Best subwoofer for $600?

5

55katest55

Audioholic
I'm insanely excited. :eek: Im kind of nervous about the whole B-stock thing though. I don't understand why the lady couldn't check the condition for me lol. Maybe I'll call back later today. They seem like a great company too, and I've never heard of reliability issues. Technically the B-stock can't be older than 30 days right? Thanks for the thanks! Thank you (and a guy at a diff forum) for the idea!
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Well, hopefully it's not too bad. If it's more than just minor visual imperfections it shouldn't be sold as B-stock, and if it's got real damage (ie damaged amp or driver) it wouldn't be sold at all.

and I just saw your posts in the outlaw thread on avs :D
 
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5

55katest55

Audioholic
Well, hopefully it's not too bad. If it's more than just minor visual imperfections it shouldn't be sold as B-stock, and if it's got real damage (ie damaged amp or driver) it wouldn't be sold at all.

and I just saw your posts in the outlaw thread on avs :D
Haha, yep, I've got them everywhere. :D I almost wish i had more time so I could take advantage of their sweet sales. But I digress...

Anyway, I guess that's true, if it's really bad I could exchange it or worse comes to worse just return it. Would you say your plexiglass problem is more significant than a scratch? I honestly can't tell, and IMO it looks sweet (I assume the wavy lines are the unevenness?) lol, but I dunno. I've got until monday to cancel since that's when they're charging me (long story short, I have a whole extra month to pay if I charge it the 18th or over) so I'm still researching. :p Is Outlaws warranty 3 years everything?

How would you guys say a HSU based sub like the LFM compares accuracy wise to the direct servo FV12? I'm just trying to find out if the FV12s accuracy is leaps and bounds better than everything else.
 
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its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
The not-perfectly flat plexiglass doesn't really bother me at all. It is more significant than a scratch if the scratch is on the back or bottom, and that's only because it's visible. Scratches on the front or side would bother me more.

I haven't heard a Rythmik or any other servo based subs so I can't say how it would compare, but I will say that the EX doesn't sound sloppy or anything like that.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I doubt you would really go wrong with any of those subs :) Note too that the Outlaw subs are basically HSU designs.
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
I doubt you would really go wrong with any of those subs :) Note too that the Outlaw subs are basically HSU designs.
Ive heard this, definitely makes me happy. Ive never heard a bad word about HSUs subs or customer service.
 
96cobra10101

96cobra10101

Senior Audioholic
Been following this post, the Epiks seem like the way to go. I'm probably doing double Empires.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Ive heard this, definitely makes me happy. Ive never heard a bad word about HSUs subs or customer service.
I don't think they are actually made by HSU, just designed by them and are manufactured by Outlaw, but you never know. I know HSU does this for other companies as well.

Been following this post, the Epiks seem like the way to go. I'm probably doing double Empires.
I wasn't sure what I was going to get when I ordered the Empire, and output was a concern, but I have to say I am still impressed by it every time I listen to it.
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
I don't think they are actually made by HSU, just designed by them and are manufactured by Outlaw, but you never know. I know HSU does this for other companies as well.
Guess that probably didnt make sense in hind sight lol. That is indeed what i meant though, their designs seem solid and problem free.
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
Argh, still cant decide 100% on if i should go with the Rythmik FV12 or the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. :( Better make my mind up by tomorrow morning...
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
$499.00 Rythmik on sale vs $650 Outlaw, seems pretty simple to me.....

Both 12" ported

Rythmik has the reputable servo, another bonus - they are very clean and accurate....
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
$499.00 Rythmik on sale vs $650 Outlaw, seems pretty simple to me.....

Both 12" ported

Rythmik has the reputable servo, another bonus - they are very clean and accurate....
I shouldve said, for the same amount shipped. There are B-stock EXes which is what i'd get.

Argh, still cant decide 100% on if i should go with the Rythmik FV12 or the Outlaw LFM-1 EX (for the same price shipped). :( Better make my mind up by tomorrow morning...
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
In all honesty - I'm not a huge fan of this particular down firing product...

Bottom


Thos ports are less then 2" from the floor - from all the designing stages I have gone through with ported builds - it was always suggested a bit more distance be given to the ports from a wall or floor...

Personally if it were me I would go with the Rythmik...
Straight forward design and implimentation - I'd also give the edge to the Servo for Accuracy down low around tuning....
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
Interesting...

Btw, I meant to tell you your funky waves sub is sweet, wish I could afford a funky waves!

Edit: holy crap, those other AE designed subs are beautiful.
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I have some LFM-1 EXs, and the distance from ports to floor is not a issue. Also the subs can be easily raised a bit with some PVC around the feet, I believe 2" PVC pieces fit the feet perfectly. I have mine elevated about an inch, but I don't think I really need it. It might be worth it for those with a thick or deep carpet though. As for the LFM vs the Rythmik, I think I would stick with the LFM for the reasons it will be able to dig deeper and also has tuning options. As for the Rythmik's sound quality edge, I really wonder if it is that much of an advantage. While I have not heard one, I have heard Velodyne subs with a servo feedback technology, and I didn't hear any perceivable edge in sound quality, although I understand their subs use a somewhat different feedback mechanism. But in the end we are talking about achieving linearity, are the servo drivers actually more linear than others? If so, why don't what are widely considered the best drivers and best sub makers using that techology, ie JL audio, TC Sounds, Eminence, Peerless, Exodus, etc?
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Interesting...

