Need help setting up my dream home theatre system

A

akshay

Audioholic Intern
Hi I am looking to build a home theater and gaming room wherein I will watch movies as well as listen to music and play on ps3 and wii. I have no budget (Sky is the limit even something like 7 mil $ would do). But want an efficient configuration that need not look good or stylish but must sound to the maximum quality achievable in the audio speakers industry.

First of all let me tell you that I have a room of about 30x30 feet and will be having around 6 recliner seats. Basically I want to build this home theater for my parents as they are as big enthusiasts as I am. So I have a few questions that I would like to post and please forgive me if this post becomes a little extra long.

First let me tell you what all I will be listening and watching in this home theater.

1) As far as music goes I will be listening to Indian Classical Music (Mostly stringed instruments and lots of vocals with lots of vibratos to put a very long story short)Like Ustad zakir hussain,Pandit Hari prasad chaurasia, Pt ravi shankar to name a few , Western classical (Beethoven, Mozart) , Jazz(Beatles , Kenny g, ) , elvis, Pavarotti, yanni, and many more people like these. An occasional hip hop like Eminem or akon and occasional rock like rasmus but very rarely. And also songs from 1940s Bollywood films.

2) For movies I will be watching films of the drama genre. So crisp dialogues are a must. An occasional action flick. And lots of Bollywood flicks which have lots of songs.

3) For games I will be playing games like GOW, Heavenly Sword, infamous ,etc of that kind i.e. mostly action games. But also games like donkey Kong and super Mario
I am not a fan for loudness so I will not crank the volume much. All I want is crisp and crystal clear sound even at low volume . And I will not be opting for a projector as I like to watch movies with lights on.(Call me eccentric if u may).

So here are my questions

1) Should I go for 7.1ch or should I go higher as the content available is max for 7.1ch?

2) Should I spend less on the subwoofer and concentrate more on the central speaker as I do not want much bass but want to hear crystal clear dialogues from movies.?

3) What are reference speakers and in what manner is it different from floor standing speakers.

4) Should I opt for a complete set of speakers or should I select components one by one if so should I stick with a same company (which ever you suggest of course) or should I go for diff components from diff companies.?

5) Should I opt for cinema speakers instead?

6) Should I go only for THX certified products?

So I would like you to recommend me some products as I am a newbie and it is easy to get lost in a sea of products where everyone claims to be the best. I also would like you to tell me each and every component of a home theater satisfying my above mentioned needs to the finest detail.

Please reply
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I think 7.1 will be fine, and there isn't even much content that out for 7.1. Nothing you listen to will take advantage of 7.1 except a few of those games.

If the sky is the limit for your system, you should get at least two subs. Not for greater output, but for more even room response and less localization. I think even mid level setups should have two subs. However, you are correct in placing importance on the center speaker.

"Reference speaker" doesn't mean much in itself. Usually, its a higher end line within a speaker manufacturer range of products, such as the Klipsch reference line. Sometimes people call speakers, or other equipment, "reference level" when they feel the speakers are so good that all other speakers should be judged by them. This is not an objective term though. Also, sometimes it can also simply mean the same speakers the audio content was recorded and mastered on.

For a sky is the limit dream system, you should stay with the same company, at least for the speakers, but not necessarily the subwoofers.

Cinema speakers will probably work for you, but they won't look very nice and are usually placed behind an acoustically transparent screen. There are some good professional cinema style consumer speakers though, that are very highly regarded. Look at the JTR triple 12 or the Seaton Catalyst for good examples of those.

THX certification is nice, but for a sky is the limit system, you can do better than restrict yourself to THX certified alone, especially since you don't intend to listen at high volumes.

I will make a few recommendations for speakers. The B&W 800 series is very highly regarded as some of the best speakers you can buy, regardless of price. Specifically the 802 and 800d. Supposedly these are extremely neutral speakers that do nothing wrong. A set of speakers I would personally look into if money were no object would be the JBL Everest series, the DD66000. That looks like a absolutely killer system. Something else I would be interested in would be the Klipsch Palladium series, which promises to sound great and they look drop dead gorgeous. You will have a lot of options for great sound when money isn't a limiting factor, these are just a few.

You will need an amplifier and pre-amp. For amplifiers, there are lots of good choices, to me they are all the same though. You will just want something powerful enough to drive whatever speakers you choose, so the speaker should be partly the determining factor when choosing the amplifier. Many high end amps can handle the above mentioned speakers. Some reputable brands are Classe, Krell, McIntosh, and NAT, just to name a few. Many of these are over-priced, but if money is not a factor, I would buy for looks alone once they have met the spec criteria for powering the speakers. I would probably go with a stack of monoblocks to power heavy duty speakers like the above mentioned Everests or 800d speakers.

