I've never bought a real subwoofer before and need your help (please)!

[Jeff R.]

You will be blown away with the eD A2-300. I have 2 of them and they really put out some great low end for HT. A little sloppy on music but that is not a conern for you.
I have them in a massive room and they do all I need from an output standpoint.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

So, just to be sure, a nicer subwoofer will definitely improve my system, right?

(going from a HTiaB sub to an eD a2-300)

In combination with proper crossover adjustment - yes - very much so

 

[55katest55]

thanks guys, i guess im going to pull the trigger then. apparently this thing is large, hopefully i find space for it.

since i do NOT turn up my volume loud, would i still benefit from a nicer sub? It should be more accurate and go lower, but would it do this when the volume isnt cranked?

 

[Jeff R.]

By nicer I think you mean more expensive. What you will gain is more output and possibly some more detail or tightness in your sub by having a more robust speaker and amplifier. If you want real accuracy you can opt for a sealed enclosure or if you want extension down into the low 20 hz range you can opt for a vented or ported enclosure. If you want both then you in general have to spend more money.

 

[55katest55]

ha! I meant this one as the nicer sub. It's just hard for me because i've never really heard a decent sub, so I dont really know what i'm getting. I just want to be sure that since im spending $400 this will (for whatever reason, since i know nothing about subs) destroy what i currently have!

i wanna make sure that the only time i benefit from having a good sub is not when the volume is super loud (as i listen to no where near reference levels).

 

[FirstReflection]

The eD A2-300 vs. a HTiB sub will DEFINITELY be a huge upgrade for you. Right now, there is so much bass in your movies and games that you don't even know you are missing! Outside of dialogue intelligability, I'd say that bass is the thing we notice most in movies. You should not be worried. A subwoofer upgrade in your case is going to be very noticeable and well worth the cash

With that large opening at the back of your room, you have to basically think of th length of your room as being the entire span from the front wall to wherever the actual physical wall in the ajoining room stands. In other words, your couch might be positioned more or less at the center point of your theater room, but with no physical wall at the back, it is NOT at the center point of the acoustic space!

With only one subwoofer, you are going to get standing waves, there's just no way around the physics. But you said that you really only care about your primary seat, so you can fiddle with the exact placement and use some EQ to get a pretty smooth, flat and even frequency response at just that one seat. If you notice a big "hole" in the frequency response, don't panic. Moving the sub just 6 inches or so might solve that problem! It would be best if you were to measure your bass response. If you have an iPhone, you can actually use the SPL Meter App for a really inexpensive measuring device You can download a free bass test tone "CD" here: http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

It'll take you a bit of time, but you can just play through the test tone "CD", measure each tone and graph the response to get a really good picture of the frequency response at your seat! If you notice any big dips or huge peaks in the response, you should first try moving the subwoofer. Try to find a spot where you have no huge dips in the response and as few small dips as possible. Peaks - even big ones - are not as much of a problem. You can always "trim" peaks down with EQ, but there is nothing that EQ can do for big dips, so you have to try to reduce or eliminate the dips as much as possible with the physical position of the subwoofer (and acoustic treatments, ie. bass traps )

If you don't want to go through all the time, cost and effort of measuring though, just pop in any THX DVD or Blu-ray (Disney titles and, of course, Star Wars or any other Lucas or Spielberg movie are likely candidates) and use the THX Optimizer. At the end of the "Audio" setup section, there is a bass sweep from 200Hz down to 20Hz. You can just play that tone over and over and listen to the sweep at your seat. At first, you will likely hear the sweep go louder and quieter, louder and quieter, louder and quieter as it plays. It can be pretty amazing just how much it will "warble" when you hear it play when you realize that the recorded sound is perfectly even and flat! Truly shows you just how much the room affects the sound! It'll be trial and error, but move your subwoofer around - like I said, even just 6 inches in any direction - and listen to that sweep again. In fact, even if you are going to do the full test tone "CD" and measurement, it would be a good idea to do this THX Optimizer sweep and trail and error placement first so that you find the most likely spots ahead of time!

Anywho, at low volumes, you have to expect that deep bass obviously won't have the same impact as when it's played loud. With no neighbors to worry about though, you might find that you like to "goose" the subwoofer just a little bit and play it a bit louder than the rest of your speakers Regardless, finally hearing the deep bass that you are completely missing right now with your HTiB sub is going to be very noticeable, even at low volumes!

