Some advice please. NAS, HTPC, Media Server or other?

O

oldgit9

Audiophyte
Im sorry if this is in the wrong section. If it is, mod/admin please move.

Im looking into either making or buying a system for my house and im a little confused as to what set up should I go for as im new to all of this kind of thing. Basically, I want a place to store all of my downloaded movies and tv and to view them on my 40” HDTV. I also want the system to be able to stream the movies, tv, music etc to other laptops around the house and to be able to watch and record free sat HD channels.

I have read many different posts on here and on other forums, but none of them seem to combine all that I want….so what system would be best for what I want? A NAS, HTPC or a Media Server or something ells?

My requirements :-
• It must be quiet. As the system box will be in my living room or under the TV.
• It must use relatively little power when it's not streaming media. This device will be running 24/7 and so running costs cannot be ignored.
• It must not generate a lot of heat.
• It must be flexible enough to do pretty much what I want with it.
• I want to be able to record TV programmes with it. I then want to be able to stream these programmes around the house. I have a few laptops and a PS3, iphone and ipods too, so it must be able to support these.
• *********************************************
• It must be powerful enough to support multiple, simultaneous, High-Definition video streams. Not only that, but it must be able to do this whilst doing other things too, such as backing up my desktop or laptop computers or re-encoding video files.
• It must be headless. BUT I need a GUI interface.
• It must be stable. I don't want to be tinkering with it every 5 minutes. Nor do I want to be rebooting it every couple of days.
• I don't want to have to buy an operating system for it. Nor do I want to be worried about the latest and greatest virus infecting it.
• The unit must be able to throttle down when idle. By this I mean the drives must spin down when they're not being used. This will save power and ease cooling.
• It mustn’t cost the earth to buy.
• It must be easy to use. So that the wife and daughter (with very little computer knowledge) can use it easily enough. And it must have its own IR remote control. For easier control.
• Must be able to upgrade the system components (ie HDD) at some point in time.
• The system must be secure. So that no one (other than who I will allow) can access the media. The files and folders must be “read only”. So that only I can add, modify, move or delete any files.
• To be able to watch one channel and to record one or more other channels. and as we have no satellite or cable subscriptions, the system must be able to view and record free sat HD channels.
• The system is to have a blue ray drive. For watching movies and for ripping.
• The system must be able to run a 5.1 surround sound speakers. If this is not possible, then the system must be able to connect to a surround sound system or AV receiver.
• I know I’ve already mentioned it, but it worth mentioning it again, the system must cost next to nothing. I am on a tight budget.

Im sure there are more things that I could add to the list of requirements, bit I cant think of them at this point.

So what would you all think would be best for me?
 
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jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
The iron triangle:

1. You can have it done right
2. You can have it done cheap
3. You can have it done quickly

Pick two.

BTW, we aren't going to be talking about illegal downloads (torrent of TV shows) here.

Looking through your list: You're asking for too much out of a singular or low cost solution. I would revise the list to 3 or 4 primary points and go from there.

You could do a low power Brazos system with a HD Homerun HDTV (OTA) or Encrypted QAM tuner. This would set you back about $800-900.

You could then use MCE extenders throughout the house.

You could also look at solutions from AMX/Crestron but there goes any budget options. But they won't back anything up automatically. So you are back to an OS based system.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
So what would you all think would be best for me?
A reality check. ;)

A cheap PC is around $400 and can't do anything close to what you want. A dedicated media player comes with minimal/zero storage, and can't do most of this.

A NAS, HTPC or a Media Server or something ells?
A NAS is storage, it's not a media player, it's not a HTPC. The HTPC is a PC, so expecting a reliable, complication free experience is not at all realistic. The media server, once setup, can be easy to use, but every single one of them has some serious limitations. Most of all, a media player or HTPC is a one-to-one device. You get ONE player, so ONE video stream. If you want 10 video streams, buy 10 players, then use a NAS setup to play it at 10 locations.

There are likely some NAS drives with some built in iPod capabilities, but it will be extremely limited.

• It must be quiet. As the system box will be in my living room or under the TV.
Quiet is possible, many players are quiet.

