Thoughts on Zaphaudio ZD5 (Scan Speak 15W8530K00 & Vifa XT25)

[Xytech]

Hi all,

I've got an opportunity to pick a pair of these speakers up for about $1500 AUD, stands included. To get an idea of how much speakers cost over here - basically add 80% to whatever you pay in the states.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows anything about how these speakers, and what sort of speakers/price range you would compare against?
Details are here: http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZD5.html
Cost of parts is listed as $750 - link here: https://docs.google.com/a/student.mo...kE&hl=en#gid=0
From my understanding to get those parts over here is closer to $900.

I know that the builder is very experienced and from people who have heard them, reports are very good.

I heard them and they sounded very good - I am just wondering if I should bother looking around or whether these will be the best bookshelves I can get around this price and whether I might as well just grab them. In particular, any thoughts on how they would compare with the ATC SCM 11?

Cheers

 

[GranteedEV]

Zaph is a respected loudspeaker designer. I'm skeptical about those speakers' ability to handle dynamic transients and deeper bass, though, especially for that cost.

Here's a couple other designs you might want to consider building:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68531
http://www.zaphaudio.com/Waveguidetmm.html
http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements.html
http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=MBOW1_3-WAY.html
http://www.musicanddesign.com/NaO_NoteDetails.html

 

[jinjuku]

The question is can you DIY?

For $1500? I would look at Zaph's 2 way Revelator for ~$1K. This is showing about $980 AUS.

Plus shipping and customs.

If that guy is a cabinet build just hire him for the cabinets. In the U.S. it would take $40 of MDF plus $90 in wood veneer plus labor.

 

[Xytech]

Thanks for your thoughts guys,
I should have mentioned that I am comparing these speakers only against other bookshelf speakers - I have come to the conclusion that room is simply not big enough for anything else, and I need to sit no more than 3 foot away from them. Hence why I'm not really looking at bigger options. In regards to DIY - truth be told, I don't really know much about it and at this point in my life, probably isn't a good time to start unfortunately!

 

[jinjuku]

Thanks for your thoughts guys,
I should have mentioned that I am comparing these speakers only against other bookshelf speakers - I have come to the conclusion that room is simply not big enough for anything else, and I need to sit no more than 3 foot away from them. Hence why I'm not really looking at bigger options. In regards to DIY - truth be told, I don't really know much about it and at this point in my life, probably isn't a good time to start unfortunately!

You don't have to build them. Have them built. I'm just not sure what $1K AUS is going to cost you to get shipped in.

I believe with the left over money you could easily pay a cabinet maker to knock out a pair of enclosures for you. With the Revelators you wouldn't need speaker stands. Bookshelf speakers on stands take up the same amount of room as floor standers of same width and depth. Just trying to see the best speaker that can be had for the money.

 

[Xytech]

Thanks for your thoughts. Do you think these speakers would perform significantly better in a (rather) small room than the ZD5's? I think if I do get the ZD5s i'd pair them with a woofer for large opera/big orchestral works.

I've attached some pictures of the room they will be used in. You will see the main problem is my large desk - which I can't get rid of. The advantage of the zd5s is that they will sit just over the desk.

The seller has billed the zd5s for $1500 as a real bargain, comparable with much more expensive bookshelf speakers. I don't have a huge knowledge of these things though.

Cheers

 

[jinjuku]

Thanks for your thoughts. Do you think these speakers would perform significantly better in a (rather) small room than the ZD5's? I think if I do get the ZD5s i'd pair them with a woofer for large opera/big orchestral works.

I've attached some pictures of the room they will be used in. You will see the main problem is my large desk - which I can't get rid of. The advantage of the zd5s is that they will sit just over the desk.

The seller has billed the zd5s for $1500 as a real bargain, comparable with much more expensive bookshelf speakers. I don't have a huge knowledge of these things though.

Cheers

The Revelators aren't a large speaker. You would simply get the cabinets built to put the tweeters at ear. So keep all the internal volumes/sizes the same and simply extend the length.

Yes I believe the Revelators will outperform. The drivers are simply in a higher class.

 

[GranteedEV]

Yes I believe the Revelators will outperform. The drivers are simply in a higher class.

Here's what zaph said about the ZRT vs ZD5:

Considering the ZRT and ZD5, these systems are not better or worse than each other, just different and you have to pick the one that suits you.

For most people, if there is no subwoofer in use, the 2-way tower version of the ZRT has some of the most satisfying bass (extension and quality) that you'll ever hear out of a 7" woofer. This is less true in the 20 liter sealed cabinet however. The bass extension will not be any better than the L18 system.

The ZD5 has a narrower vertical listening window. However, within that window the lower treble will be a tiny bit smoother due to the 2nd order acoustic slopes and their better power response.

The ZRT has lower distortion in the lower treble thanks to the 6600, but it's not magnitudes lower than the XT25. The difference would not jump out at you.

The ZD5 is only a little cheaper when you factor in crossover cost. And if you're building the crossovers yourself, the complexity of the ladder delay circuit may be an issue.

Looks can be important, and you can't ignore that ZD5's slim design. Of course you'll need to build the enclosure yourself or have someone build them for you, since a 7" wide pre-fab enclosure is not available.

 

[jinjuku]

Here's what zaph said about the ZRT vs ZD5:

I have seen that and in my book that means overall the ZRT is simply a speaker of fewer compromises. Nothing's perfect and given the relative costs I would do the Revelators. Remember I am overall not a fan of 'slim' speakers. They are simply a compromise to aesthetics.