Finally, if you are seriously considering upping your budget, the Rythmik FV12 would make an excellent, fairly inexpensive choice at $550. It's among the best choices for a relatively inexpensive sub that plays low, loud, flat and very accurately. Naturally, it's so easy to keep looking at more and more expensive subs But there are these sort of "breaking" points along the way on the cost scale, and I'd personally say that the Rythmik FV12 is one of those "breaking" points. To me, it represents a clear and obvious "step" into a new category of bass quality, with any sub that's less expensive being unable to match its performance and all of its performance-equals being slightly more expensive.

So if you're going to stretch the budget, I'd say stretch it for the Rythmik FV12 But don't feel as though you HAVE to stretch an almost 50% extra! $150 is substantially over your intended budget and there's shipping on top of that too! The FV12 is a better subwoofer than the A2-300, but the A2-300 is still very impressive! As Jeff R. said, the A2-300 isn't going to be super tight and clean for music, but for movies, it'll add a ton of impact, and I'm pretty sure that's what you're looking for

 

[55katest55]

FirstReflection, you have got to be one of the most helpful posters i have ever come across...in any forum. Thanks SO much! This is exactly what i was looking for! I'll order either today or tomorrow, they said the wait it 2-3 weeks. I cant wait to do all the stuff you suggested!

When i actually get this, expect many more questions on bass traps and risers and stuff! Seems like it would be fun to do.

Ahhhhhh i'm excited! Although i have a horrible feeling that after i get this i am going to want to upgrade again soon after---subwoofers seems to be even worse (and more expensive) than speakers in that regard.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For $440, I would take 2 of the BIC H-100 subs ($220 each, also designed by HSU Sub).

I have a PL-200 ($270 each) and I am impressed with this subwoofer for music, movies, games.

 

[GoFastr]

Wow, thanks for the suggestion, i havent even heard of the PL-200! Looks pretty interesting and right around where i want to be. Though i checked that website and it is actually a bit more expensive.

Im a bit too new at this (and not handy...at all) to do a DIY, though ive definitely considered them.

If you click on the Offer Price button on the page for the BIC PL-200 and put in $263 they will email you back with a $279 price which is the lowest they can go. I just did this last week and they shipped it the same day.

 

[55katest55]

I ordered the A2-300! Pretty excited, wish i didnt have to wait! Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[55katest55]

Any tips on calibrating my sub? I have Audyssey2EQ. Where should i put the knob? Do I have to re-run Audyssey when switching out subs?

 

[Sylar]

That was a good read...very helpful.

The eD A2-300 vs. a HTiB sub will DEFINITELY be a huge upgrade for you. Right now, there is so much bass in your movies and games that you don't even know you are missing! Outside of dialogue intelligability, I'd say that bass is the thing we notice most in movies. You should not be worried. A subwoofer upgrade in your case is going to be very noticeable and well worth the cash

I was looking to get a sub myself. Have no sub, just an Floor stander PSB T6's. Was wondering how much of a difference will a sub actually make until I read your post. How noticeable would it be for music? I am looking for heart thumping bass which I get when I visit a pub .
Would love to drive away my whole neighborhood

Finally, if you are seriously considering upping your budget, the Rythmik FV12 would make an excellent, fairly inexpensive choice at $550. It's among the best choices for a relatively inexpensive sub that plays low, loud, flat and very accurately. Naturally, it's so easy to keep looking at more and more expensive subs But there are these sort of "breaking" points along the way on the cost scale, and I'd personally say that the Rythmik FV12 is one of those "breaking" points. To me, it represents a clear and obvious "step" into a new category of bass quality, with any sub that's less expensive being unable to match its performance and all of its performance-equals being slightly more expensive.

So if you're going to stretch the budget, I'd say stretch it for the Rythmik FV12 But don't feel as though you HAVE to stretch an almost 50% extra! $150 is substantially over your intended budget and there's shipping on top of that too! The FV12 is a better subwoofer than the A2-300, but the A2-300 is still very impressive! As Jeff R. said, the A2-300 isn't going to be super tight and clean for music, but for movies, it'll add a ton of impact, and I'm pretty sure that's what you're looking for ;

How do these sound for music? This was one of my few choice, others being HSU VTF2 MK3, SVS SB12-NSD, SVS PC12-NSD DSP. I am currently unable to choose between HSU & Rythmik as I heard gud stuff with both. I will use it for both music & movies.

 

[55katest55]

Do you guys think its better to use a Y-adapter to split the RCA cable or just insert the cable by itself?

 

[55katest55]

Do subwoofers go lower in small rooms or large rooms?

