Full range with Sub???

ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Hello,
Please forgive my ignorance, how do you run your mains full range with a subwoofer, how is this configured in the receiver setup menu? Thanks guys, I really do not know, is this possible or am I missing something.
Jeff
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
Depends on the receiver, but in general that's something you shouldn't do. Bass takes a lot of power and your mains will draw a ton of it trying to reproduce the low frequencies. Your sub is already taking care of them. Leave the low end to the sub and free up more usable power for your mains to produce midbass and higher.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
You may want to run full-range to towers if they have built in subs and amps. In that case, you probably want to be sure that the speakers are set to "large" in the reciever settings.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Short answer is: you don't :) (you don't want both playing together)

If you want full range for music when the sub is currently setup in the system, most receivers have a "pure direct" or "source direct" that bypasses bass management and sets all speakers to large temporarily without affecting your saved settings.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
The question was how to do it, not whether it is a good idea to do so. ;)

Most brands of receivers have a mode that allows it and it goes by different names like LFE+MAIN and Double Bass. You set the mains to Large/Full Band and then set the subwoofer mode to LFE+MAIN/Double Bass.

The result: a lot of bass that probably doesn't sound all that good.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Bass takes a lot of power and your mains will draw a ton of it trying to reproduce the low frequencies. Your sub is already taking care of them. Leave the low end to the sub and free up more usable power for your mains to produce midbass and higher.
Not untrue, but if your mains are (truly) capable, adding more sources of bass into the room will only serve to smooth out response, which is a good thing.

The result: a lot of bass that probably doesn't sound all that good.
Actually, if the integration was correct, it probably sounds great. :)
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Not untrue, but if your mains are (truly) capable, adding more sources of bass into the room will only serve to smooth out response, which is a good thing.

Actually, if the integration was correct, it probably sounds great. :)
I agree, however that integration isn't as simple as flipping a switch :)
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
If your mains have sealed 15" woofers that roll off around 60hz it is :D
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
If your mains have sealed 15" woofers that roll off around 60hz it is :D
Grant, thanks to you and all that responded, I don't have sealed 15" woofers that roll off @ 60Hz, so I will not attempt to run full range with sub, I have run full range in the direct or pure mode and was quite satisfied with results. Again thanks for the replies.
Jeff
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Grant, thanks to you and all that responded, I don't have sealed 15" woofers that roll off @ 60Hz, so I will not attempt to run full range with sub, I have run full range in the direct or pure mode and was quite satisfied with results. Again thanks for the replies.
Jeff
It's okay if your woofers roll off at 40hz ;) :rolleyes: :D you just lose some sensitivity :p

Generally the main thing is that you want speakers that can play ridiculously loud in the bass. Then when you roll in subs via bass management, they just smooth out top octave response and squeeze out the bottom octaves
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
It's okay if your woofers roll off at 40hz ;) :rolleyes: :D you just lose some sensitivity :p

Generally the main thing is that you want speakers that can play ridiculously loud in the bass. Then when you roll in subs via bass management, they just smooth out top octave response and squeeze out the bottom octaves
Grant, I think I will give it a shot and see what happens, let you know, thanks again
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Grant, thanks to you and all that responded, I don't have sealed 15" woofers that roll off @ 60Hz, so I will not attempt to run full range with sub, I have run full range in the direct or pure mode and was quite satisfied with results. Again thanks for the replies.
Jeff
There is nothing wrong with using your mains full range and supplementing with the sub.

Actually for most music and most speakers it is the best approach.

Set your mains to large and set the sub to between 1.5 and 2 X the F3 of your speakers. Experiment to find the best frequency to bring in the sub.

Avoid over driving the sub. Keep it at a volume where the music has a natural balance. If your attention is drawn to the sub, it is too loud.

This is the method preferred by B & W.

I use this on my downstairs system. The speakers have a good bass response, but slightly filling in the last half octave makes a worthwhile difference. You hear virtually nothing from the subs up close, but switch them off and you notice it as soon as there is deep bass on the program.

In most parts of the program the sub makes no difference which is the way it should be.

HT is a little different, as Hollywood blast the LFE channel at unrealistic levels. This bass content might damage some speakers.

As I have said often, there is little program below 80 Hz, and seldom much going on below 40 Hz. Most of the power is between 80 Hz and 2.5 kHz. The power divide is 400 Hz, so as much amp power is used above 400 Hz as below it.

I was watching the spectrum meter on a performance of Elijah from the Royal Albert Hall to day. This used 500 performers, including the "Voice of Jupiter". Most of the time the big power demand was between 200 Hz and 1.5 kHz and quite often out to 3 khz. Only when the organist let the "Voice of Jupiter " rip, was there content down to and below 20 Hz. Even then the power demands between 400 and 700 Hz, were much greater than those below 80 Hz.

This nonsense that there are huge demands on bass power outside Hollywood's realms of fantasy are just plain wrong.

Part of the problem arises because of the ubiquity of narrow front speakers with small drivers.

All of the budget speakers have grossly inadequate BSE, and so sound puny and thin. Full BSE compensation puts huge demand on drivers, especially small ones, and you end up with thermal compression and or damage, unless they are very costly drivers. Also with passive crossovers full BSE makes for big amp demands, because of the db/spl curve. So it is a good blower of receivers.

So the result I find is that people tend to over compensate for adequate BSE by over driving their subs. This is far from natural reproduction.
 
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