For a pre-amp, I would want something that has Audyssey MultuEQ XT32, for the very best in room correction EQing. The only two I know of that have that are are Onkyo PR-SC5508 and Integra DHC-80.2.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
You forgot to ask probably the most important questions:
1) How to find a good local installer, since doing all DIY is would be crazy, the amount of knowledge you'd need to install, connect, program the remote(s), tune audio and video and most likely install room treatments.
On this "dream" budget - getting a pro to do it for you is IMO a must.

Now, then this pro comes with his "battle plan" you are more than welcome to ask us if it makes sense to us.
One more company I wont hesitate to call is Keith Yates
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I will add, for a room that size, if you aren't looking at a front projection setup you really aren't going to have much of an experience.

70" certainly isn't it, but Panasonic does have a good looking 103" and 150" plasma, but I would recommend a dual setup with a 70" Sharp LCD with a 150" electric screen and proper lighting in the room.

The room itself is going to be a significant, and frankly a huge investment to ensuring a quality system. Sound soak on the walls to keep reflections to a minimum is a starting point. Zoned lighting with directional control is going to matter a great deal as well.

For some reason people equate front projection with viewing in the dark, which is not at all necessary with proper room design and lighting control. Lighting control does not mean 'turn lights out' - it means control of the amount of light in different areas of the room with the full ability to do so.

Please refer to: http://www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html for an example.

I use both a 52" LCD and a 106" projection setup in my home and would strongly recommend it.

For speakers, you have some good examples above. I would say that as good as the B&W speakers sound, the Meridian DSP8000 speakers are the best I've ever heard.
http://www.meridian-audio.com/the-collection/loudspeakers/dsp8000-digital-active-loudspeaker.aspx

I would not touch Integra (Onkyo) or Onkyo for receivers as I think they have a long way to go in engineering capability. Instead, I would stick with a long line of different companies who really know their stuff.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I should also recommend some subwoofers. For something that looks great and has very high performance, check out the FunkyWaves 18.0M. That subs uses what many consider to be the finest subwoofer driver made, the TC Sounds LMS5400 Ultra. It is available in many gorgeous finishes and now comes with a 2400 watt DSP amplifier. Another recommendation would be the JL Audio Gotham g213. It looks very nice, has tremendous performance, and has lots of onboard features. I don't quite think it will reach as low as the funkywaves sub, but you are probably never going to need that sort of low frequency extension. It is considerably more expensive though. I would definitely get two of either, even two very good subs will sound better than one great sub. For the ultimate in performance, get four funkywaves subs. You will need a bunch of 20 amp circuits for that, but hey, the sky is the limit. The bass will be stunning no matter where you are in the room.

Which brings to mind another facet of your system: the room. You can get the finest audio system, but it will be a total waste if the room is an acoustic nightmare. This brings us to room treatments. You will want to hire a professional to make the room sound good while making sure it still looks good too. This is very important to getting a great sound but is too often overlooked. There is no point in getting a 100k sound system if the room is awful.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I don't know if a dream home theater and a dream music listening room can be the same. Even though great speakers are great speakers, the setup for these two would fundamentally be different.

It starts with the room.

A home theater IMO should have three dynamic, horn type sealed speakers mounted behind an acoustically transparent screen. Rectangular rooms are most understood in terms of acoustic research. You want a room that has a dead silent noise floor. You want around eight 15" or 18" high excursion sealed subs (CSS SDX15mk2, TC Sounds LMS-5400 or Re XXX ) throughout, in order to reach deep and load every seat the same. They will need a ton of power to equalize properly. I'm talking, like four 20A 120V lines just for the subs. :eek: - and we want a dedicated well ventilated closet area that can house amps. This lets us use ultra high power amps with cooling fans.

Using high output sealed speakers is normally a good idea. We can set them to "large" on our reciever and have them blend very well with subwoofers, without using "unreliable" crossovers. Getting that blend to work right is a long process but well worth it.

A music listening room normally has three excellent, identical full range speakers, well away from any walls (at least 4 to 6 feet). Because the center is well away from the wall, you can't hide it behind a screen. These speakers generally have wider dispersion than horn speakers - horns by nature beam sound while acoustically small sources, often with rear radiation, send sound in specific directions. Obviously this is a problematic conundrum!

The only way to do both at the same time would be to have a room behind a room. That is, a very long room, where the first third is cut off by a HUGE acoustically transparent screen - covering the entire area with no walls.