It must use relatively little power when it's not streaming media. This device will be running 24/7 and so running costs cannot be ignored.
If the device is on 24/7 then usage will be as appropriate to run the device. Many drives will spin down when not in use, but that only saves a bit of power. Running the GUI and entire user interface requires YOU to turn it off when not in use. This is how you save power.

It must not generate a lot of heat.
With what you want, it is unavoidable.

It must be flexible enough to do pretty much what I want with it.
Then you will need to drop several thousand on a top shelf HTPC with all the bells and whistles.

I want to be able to record TV programmes with it. I then want to be able to stream these programmes around the house. I have a few laptops and a PS3, iphone and ipods too, so it must be able to support these.
This would be a HTPC with a tuner card, all the right software to run it, then adding in some sort of streamer to allow it to serve video up to some sort of iPod interface, etc. PS3 can get most files stored on your network and is already a decent media server for many people.

It must be powerful enough to support multiple, simultaneous, High-Definition video streams. Not only that, but it must be able to do this whilst doing other things too, such as backing up my desktop or laptop computers or re-encoding video files.
A single HD video stream can take most of the processing power of a decent computer. This is why you must buy multiple boxes. On the other hand, a stream of pre-encoded video from a NAS will be as fast as the NAS and your home network is. Once you max out your network, then your network is at fault, not the box. Typically 3 streams of Blu-ray material is all a network can support with good equipment.

It must be headless. BUT I need a GUI interface.
Everything of any quality needs some sort of display for setup and configuration. With a HTPC you will be neck deep in your specific requirements.

It must be stable. I don't want to be tinkering with it every 5 minutes. Nor do I want to be rebooting it every couple of days.
It's a PC, it will be as stable as PCs can be. A media server can be far more stable, but also won't offer the same features or capabilties or an option to expand those capabilities.

I don't want to have to buy an operating system for it. Nor do I want to be worried about the latest and greatest virus infecting it.
Then, why even ask about a HTPC? The PC part of home theater PC, implies a PC operating system - Windows.

The unit must be able to throttle down when idle. By this I mean the drives must spin down when they're not being used. This will save power and ease cooling.
As already said, this is possible, but your storage is better met with a RAID located somewhere else in the house that the HTPC or Media Server can access on a hard wired gigabit network.

It mustn’t cost the earth to buy.
It won't, but plan on spending several thousand dollars. Not really that much for what you are asking for.

It must be easy to use. So that the wife and daughter (with very little computer knowledge) can use it easily enough. And it must have its own IR remote control. For easier control.
Right, you want 500 functions, but they must all be laid out so the wife can figure it out after using 1 or 2 other remotes to even get to this remote to run it. How about you get a good universal remote, and then program it so it's easy to use? Almost all HTPC and media server setups use a remote control and are fairly easy to use. Every one of them is a bit different though.

Must be able to upgrade the system components (ie HDD) at some point in time.
Back to the HTPC then. You aren't being realistic on this outside of a HTPC. And, if you buy a good unit, then likely you are running at the edge of the capabilties of all the components in it already. So, when you upgrade, it likely will be easier to just upgrade everything. It should still run for 5+ years without issues, and a NAS RAID can run for years and years without any issues.

The system must be secure. So that no one (other than who I will allow) can access the media. The files and folders must be “read only”. So that only I can add, modify, move or delete any files.
A NAS RAID can be setup this way for your data files and protection of that data. A media server is pretty much secure, a HTPC is a PC and has all the shortcomings of a PC.

To be able to watch one channel and to record one or more other channels. and as we have no satellite or cable subscriptions, the system must be able to view and record free sat HD channels.
There are only a handful of products which can record HD channels. Since I have a DVR in my home, I'm not aware of those products. You will have to get an answer to that specific question, but I'm pretty sure you are back to the HTPC.

The system is to have a blue ray drive. For watching movies and for ripping.
Back to a HTPC again. In the USA it is illegal to break the encryption on a Blu-ray Disc so you will not be able to buy any commercial product with that capability built in. There are solutions, but they are in the HTPC world.

The system must be able to run a 5.1 surround sound speakers. If this is not possible, then the system must be able to connect to a surround sound system or AV receiver.
Having outputs for surround sound are standard on a media server and/or HTPC.