 

[55katest55]

Any tips on what to set the phase to?

 

[trufnk72]

Hey 55katest55
I replaced my onkyo htib set up with an all eD setup a2-300 included. I can tell you it has been a eye opener or should I say an ear opener hear all the sounds, small details, that I was missing. The a2-300 is powerfull. You'll love it. I think I have my phase at zero BTW. I use a regular sub cable. I used audessy to calibrate at first, then I bought an analog spl meter at radio shack (it was on sale for $14) and its sounds better to me, I've got everything dialed in just about right.

 

[Jeff R.]

You should not need a splitter, a singe line input will satisfy the A2-300. Your phase will depend on placement in the room if you have it up front with you mains you will likely keep the phase at zero, but you will need to make that determination with you ears.

As far as audessey doing all your sub config, you will likely need to intervene with output levels for the sub. I only use mine to calibrate my surround speaker level and delays. I set my crossover frequencies manually to my liking and make sure I am covered in the transition from speakers into the subwoofer.

 

[trufnk72]

You should not need a splitter, a singe line input will satisfy the A2-300. Your phase will depend on placement in the room if you have it up front with you mains you will likely keep the phase at zero, but you will need to make that determination with you ears.

As far as audessey doing all your sub config, you will likely need to intervene with output levels for the sub. I only use mine to calibrate my surround speaker level and delays. I set my crossover frequencies manually to my liking and make sure I am covered in the transition from speakers into the subwoofer.

I agree with your statement!

 

[FirstReflection]

@ Sylar

If you're looking for a reasonably priced sub for music that will deliver chest-thumping bass, but also good transient response and tight, clean bass for music, get the Rythmik FV12. My one complaint with my HSU VTF-3 MK2 (same sub as the current VTF-2 MK3, but with a slightly more powerful amp than the current VTF-2 MK3) is that it doesn't hit WAY down low. The HSU is a very good sub for the money, but if you're really looking for chest-thumping impact during both music and movies, the Rythmik FV12 has it beat, IMO.

The newish SVSound SB12-NSD DSP is a nice little sub for music, but it doesn't troll the depths either. It's a sealed sub intended mostly for small rooms and music. Hits that 50Hz bass really nicely, but it won't slam you in the chest as much, nor deliver on the movie explosions in the same way.

The PC12-NSD DSP is quite a beast and capable of more raw output than the Rythmik, but it isn't quite as tight and clean - tiny bit of overhang, leading to slower transients in music. If you only wanted the sub for movies, I'd recommend the PC12-NSD DSP more highly. But since you said music is a priority, I'd recommend that you stick with the Rythmik. I think you'll absolutely love it for both music and movies

 

[FirstReflection]

@ 55katest55

Setting up your new sub isn't hard, but it involves a number of steps. Here's how I'd recommend going through it:

1) Start by temporarily unplugging all of your speakers. Connect just the subwoofer to your receiver using a single RCA cable. Plug one end of the cable into the subwoofer's "Left/Line In" plug and the other end into your receiver's "sub out" plug.

2) Set the volume knob on the subwoofer to about half way and turn the volume on your receiver down low. Set the phase knob on your subwoofer to zero for the time being. Set the cross-over knob on the subwoofer to its highest setting.

3) To quickly find the best position to place your subwoofer, you're going to "crawl for bass". Here's how:

a) push your couch way out of the way and put your subwoofer on the floor in the spot where you would normally sit. Yes, this sounds weird (and you might need a longer RCA cable ), but trust me

b) you probably have a couple of general positions where it would be most convenient to ultimately place your subwoofer. Put in a THX DVD and in the DVD's menu, go to the THX Optimizer. Go to the end of the Audio Setup section and play that 200Hz - 20Hz bass sweep. Remember that, right now, you only have the subwoofer connected - no speakers. Make sure that in your receiver's menus, you have the subwoofer set to "On"! You might also want to go into the speaker setup menu. Set the Front L/R speakers to "small" and select a cross-over frequency that is very high for the moment - 150Hz or 200Hz if it is available. That way, you should get all of that THX sweep coming through only the subwoofer output for the time being.

c) it's called "crawling for bass", but you're not going to actually crawl Instead, just crouch down so that you are at the same height as if you were seated. No go and crouch in those areas where it would be most convenient to place your sub while that THX bass sweep plays over and over. In other words, you and your subwoofer have switched positions. The sub is sitting where you would normally sit, and you are crouched down where the subwoofer will ultimately go.