The best modern custom installers actually have CAD programs for designing entire rooms. This is where this needs to start. You have to start from the ground up (literally, you don't want ground loops :eek:)

Only once you've got a perfect listening room in place should you start looking at speakers. The listening room should be sufficiently live, with a RT60 near 500ms but with plenty of diffusion but a lot of bass trapping.

I second the suggestion to call high end pros like Keith Yates. These types of people design recording studios for a living.

That brings us to speakers. You want speakers that have perfect measured off axis response. If the side wall, floor, or ceiling reflections are not sufficiently similar to the on axis response (and this includes many high end speakers - B&Ws, Wilsons etc) then reflections become a source of smear and coloration. You might think to attenuate that with "speaker treatments" - absorption panels - but these often have a negative effect on the experience of sound . A few speakers I would be looking at would be


TAD Reference One
kGenelec 8260A
Revel Ultima Salon 2
Salk Soundscape 12
Gedlee Summa
JBL DD66000 Everest II
Seaton Catalyst

For processors, I would be looking at the Denon AVP-A1HDCI most likely. Not the absolute most modern unit in terms of features, but it's very top end and very customizable.

For amps, I would prefer active loudspeakers from the start. Otherwise I would be looking at Marantz 9S2 amps :D

1) Should I go for 7.1ch or should I go higher as the content available is max for 7.1ch?
7 channels is all you need - QUALITY not QUANTITY. For subs though, you want many, because of how they interact with the room, and so that you can get bass down to 5hz :eek:

2) Should I spend less on the subwoofer and concentrate more on the central speaker as I do not want much bass but want to hear crystal clear dialogues from movies.?
Good Bass and Crystal Clear dialogue are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. Clean, low distortion bass from multiple sources, setup properly, will never be problematic. You want all the headroom in the world, and with bass, headroom is a problem. if you don`t have headroom you are not reproducing the entirety of the soundtrack. What you think bass is, is not what real bass is. Don't be afraid of bass - properly setup bass is absolutely the way to go - although yes, properly setup main speakers are that much more important. What many people find offensive with bass is

1) Distortion because bass is difficult to reproduce
2) Obnoxiously imbalanced frequency response

If you can get flat frequency response IN room down to 20hz with no peaks or valleys, with the low distortion afforded by multiple 18-in woofers you'll find the sound is very much NOT like "bass effects" and a lot more tactile, a lot less audible, and music sounds more organic. It will never overpower the rest of the system, nor should the rest of the system overpower your subs - it should be a system which works in synergy - speakers and subs should blend seamlessly such that you don't even realize you have subs.

At the end of the day bass is about MEASURING your performance IN-ROOM.

3) What are reference speakers and in what manner is it different from floor standing speakers.
Floor standing speakers stand on the floor.

Reference speakers are a myth. On paper it`s a speaker that is absolutely perfect in every aspect - and does absolutely nothing wrong to the signal. Speaker design on the other hand is a compromise by nature. If we're talking about refernece, then we need to consider recordings. Recordings simply don't capture the information the same way one would hear it at the live event. The closest a stereo or surround speaker system can do is to give the ::illusion:: of being there - to make you believe it is real instruments and voices in front of you, or the real ambience of the venue inside your room.

With that said, the best speakers

Are timbrally accurate, have stable image with a wide, tall, deep soundstage, and extract all the details in a recording, including dynamic content (quiet details, and the loudest details, should all be lifelike).

4) Should I opt for a complete set of speakers or should I select components one by one if so should I stick with a same company (which ever you suggest of course) or should I go for diff components from diff companies.?
Every piece should be individually selected.

5) Should I opt for cinema speakers instead?
Professional Cinema speakers? Some are great, but the compromise here is that they sometimes trade maximum absolute fidelity for output and dialogue intelligibility. It's only natural - Cinemas are HUGE! Home Theaters need not be as loud - so you can get away with speakers made for homes and compromise loudness for other factors, of which there are many. And it's easy to get dialogue intelligibility as you are near field.

6) Should I go only for THX certified products?
Absolutely not. THX Certification is not an indicator of the highest end products. It just means a company paid THX to test its product, and that product passed the THX tests. Many other, MUCH finer products simply don't bother with THX certification.

Audition, Audition, AUDITION when it comes to speakers. The list of speakers I gave you earlier is IMO a world class place to start. Don't be confused by the sometimes vastly different price points - sometimes these speakers will sound more similar than not - this is a good thing - because real life sounds shouldn't sound different depending on the speaker reproducing them.

When it comes to electronics, you need measurements and to not get too hung up on them. They are not overly relevant. - ultimately it's all about clean measurements, seating position, speaker position, room acoustics, and speaker acoustics. NO magic at play.
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
.... I have no budget (Sky is the limit even something like 7 mil $ would do). But want an efficient configuration that need not look good or stylish but must sound to the maximum quality achievable in the audio speakers industry.

