Small Sub for Music - Help

Hide sidebar Show sidebar
A

alphaiii

Audioholic General
GranteedEV said:
You misread him. Hsu designed two of the BIC subs.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know the BIC subs were designed by HSU...

He made this statement:
"Considering the fact that the PL200 & H100 are both designed by HSU, I would say they will be somewhat similar to the VTF2 MK3 & Rythmik FV12"

...which is why I thought he was implying Dr. Hsu also designed the VTF2 (which he obviously did) and Rythmik FV12...

I may have misinterpreted... but either way... I wasn't sure why he's making any sort of comparison between the BIC and Rythmik...
 
PharmD

PharmD

Enthusiast
alphaiii said:
He made this statement:
"Considering the fact that the PL200 & H100 are both designed by HSU, I would say they will be somewhat similar to the VTF2 MK3 & Rythmik FV12"

...which is why I thought he was implying Dr. Hsu also designed the VTF2 (which he obviously did) and Rythmik FV12...

I may have misinterpreted... but either way... I wasn't sure why he's making any sort of comparison between the BIC and Rythmik...
Click to expand...
Similar in terms of performance vs. price.

But having two H100 for the same price as the Emotiva Sub12 or three H100 for the same price as one VTF2 or FV12 may be a better deal.
 
A

alphaiii

Audioholic General
its phillip said:
PL-200 Review by Ricci:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1350479

Very peaky response:
Click to expand...
Here are the reviewer's comments to go along with that FR....
"Here is the basic response used for all of the subsequent tests with the crossover disengaged by using the LFE input. Again note that the response is down nearly 8db by 100hz from the 50hz peak and 10db down by 150hz. This will limit the units output and dynamic abilities in the typical crossover region to the mains as it is much less sensitive there. The unit also is tuned rather high and rolls off quickly below 35 or 40hz so there is not a lot of deep bass extension." - Ricci
 
PharmD

PharmD

Enthusiast
Ricci's Magazine or Ricci's NRC?

Everyone is an expert critic.

And I'm sure this is equivalent to Soundstage's NRC, Stereophile, Home Theater Magazine, and Sound & Vision Magazine, right?

Even if it were measured outdoors and all, how do we know everything was done correctly and reliably?

I don't think HSU would design such a poor subwoofer, even if it's only $279.:D

And you might also want to through in the part were Ricciophile wrote:

"The distortion performance was surprisingly good though, and it is a rugged unit with good overload characteristics. I wouldn’t recommend it for larger rooms or people that like to listen loudly, but a pair could probably do a decent job for most spaces."
 
Last edited:
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
So you guys think the Emotiva Sub12 @ $439 (vs. $279 on the PL200) would totally crush the PL200?:D

I was going to get the Sub12, but I thought for the family room, the PL200 would do just fine.:eek::D

I know it's nothing compared to my dual Rythmik D15SE, but c'mon man, this thing is only $279 each.:D

Throw me a bone here.:p:D
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
And I'm sure this is equivalent to Soundstage's NRC, Stereophile, Home Theater Magazine, and Sound & Vision Magazine, right?
Click to expand...
Ricci's test are more comprehensive than all of those, and only Soundstage uses an anechoic chamber, and even that anechoic chamber may not be accurate down to 20hz and below like outdoors is.

Even if it were measured outdoors and all, how do we know everything was done correctly and reliably?
Click to expand...
Because they, well, were. ;)

I don't think HSU would design such a poor subwoofer, even if it's only $279.
Click to expand...
Whether it's poor based on the frequency response alone is in the eyes of the beholder. Obv it's tuned "wrong" but that's also a tuning some might prefer. You have to consider target demographic. People who are happy with the bass if their walls shake :p - High Q subs are not uncommon at all. People think they have the most "slam".

Now I imagine that the BIC has high inductance which is why the top end rolls off, and is tuned too high which is why the bottom end is peaky. Not much you can do about high inductance... it flat out costs money to have a low inductance driver like an Acoustic Elegance TD15S or JBL W15GTI or even my Maelstrom.

A person might be able to re-tune the vent with a wider, and longer pipe. The effect on power handling of such a tuning however is unknown. If the BIC driver lacks linear excursion, then tuning lower might just cause increased distortion at higher SPLs.