d) duck walk around like this until you find a spot where the bass sweep is nice and even in volume. No giant dips or peaks. If there are no positions where the sweep sound nice and even all the way through, try to find a spot where there are no big dips. Peaks are ok - you can fix those with EQ. But EQ cannot do anything to fix big dips, so find a spot where there are no huge dips in the volume as the THX bass sweep plays.

e) Mark that spot, put your subwoofer there, push the couch back into position and take a seat!

f) Play that THX sweep again, now that you are sitting in your normal seat and the subwoofer is positioned. You should hear the same, nice, even sweep that you heard when you were crouched and the sub was sitting where you are sitting now! If not, try moving the sub just 6 inches or so in any direction. You shouldn't be too far off!

4) Throughout your "crawling for bass", it should have become obvious how far you had to turn up the volume dial on your receiver in order to get the volume level that you desired. Remember that your sub's volume dial is at about half-way for the moment. If your receiver's volume dial is a fair bit higher or lower than normal, then you can now adjust the sub-woofer's volume dial. If your receiver's volume is way lower than normal, turn the subwoofer's volume dial down. Vice versa if your receiver's volume is way higher than normal. If your receiver's volume is only off by a bit, don't worry about it. Leave the subwoofer's volume at half-way. You can fine tune the exact volume of the sub with the receiver's trim controls.

5) Now that you've found the best position for getting nice, flat, even bass from your subwoofer, it's time to plug all of your speakers back in.

6) Run Audyssey. You asked earlier if you will have to run Audyssey again. The answer is definitely yes!

7) Audyssey should do a half-decent job of setup, but it sometimes makes some weird choices. It will often set the cross-over point between the speakers and subwoofer as low as possible, so you might want to manually set the cross-over to 80Hz or a bit higher if your speakers can't play flat that low.

8) You might notice that Audyssey sets the distance on your subwoofer to something really strange. Your sub might be 8 feet away in real life, but Audyssey might set it to 20 feet away or something. The reason Audyssey does this is because it uses distance as a means of adjusting the phase. Phase refers to the co-ordinated movement of all the woofers and tweeters. For example, if you play the cross-over note at 80Hz, both your subwoofer and your speakers will be playing that note. You want for the sound of both your speakers and your subwoofer to be perfectly in phase. If they were stacked on top of eachother, they should be perfectly in phase, with the subwoofer's big cone moving in and out at exactly the same time that your speaker's woofer is moving in and out.

But your subwoofer will likely be in a slightly different position than your speakers. If it's a little bit further away from your seat than the speakers, the subwoofer needs to "fire" just a tiny bit sooner than the speakers so that the sound from the subwoofer and the sound from the speaker arrives at your seat at exactly the same time. That's what phase is all about - getting the sound to arrive at exactly the same time. And so Audyssey might set the distance of the sub to something that looks strange because it is adjusting the phase in the only way that it can - by "faking" the distance to delay the sound of the subwoofer the correct amount.

If you get one of these weird looking distances from Audyssey, you can turn the phase knob on the subwoofer to accomplish the same thing. If you like, try turning the phase knob on the receiver and running Audyssey again. You should notice the distance set by Audyssey is different depending on where you put the phase knob on the subwoofer.

At the end of setup, play that THX bass sweep again. You should hear a nice, even sweep all the way from the top to the bottom. If you notice a weird dip or peak right around the half-way point in the sweep, then you have a cross-over problem. Don't worry. Remember that phase knob? You should be able to fix that big dip or peak at the half-way point with that!

If you notice a big "hole" in the middle of the sweep though, then it means that the cross-over frequency is not set correctly. Your speakers might not actually be able to play as low as they claim or as Audyssey thinks during the measurements. Your subwoofer's cross-over knob should always be as high as it goes - your receiver is handling all of the cross-over work. If you have a "hole" in the sweep - and adjusting the phase knob does not fix it - then you will need to manually set the cross-over frequency in the receiver to a higher frequency.

The final goal is to always have a nice, smooth, even sweep where you can't really tell where the speakers hand off to the subwoofer. It should be "seemless".

In general, Audyssey does a pretty good job. But trust your ears more!

9) Once you have your speakers and subwoofer all set up, you might decide to "goose" your subwoofer just a little bit if you enjoy more rumbles and explosions and whatnot. For you, this isn't a music system, so a little extra from the subwoofer is perfectly fine You can either go into the receiver's speaker setup menu and turn up the subwoofer's "trim" a little bit, or you can just turn up the volume dial on the subwoofer itself.

10) Enjoy!