Here is a link to the thread that Grant is referring to.

 

[GranteedEV]

I have seen that and in my book that means overall the ZRT is simply a speaker of fewer compromises. Nothing's perfect and given the relative costs I would do the Revelators. Remember I am overall not a fan of 'slim' speakers. They are simply a compromise to aesthetics.

I dunno, personally I would go with the speaker with the better power response... Either way I think any simple 2-way like this, will be wimpy.

And it's not true that slim speakers are a dynamic compromise.

http://www.parts-express.com/cbt36/index.cfm?&utm_source=Catalog&utm_medium=Print&utm_content=DON+KEELE+CATALOG&utm_campaign=Catalog_2011

 

[Adam]

http://www.parts-express.com/cbt36/index.cfm?&utm_source=Catalog&utm_medium=Print&utm_content=DON+KEELE+CATALOG&utm_campaign=Catalog_2011

Can someone actually buy those? You got me interested enough to look around a bit, and it seems like they've existed since at least last July - but I don't see any way to buy them.

 

[GranteedEV]

Can someone actually buy those? You got me interested enough to look around a bit, and it seems like they've existed since at least last July - but I don't see any way to buy them.

I don't think Parts Express, has the drivers in stock yet, to sell the kit yet.

Eventually it'll be a kit with exceptional directivity characteristics.

 

[jinjuku]

I dunno, personally I would go with the speaker with the better power response... Either way I think any simple 2-way like this, will be wimpy.

And it's not true that slim speakers are a dynamic compromise.

http://www.parts-express.com/cbt36/index.cfm?&utm_source=Catalog&utm_medium=Print&utm_content=DON+KEELE+CATALOG&utm_campaign=Catalog_2011

Agreed on the two way but his space is what it is. Lol, that is a lot of transducers. Been waiting for ever to actually see the parts show up at PE.

 

[Xytech]

Thanks very much everyone,

Am I right to deduce that if I did decide go with the revelator, or any floorstander over bookshelves for that matter, it won't make a decisive difference within my room? I have to say that is the main concern at this stage. I hear lots of people talking about bass waves being disrupted and all sorts of sciencey stuff I am not really up with. If on the other hand my room is just crap, and it doesn't matter what speaker I put in there - it will still be crap, I would still preference a floorstander.

I should also add that the $1500 asking price on the ZD5's includes them fully built with stands, good to go. If I went the revelators, I could see it being a more expensive and drawn out process? Or is it basically, buy the kit, go to cabinet maker, get cabinets made, the end?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Xytech, really sorry for below post, but I feel someone should said that.

After you're posted pics of your room, I get strong feeling that critical musical listening isn't or shouldn't be your top priority.
It seems like you are strongly into computer/console gaming, there for best bang for your buck would to invest into better subwoofer.

I think you should just get 2x Infinity Primus P163 bookshelfs - amazon has them on sale for $85 ea plus shipping to AU, still probably wont be too expensive
Get some kick a$$ subwoofer, if you could find a good local maker - it would be preferred.

Spend the rest towards organizing your room

 

[jinjuku]

Thanks very much everyone,

Am I right to deduce that if I did decide go with the revelator, or any floorstander over bookshelves for that matter, it won't make a decisive difference within my room? I have to say that is the main concern at this stage. I hear lots of people talking about bass waves being disrupted and all sorts of sciencey stuff I am not really up with. If on the other hand my room is just crap, and it doesn't matter what speaker I put in there - it will still be crap, I would still preference a floorstander.

I should also add that the $1500 asking price on the ZD5's includes them fully built with stands, good to go. If I went the revelators, I could see it being a more expensive and drawn out process? Or is it basically, buy the kit, go to cabinet maker, get cabinets made, the end?

I think it is simply worth exploring what it would cost to get the cabinets built and see how close you come to the $1500 mark in total. Cabinets shouldn't bee that much. I figure I would charge some one $300 including materials:

MDF
Glue
Vinyl Veneer
Satin black painted baffle

Remember a speaker like the ZDT 2 way is simply a bookshelf with a 'built in' or 'integrated' stand.

 

[GranteedEV]

Am I right to deduce that if I did decide go with the revelator, or any floorstander over bookshelves for that matter, it won't make a decisive difference within my room?

Well, a bass woofer located closer to the ground, might load the floor-ceiling mode a bit differently (arguably better). This is what Zaph does in the 2.5 way version of the ZRT, instead of space them close together:

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2.5-way-speaker-kits/zaph|audio-zrt-2.5-way-revelator-tower-complete-with-cabinets-pair/

I think all non-auditorium sized rooms are problematic in the bass, and you should never expect any single speaker to address those problems adequately. The closest you can get, would be a dipole speaker that shifts towards cardioid, because dipoles don't excite the width/height modes a lot (only the depth mode, assuming it is aligned parallel to the wall of course) and the cardioid excites the modes more uniformly than a monopole. The Nao Note is one such example. http://www.musicanddesign.com/NaO_NoteDetails.html


Otherwise, the only way to really optimize bass in any room, is to deal with the room itself, not the size of the source.

it will still be crap, I would still preference a floorstander.

The only caveat with a floorstander, is that because they do have long panels which can resonate in the upper bass and lower midrange, you need more adequate bracing and constrain layer damping, compared to a bookshelf. I recommend modeling the box yourself, in Martin J King's quarter wave software.

BTW, what happened to the Philharmonics? I know the 3s were expensive but the 1s or 2s weren't so much...