Throw me a bone here.
Click to expand...
The Emotiva would not interest me either because for $100 more you could get an Epik Legend. Around this BIC's price range I'd be looking at this subwoofer:
http://www.emptek.com/es10iB5108.php

And for the price of the emotiva, I'd recommend putting together one of these - http://creativesound.ca/details.php?model=QUARTET12(TRIO12)B - with the upcoming flat pack kit. It'd probably run with many $800+ subs


...but since you wanted a bone....

....

Use Audyssey or EZ EQ :p
 
Last edited:
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
PharmD said:
Everyone is an expert critic.

And I'm sure this is equivalent to Soundstage's NRC, Stereophile, Home Theater Magazine, and Sound & Vision Magazine, right?

Even if it were measured outdoors and all, how do we know everything was done correctly and reliably?

I don't think HSU would design such a poor subwoofer, even if it's only $279.:D

And you might also want to through in the part were Ricciophile wrote:

"The distortion performance was surprisingly good though, and it is a rugged unit with good overload characteristics. I wouldn’t recommend it for larger rooms or people that like to listen loudly, but a pair could probably do a decent job for most spaces."
Click to expand...
If you want to know his testing protocol, feel free to read this:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/powered-subwoofer-testing-outline-and-procedures-overview
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
GranteedEV said:
That is not a sub I would be interested in.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with you here. Based on the FR chart the Bic is not a sub that I'd want to own or recommend.

On the other hand I have good but mixed feelings about the little Emotiva Ultra 12. I own one and I think it's a wonderful little subwoofer for most types of music or for use in an apartment where you don't want to thoroughly tick off the neighbors. However IMO it lacks sufficient extension for home theater which is why I only recommend it for music-only systems and apartments. I also took issue with a comment in a review that claimed it would "dominate" a 4000cuft room. To me the term "dominate" means reach reference levels at claimed extension without relying room gain. I'd have to see the tests to buy into that claim and until then strictly limit my recommendation to rooms under 2500cuft.

It would be interesting to see a $500 subwoofer shootout. Of course by the time you ship a legend you're looking at nearly $600.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
That isn't a terrible FR for a budget subwoofer. While it is placing too much emphasis at around its peak, 47 hz, that will mostly be EQ'd down by much of the room correction software that is on many AVRs nowadays. It isn't doing great under 30 hz, but the most important stuff is 30 and over anyway. It is a lot like the FR of the Emotiva Ultra Sub 12, and most don't regard that as a bad sub. I'd like to know where you can get a new sub that is better for under $300.
 
N

nogaro

Full Audioholic
Thanks for the lively discussion so far - great stuff! I was reading some other threads and saw several recommendations for the ported eD subs for HT, but can't seem to find much on the (sealed) A3s-250. How does this compare to the Ultra Sub 12 for music? The specs seem fairly similar.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
GranteedEV said:
The Emotiva would not interest me either because for $100 more you could get an Epik Legend. Around this BIC's price range I'd be looking at this subwoofer:
http://www.emptek.com/es10iB5108.php
Click to expand...
How can we be sure the EMP budget sub is any better than the HSU/BIC PL200 budget sub?:eek:

Budget subs are......well, cheaply made, and they don't exactly exude high quality.:D

I think most of us agree that any sub from Epik or Rythmik or SVS or > $600 subs from Internet stores will be much better quality.

But do you think the HSU STF-1 ($300), HUS STF2 ($350), or HSU VTF-1 ($400), or budget EMP sub or budget Emotiva sub will do any better than the PL-200?

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-1.html
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
GranteedEV said:
That is not a sub I would be interested in.
Click to expand...
GranteedEV said:
The Emotiva would not interest me either because for $100 more you could get an Epik Legend.
Click to expand...
sholling said:
I have to agree with you here. Based on the FR chart the Bic is not a sub that I'd want to own or recommend. It would be interesting to see a $500 subwoofer shootout. Of course by the time you ship a legend you're looking at nearly $600.
Click to expand...

Hey, some of us don't have money trees growing in our back yards.:D

Some of us just can't afford > $300 subs.:eek:

So for poor folks like me, what $300 (not a penny more) subs do you recommend?:D

P.S.............I do have a $7 million budget if that helps.:eek:
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
If I was limited to $300, I'd probably buy two dayton sub 120s :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis

Sitemap

Sitemap

Site Information

Site Information

HTML

audio forum
  • Facebook
  • Youtube
  • Twitter
  • instagram
  • rss
Top