Btw, I meant to tell you your funky waves sub is sweet, wish I could afford a funky waves!

Edit: holy crap, those other AE designed subs are beautiful.
Thanks
My XLERATORS are my design and build, just had John at AE build the boxes....

But in the end we are talking about achieving linearity, are the servo drivers actually more linear than others? If so, why don't what are widely considered the best drivers and best sub makers using that techology, ie JL audio, TC Sounds, Eminence, Peerless, Exodus, etc?
In all honesty I have not heard the outlaw, it may have been designed by hsu, and looks nice but - perhaps your idea of accurate is different then mine....

I've had many subs in my house, DIY as well as commercial, and I obviously spent the kind of money I did on these LMS's for a reason - SQ and accuracy. Good Bass Matters to me....


There are many ways to skin a cat, not all perform as great as others.... its the attention to details in driver design and implementation that makes the more expensive drivers tend to stand out with better accuracy and SQ.... TC uses the Linear motor tech, some manufactures XBL^2 with shorting rings in the coils to keep accuracy in check - Rythmik has their feedback servo, which is and has been proven design.

I'd love to get your take on the differences in SQ with your outlaw against my LMS just for fun I had a few sub shootouts at my house - Rythmik, JL, XXX-18, Mal-X, TC 2000's, TC-3000, 18" LMS, eD.... There were some clear winners in the group, and Rythmik was right up there with the JL, and LMS.... I'm not knocking the Outlaw so please don't take offense. I'm just questioning why they designed that sub with the ports so close to the ground.
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
But which Rythmik did you get? The FV12 is their cheapest model, made with their cheapest used materials, and its ported. Surely the one you got was their highest or near highest end to be able to compete with those other monsters.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
But which Rythmik did you get? The FV12 is their cheapest model, made with their cheapest used materials, and its ported. Surely the one you got was their highest or near highest end to be able to compete with those other monsters.
The Rythmiks were not mine, Sealed 15" was one of the attendees and Brian from Rythmik sent me the prototype of the 15" ported to have at the GTG...

I will stand by my thoughts that the Rythmik was a very clean product in terms of SQ compared to the other budget subs I have heard.
The feedback circuit is the same on all their subs.... built into the amp and works directly with the coil/motor

Here are some pics of the event....
http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/ww131/lennon_68/Warpdrv GTG Feb 28 2009/?albumview=slideshow
Guy with the goatee is Josh Ricci, he's the one taking all the new measurements, his DataBass project... http://www.data-bass.com/systems

Thread
http://72.9.159.100/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111483
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
The Rythmiks were not mine, Sealed 15" was one of the attendees and Brian from Rythmik sent me the prototype of the 15" ported to have at the GTG...

I will stand by my thoughts that the Rythmik was a very clean product in terms of SQ compared to the other budget subs I have heard.
The feedback circuit is the same on all their subs.... built into the amp and works directly with the coil/motor

Here are some pics of the event....
http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/ww131/lennon_68/Warpdrv GTG Feb 28 2009/?albumview=slideshow
Guy with the goatee is Josh Ricci, he's the one taking all the new measurements, his DataBass project... http://www.data-bass.com/systems

Thread
http://72.9.159.100/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111483

But it wasnt really a budget sub. :D I have heard they are very clean though. Those are cool pics, thanks for those!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I can compare the Outlaw subs to my Hsu ULS-15s, which use Adire's XBL^2 technology, and of course the ULS subs sound cleaner, but these are much more expensive, powerful, sealed subs vs large ported subs, so its not a very useful comparison. I have no doubt that a sealed 15" using TC Sounds, Rythmik, XXX, or JL Audio is going to sound better.

But for a ported 12" with a medium powered amp, the Outlaw sounds terrific, and has a ton of output, it will be hard to top, and I would guess the FV12 wouldn't have any perceivable advantage and in the deep bass would be at a disadvantage. That's just a guess though, and I would like to hear it for myself. As for the down-firing ports, I can tell you they have enough clearance from the ground to sound good. I have compared them to my Hsu VTF3's, which is very much alike albeit the ports are in the rear on the VTF3s, and I can't really tell the difference. Maybe I should do a closer listen however, as I didn't really do a very thorough comparison. But again, I have the Outlaws raised about an inch higher than the stock feet allow. The Outlaw subs can also be placed on their side to be front firing if there was ever a port clearance issue. But certainly one reason the ports are on the bottom is to lessen any audible port noise, as well as for aesthetic reasons. Anyway which sounds sharper is all guessing until a blind comparison can be done, and even then what sounds better is a matter of opinion.
 

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