....

Please reply
Since you brought this up;) I would look through this design group's offers:
http://www.erskine-group.com/
 
DD66000

DD66000

Senior Audioholic
Since you say the sky is the limit, then find a local JBL Synthesis dealer.
Then tell him you want a Synthesis Everest system.

I auditioned the Everest II last year while I was in Japan. Without a doubt the best speakers I have ever heard.

As they are horn loaded, they will have all the dynamics one could want for HT. And for music, MORE detail, and subtlety than you could ever imagine. They will literally make the hair on your neck stand up.

As Greg Timbers (JBL´s chief systems engineer) has said, listen to the Everest II and you will KNOW the difference between hifi and REAL music.

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/ProductDetails.aspx?prdid=7

 
A

akshay

Audioholic Intern
Thank you all for all your suggestions if any more keep them coming

Wow Thank you all for the responses you have given me. I said in my post that there is a sea of products and really you people have given me directions to explore depths and horizons that I would never have thought. Thank you all

But this only leads me to further confusion as for every speaker recommended by everyone, I have checked reviews on the internet (I know that this is far away from enough) and each one is good enough to give any other a run for its money. I will audition these speakers one by one. Hell its going to take a lot of time but hey, this is my dream system and I don’t care how much time it takes I want it to be the best ,Not to show off to anyone (I hate showing off ) but for my personal and family’s satisfaction as they are the people that are more important to me than anyone else.

First of all @shadyj
Thank you for your wonderful recommendations. I am thoroughly impressed with JTR and Seaton catalyst. Even with the b&w , klipsch and JBL Everest , truly awesome speakers. And a special thanks on the recommendation about the sub. Am seriously considering the funky waves one .But am really skeptical about putting 4 in one room. But its seriously worth a consideration although I was planning for 2 subs.

Next @BoredSysAdmin
I am indeed looking for a pro to set it up. But first I need to do a thorough study. Since this is my system I want it to have the best equipment .I do agree that room acoustics design has 50% importance in home theater building. But this room is still in its architectural phase. So the acoustics can be managed. And thanks for the reference of Keith yates . I want some pro who actually knows something to do the job for me.I also want to have sufficient knowledge of the equipment so that when I discuss this with a pro, I must not remain in the dark about choices and neither should I be cheated in any way.

@bmxtrix
I am really skeptical about having a large display as I feel that the pixels/granules/particles would appear scattered and would not look good. About 152 inch Panasonic plasma display I do not know if they sell it and even so it has a res of 4096x2160 4x of full HD .I feel it would seem like watching a .3gp mobile clip on an HDTV where in such a situation no matter what, results are far less than satisfactory. But you got point about light control . Worthy of consideration.

@acudeftechguy
Definitely if performance is unparalleled according to the conditions I put, then will spend.

@granteedev
I know you cannot have the best of everything in one single system that is why I am looking for a system which has balance and the least possible compromise. And thanks for your insights, recommendations, and answering my questions so comprehensively.

@dd66000
I am considering that one definitely.

Which brings me to a new set of questions that have arised (Please forgive me for asking so many of them)

1) I was thinking of buying an Yamaha RX A 3000 a/v receiver but now it seems it won’t be enough can you suggest any other perhaps or is this one good enough?

2) I could not find any a/v receiver which can connect 4 subs can any one tell me how the connections will be.? Max found to be 11.2 ch

3) I was thinking of something else as well If I could use a pc as my video processor connected directly to the projector or tv and sound card connection goes to a/v receiver or preamp .When I say pc I mean a full fledged powerhouse running to max capabilities i.e 8gb graphcs card,sound card,12gb ram and latest processor. What do you think of this idea.? This is an alienware system and available for arnd 8800$ approx.

4) Can I use the floor speakers as rear speakers as well ? will it be a good idea or will it affect the quality of sound?

5) I need some recommendations regarding surround speakers and bookshelf speakers as well
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Since you say the sky is the limit, then find a local JBL Synthesis dealer.
Then tell him you want a Synthesis Everest system.

I auditioned the Everest II last year while I was in Japan. Without a doubt the best speakers I have ever heard.

As they are horn loaded, they will have all the dynamics one could want for HT. And for music, MORE detail, and subtlety than you could ever imagine. They will literally make the hair on your neck stand up.

As Greg Timbers (JBL´s chief systems engineer) has said, listen to the Everest II and you will KNOW the difference between hifi and REAL music.