I know I’ve already mentioned it, but it worth mentioning it again, the system must cost next to nothing. I am on a tight budget.[/quote
Now it's a tight budget? Get a grip on reality! A couple hundred hours of movies can consume several terrabytes of storage. 100 Blu-ray Discs can fill up over 4TB of storage.

In storage alone, I would expect that you will quickly expect to spend $750 for a bottom of the line NAS RAID unit with about 5.7TB of storage, and you will fill it up and need more. That completely ignores any media server of HTPC.

Im sure there are more things that I could add to the list of requirements, bit I cant think of them at this point.
I can think of a million things I wish my media server did, but it doesn't do them. What it does, it does fairly well, but not great. It ran about $400 for the media server (HDI Dune Base 3.0) and then I have added about 12TB of storage capabilities to it.

For that, I get my Blu-ray collection and a lot of Internet downloads available to one person, and one TV in my home. I am going to get a second one because my family does love it.

I wish you luck, but you are about 5+ years to early on your dream product. When it comes out, expect to pay upwards of $2,000 for it.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I agree with pretty much everything said above me, there are few little points:
Given the flexibility you want - the only way to go would a pc or mac.
New Mac mini actually packs decent amount of muscle. You could ran with Plex frontend.
But you'd never be able to expand it with additional hard-drives, not to capture HD TV or play images of locally stored BluRay movies.

What you really need is
a) Reality check
b) Hardware media client (for every room) like one BMX suggested
c)one per NAS storage box

and it's not going to cheap, but quiet, low-powered and little on heat
 
O

oldgit9

Audiophyte
Thanks guys for all of your comments and suggestions. Sorry for the slow reply, im stuck on a war ship off the coast of Libya and our internet connection gets cuff off at a regular intervals.

@BMXTRIX
thanks for the detailed explanations after each point.

@ BMXTRIX and BoresSysAdmin
there was no need to get personal. Was there any need to say “get a reality check”??? as I already said, “im new to this kind of thing”….so I don’t know whats what at the moment (im still researching). How was I to know, the there isn’t such a device out there (at the moment) that can do what im asking…common guys, show some compassion to a noob here. You were all a noob at some point in time!


i will take your suggeestions and keep on looking around for an alternative system.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
@ BMXTRIX and BoresSysAdmin
there was no need to get personal. Was there any need to say “get a reality check”??? as I already said, “im new to this kind of thing”….so I don’t know whats what at the moment (im still researching). How was I to know, the there isn’t such a device out there (at the moment) that can do what im asking…common guys, show some compassion to a noob here. You were all a noob at some point in time!
Yes, while you did mention you were new to this, your EXTREMELY long list of requirements suggested you did you're homework. Me and BMX suggested you get an C on the homework assignment and should get more homework done.
No need to take it personally.

btw: Thank you for your service!
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
I tried 3 times to come up with an explanation of why this just wasn't doable without spending a lot of money and deleted it 3 times. The requirements list was just too long. My advice is to start with a 5+TB network attached storage (NAS) system with redundancy (~$1000 with drives is a good budget number) and a simple and inexpensive playback device like a Western Digital TV Live (~$90) or perhaps the Netgear NEO 550. I used the WDTV Live for well over a year and it did most of what I'm looking for. But the WD's design is starting to get long in the tooth meaning it has limitations. I haven't tried the Netgear but if it actually does what they claim it looks like it could be very interesting. Later on as the technology improves you can look at more sophisticated solutions.

I'm with the others about torrents and I never use them. To save money you can do your rips from legally purchased sources on your main PC and store them on the NAS for access via playback device(s). Music and DVD work fine over 802.11n wireless but you'll need a hardwired network for HD video.

This is just a simplistic explanation but should give you some food for thought about alternate approaches.

Good luck and thanks for your service.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I wanted something very similar - except in my case, I am using my local cable company's multi-room solution for live television and DVR. But that can certainly be worked into a solution for you :)

I started with a NAS, and I'll let you know why: I wanted to have ALL of my content in one, central location. And from that one, central location, I wanted to be able to access ALL of my content from multiple devices simultaneously. That seems to be similar to what you want.

