
Dimensions: 1025 x 180 x 260mm
Dimensions: 40.35 x 7.1 x 10.25in
Net Weight: 18kg / 40lbs each

"That's no so much the measurements themselves i'm curious about but how come people line up to purchase speakers they don't even know how they perform" Quote from BoredsysAdmin

But its ok for Aperion to list the same specs on their site, so if I buy Aperion I'm taking a leap of faith cause I don't know how they perform.

"It is common for loudspeaker manufacturers to publish measurements that have been smoothed to 1/3 octave (meaning 3 graph points per each octave) and use a 10dB/division scale. This has a tendency to make the graphs look smoother than they are." Quote from Ascend

So in reality the graphs mean very little, because according to Ascend companies go out of their way to make them appear better than what they are, but how would I know that.

Aperion, EMP and Elemental Designs have submitted their products for review and measurement, both to Audioholics and other publications as well. They also have not been using the forums to advertise their products.

I did a google on ARX and Acculine and only came up with some blog posts and AffordableAudio reviews. Neither of which I would put much stock in. I would be very interested to see an Audioholics review of ARX speakers.

 

[gtpsuper24]

Thats fine that those speakers where tested by Audioholics. But someone can't demand to see measurements from one brand and not the other.

When you go buy a brand of speakers you should be able to see the graphs and other various measurements on that brands site, not having to search Audioholics for it.

Its one thing that the Arx A5 thread got locked because they were advertising in it.

Its another issue if it was locked because of lack of graphs or measurements. If thats the case Aperion, EMP, ect should get locked as well because the company hasn't posted graphs and measurements of its own.

"If X-over schematics, box dimension/cutlist, B.O.M isn't forthcoming" Maybe Aperion and EMP will post their stuff too, doubtful though

"IMO Reputation of any company which sells thousand dollar speaker cables should be taken with grain of salt..." boredsysadmin

Well IMO any site that gives so called professional reviews and then trys to sell the item in their store should also be taken with a grain of salt. You also can't be too harsh on them or they pull their advertising dollars from the site too, so gotta go easy.

 

[slipperybidness]

Check out the Goldenear Triton 2 or the Def Tech 8080ST. Very similar and similar price, and both have built in subs.

 

[Bun-Bun]

Can of worms opened I did...

Just to clarify, only the XPA1 is fully balanced. The rest of the Emotiva are not fully balanced. They are unbalanced amps on inside with balanced connectors on outside.

However a XPA-3 would be more balanced across the front 3 speakers then having a seperate amp on the mains and the AVR on the center.

I think that is the point that was trying to be made.

 

[adk highlander]

Bun-Bun, AcuDefTechGuy is referring to the internals of the amplifier and not how it will balance the sound across the front sound stage.

Balanced or dual differential amplifier is basically two separate amps circuits per channel. One circuit amplifies the positive half of the audio signal, while the other amplifies the negative half. These types of amps reject noise better and it also helps to eliminate hum and distortion.

 

[Bun-Bun]

I understand that is what AcuDefTechGuy was saying. But the original point made by BufordTjustice about more balanced power I beleive was to the balancing of the front stage.

 

[timoteo]

Oh yes i totally forgot about the GoldenEar TritonII towers!!

I heard these myself & fell in love with their musicality. Very transparent IMHO. Now i dont have any measurements or specs to back them up. Thats only because i havent looked them up. All i can say is they sounded great & seemed to me to be underpriced. They also have the buit in subs like was mentioned. These will give you very good full range sound. Id still get a sub with them but you wont have to.

GoldenEar TritonII
Philharmonics
& SALK

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Oh yes i totally forgot about the GoldenEar TritonII towers!!

I heard these myself & fell in love with their musicality. Very transparent IMHO. Now i dont have any measurements or specs to back them up. Thats only because i havent looked them up. All i can say is they sounded great & seemed to me to be underpriced. They also have the buit in subs like was mentioned. These will give you very good full range sound. Id still get a sub with them but you wont have to.

GoldenEar TritonII
Philharmonics
& SALK

GoldenEar & DefTech are both designed by Sandy Gross - basically the same in both sound & frequency response.

I do miss my DefTech BP7000. I think these DefTech & GoldenEar speakers are very fun speakers, but they won't even measure as accurately as the cheap Infinity P362.

I think they sound pretty exciting & lively, though. Pretty clear overall too, but they may lack some details in the sound, which to most people is no big deal.

Just don't believe their specified FR, like 11Hz-40kHz.

philharmonic & Salk are more into accurate sound.

 

[slipperybidness]

The Goldenear and DefTechs are very similar, but the def techs are bipolar. In general I've been reading that due to this the deftechs need to be placed a lot farther from the front wall than other speakers.

I think the real advantage of the Goldenears is the folded ribbon tweeter (and the built in subs). If you have never heard a folded ribbon, do yourself a favor and go for an audition.

For music, I find the goldenears are excellent. For movies, you will need an outboard sub if you want that heart-stopping bass.

 

[Bun-Bun]

Dire Straits - Borther In Arms

These Klipsch RF-62's just can't handle it! Seriously I do not know what it is about this track that these horn's just break up all over the place.

Salk and Philharmonics seem to be in a league beyond me. That and my spouse is cringing at the thought lol.

GoldenEar and DefTech seem really interesting. Unfortunately no dealers anywhere near me. Concern's about placing them in rooms. Seem to be more tricky due to their design.

XPA-3 vs UPA-2. XPA-3 would be more blanaced and give me more power then i'll ever need. UPA-2 should me enough power for what I want and I can bi-amp the center as my AVR has assignable outputs. Thoughts?
I am leaning towards the XPA-3 and using my AVR for the surrounds. Reviews suggest it can handle a 4ohm load and puts out 90watts @ 8 ohms x 2 and then tapers off for 50-60watts in multichannel.

What about Emotiva speakers? I am really digging their look http://emotiva.com/ert83.shtm