A NAS by itself is not a complete solution for you, however. But I DO think it is an important PART of what you want to accomplish.

I went with a Synology DS411j. It is a 4-bay unit that sells for around $300 (that's just the NAS enclosure, not any hard drives!). I put four 3TB hard drives into that DS411j NAS, giving me 12TB of hard disc storage. Each 3TB drive cost about $120. I went with Hitachi 5K3000 model drives. They are not the fastest drives in the world, but they are quiet, they run cool (always under 40 degree Celsius) and the DS411j is able to spin them down to save power and then spin them back up when you need to access them.

Synology's NAS units offer quite a lot of flexibility all on their own. Synology offers their own pseudo-operating system called the Synology Disc Station Manager. There are "apps" for the NAS so that you can access your files via the internet, set up the NAS to be a bittorrent client, set up the NAS to be an FTP server, set up the NAS to be an iTunes server, and several other functions. Basically, the NAS becomes your "one stop shop" for ALL of your media. You save everything to the NAS. From there, it is simply a matter of how you want to access your media. The NAS is NOT a playback device. Just a big storage tank!

I've connected my NAS to a dual band (2.4GHz &5GHz) Wireless-N router. I use the 5GHz channel for streaming all of my high def content around, leaving the 2.4GHz channel open for things like my Xbox360 and PS3 for gaming without interfering with the media streaming from the NAS.

You were also concerned with being able to control who can make changes to the files and access the content. Synology's NASes have you covered there as well. You can set a password on your "admin" account so that only you can have access to "admin" level control. You can then set up other user accounts. You can make those accounts "read only" if you like and they can have a password or not. For example, I have a "guest" account for visitors, which has no password and is read-only.

You can also set up your "shared folders". On your hard drives (which can be set up in various RAID configurations, as JBOD, or just as separate "basic" discs) you will set up "volumes". And then "shared folders" within those "volumes". You can designate a "volume" and any shared folders within it as "encrypted". You can also set up volumes that are not encrypted, but they are "invisible" to any file browser like Windows Explorer unless you type in the address to that volume manually. In other words, there are a variety of security measures available so that only you can access certain files and only you can make changes.

So now it becomes a question of how you want to access all of your content. The joy of the Synology NAS is that there are many, many ways!

In my case, I have made backup 1:1 ISO image files of my Blu-ray, HD-DVD and DVD collection. Because I have chosen 1:1 ISO image files, playing them back is not so easy. The Popcorn hour is about the only stand-alone device that is equiped to play ISO image files, but given its price and its sometimes "buggy" nature and rather plain-looking interface, I decided to go a different route.

I went with a Windows 7 HTPC. For me, it is the best solution. Windows 7 Home Premium or higher comes with Windows Media Center baked in. And it is a slick-looking interface that can be controlled with a normal IR remote control (like a Harmony, for example).

There is a FREE program called Media Browser that works inside WMC to give you an even better, even more flexible interface. You can also install various codec packs so that WMC can play back almost any file type. In my case, I'm "mounting" ISO image files, so WMC just "thinks" that I've inserted a physical disc. That requires Blu-ray and HD-DVD playback software. In my case, I use TotalMedia Theatre 5, which costs $99, but works beautifully.

Now, you might not be worried about physical Blu-ray discs or 1:1 ISO image files. You're probably more concerned with MKV files. But you also wanted to do things like encode or transcode files. And because of that, I believe that a Windows 7 HTPC is your best solution too.

With WMC, you can also install multiple TV tuners and use your HTPC as a very slick DVR. With DVRMStoolbox, you can automatically remove commercials and adjust your recording schedule to your heart's content!

With the new "Sandybridge" Core processors from Intel, you don't even need a separate video card for any of this. In your case, since you're worried about speed and transcoding and whatnot, I would recommend that you go with a Core i5 Socket LGA1155 CPU. While the Core i3 Sandybridge processors are more than ample for almost any HTPC, your desire to run multiple other programs while also playing back content makes the i5 a better choice, IMO. There is a "low power" version of the Core i5 called the Core i5-2400S. But you can get similar power savings and actually slightly better performance by using the regular Core i5-2400 and simply lowering the CPU voltage on your motherboard in the BIOS setup. Regardless, it's a remarkably powerful processor. And with a matching motherboard, you get full 1080p video output via HDMI - even FullHD 3D support! You also get full HD-Audio bitstream output support over HDMI, or you can decode the audio with the HTPC and use analogue audio outputs to self-powered speakers if you really don't want to use an A/V Receiver.

Given that you want multiple TV tuners, you will probably want a micro-ATX form factor. I went with the even smaller mini-ITX case, but that only leaves you one, lone PCIe slot for a TV tuner card.

So that's going to be your main "powerhouse" unit. You combine the Windows 7 HTPC with a NAS and you can pretty much make any file type you want and store it all on the NAS so that other devices can access it through your wireless network or over the internet. You can off-load bittorrent download duties to the NAS. The Synology NAS can also serve as a DLNA 1.5 server so that a PS3, Xbox360 or any media streaming device can access compatible file types via DLNA from the NAS.

With the NAS being able to feed ALL of your content to any device that you have, you won't need to keep your HTPC running all the time. Just the NAS can stay powered on 24/7. You would only need to wake up the HTPC when you want to use it for playback or when you are running a transcoding task or some other regular PC duty.

You don't HAVE to use a NAS. You COULD just put a whole bunch of storage into your Windows 7 HTPC and use it as a DLNA server too. But I personally think that the NAS solution makes more sense and is more convenient. In my case, I actually have two DS411j units, each with four 3TB hard drives installed for a total of 24TB of network storage space, plus I've got four 2TB external USB drives that I can connect to the DS411j units for up to 32TB of space. I have all of that storage because 1:1 Blu-ray backups are HUGE - about 40GB a piece! So I eat through storage space VERY quickly :p

Anywho, for everything that you want to do, a Windows 7 HTPC makes the most sense, IMO. You can build one for surprisingly little money. Combine that with a Synology NAS and I believe you could accomplish everything that you want :)
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I forgot to mention, if you don't want to mess with building your own HTPC, you can buy one that is already made! :p

ASRock has some great "mini PCs that are perfect for HTPC duty. They are inexpensive, especially if you do not need 3D support.

If you went with 2TB drives instead of 3TB drives, you could have an 8TB NAS for about $600 with the DS411j and four 2TB drives. Combine that with an ASRock HTPC for around $500-$700 and you're off to the races for well under $1500!

Edit: Here's a nice review of ASRock's newest CoreHT mini PC. It should give you some idea of what to expect for the price :)
 
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O

oldgit9

Audiophyte
thanks "sholling" and "FirstReflection" for your well explained posts.

sorry that i've not responded sooner. been a bit busy at work and im now on R&R.

i have done some more research into this. and from what you guys are saying, the NAS option is well out of my budget :-( so i have decided to go with a HTPC build to keep the cost down.

this is what i have come up with

case - Silverstone LC16B-MR Black
power supply - SilverStone Strider Plus Series ST60F-P
motherboard - ASUS 1155 P8Z68-V PRO S/L
processor - Intel i3-2100 SandybridgeCore i3 Quad-Core
ram - G-Skill 4GBXM Ripjaws X for Intel Sandybridge Platforms
tv card - Hauppauge WinTV HVR4000
hdd - 2TB Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 3.5" SATA III Hard Drive
sdd (for OS only) - OCZ Onyx 32GB 2.5" SATA-II Solid State Hard Drive
optical drive - Samsung SH-B123L 12x BD-ROM DVD±RW DL & RAM Lightscribe SATA Optical Drive
OS - mythbuntu
wi-fi - a dual band wireless N router (HTPC will be connected via ethernet cable. wi-fi for the laptops around the house).

what do you guys think of the above set up? will that set up work?

as for the OS, i will NOT be using windows in any format. too many bugs and 50 time more viruses, Trojans etc. to be worried about. and from my experience over the years, every anti virus program that i have used (free and paid for) slows down my pc/laptop way too much for my liking. hence why i have decided to go with a Linux distro. and muthbuntu looks like to be the better one.
 
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