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/ProductDetails.aspx?prdid=7

Does JBL make a subwoofer to go along with that Everest?:D

I know Revel has that 18" beast subwoofer, but does JBL have one to match the aesthetics of the Everest 2?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If you want a big tower speaker that has been professionally reviewed by 6 different magazines/publications, and named Product of The Year by Stereophile, Speaker of The Year by Soundstage, has outstanding performance and outstanding measurements in the lab to back it up, also give the Revel Salon2 speakers an audition.

Get 7 of the Salon2s for 7.1 system.

JBL (Everest) & Revel (Salon) are owned by Parent Company Harmon International.
 
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DD66000

DD66000

Senior Audioholic
Does JBL make a subwoofer to go along with that Everest?:D

I know Revel has that 18" beast subwoofer, but does JBL have one to match the aesthetics of the Everest 2?
When you buy a Synthesis system, EVERYTHING is included, all speakers, processors, a multitude of amps, subs, pro calibration, total installation. The subs do not look anything like the Everest, but they would be hidden in the installation.


1) I was thinking of buying an Yamaha RX A 3000 a/v receiver but now it seems it won’t be enough can you suggest any other perhaps or is this one good enough?
Forget run of the mill electronics, let a Synthesis dealer give you the best system money can buy. IMO
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The B&W 800 series is very highly regarded as some of the best speakers you can buy, regardless of price.
Regarded by whom?

Stereophile?

Soundstage?

Home Theater Magazine?

Sound & Vision Magazine?

Audioholics Review?

Check out the Stereophile review of the 800 DIAMOND:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/bampw-800-diamond-loudspeaker-measurements





On Axis FR from 50Hz-20kHz looks like +6dB/-3dB.

60 degrees Off Axis FR @ 10kHz looks like -13dB.

Sure there's no cabinet resonance, but cabinet resonance does not tell you how accurate the speaker is. Frequency responses tell you how accurate they speaker is.

Overall, the B&W 800 Diamond's measured performance suggests that its balance has been optimized by listening; the various small departures from neutrality tend to balance one another. What surprised me was how similar its behavior in the test lab was to B&W's 802D, which Kal Rubinson reviewed in December 2005 (see www.stereophile.com/content/bw-802d-loudspeaker-measurements). The sonic differences KR describes lie in the details.—John Atkinson

I would like to know everyone's impression of this review.

We know they can't trash the speakers review due to advertisement, etc.

It seemed very, very NEGATIVE overall, does it not?



We know the Salon2s have been named Speaker of the Year by Stereophile & Soundstage.

We know the KEF 207/2s have been named Speaker of the Year by Stereophile & Sound & Vision Magazine.

There are other speakers from other companies that have been named "Speaker of the Year" by various professional publications.

But why hasn't the B&W 800D, 801D, 802D, 803D been named Speaker of the Year by ANYONE?

Perhaps the reason is because their speaker measurements have not been too impressive?

I would like to know more.:D
 
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bread29

bread29

Junior Audioholic
I'm going to save this thread for the day when I become insanely wealthy...Thanks to everyone for the recommendations!:D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If I had that Kipnis system, I'd be staring at the amps and speakers all the time instead of the movie.:D
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
@bmxtrix
I am really skeptical about having a large display as I feel that the pixels/granules/particles would appear scattered and would not look good. About 152 inch Panasonic plasma display I do not know if they sell it and even so it has a res of 4096x2160 4x of full HD .I feel it would seem like watching a .3gp mobile clip on an HDTV where in such a situation no matter what, results are far less than satisfactory. But you got point about light control . Worthy of consideration.
You don't understand how the human eye handles video resolution and how it correlates to viewing distance. For example, the movie Tron, released in theaters, was shot at 1920x1080 resolution, then cropped DOWN for 2.35:1 aspect ratio, then scaled up to be presented in theaters.

Not exactly something people complained about.

The reason? Because a good display, combined with a good source, will look good from a proper viewing distance.

The distance?

1.5x your screen width is your viewing distance. You said you have a room 30' deep, with seating at, let's say, 20', then you should have a screen that is about 12' wide. That's a very large screen, but with 1080p resolution, you will have absolutely NO ability to tell the difference between a 150" screen from 20', and a a 50" screen from 20'. Your eyes are physically incapable of resolving more resolution from that distance. This is just a fact of how the human eye works. It is not at all like your example because you are actually starting with an extremely low resolution source (100kbs web stream) and trying to equate that to a 30mbs Blu-ray encode, without the proper perspective of viewing distance & screen size.

Trust me, unless you hate what a movie theater looks like, you will be beyond satisfied. Ask any owner of front projectors what they are like.

Of course, there are also higher resolution front projection systems which can deliver screens far larger in size if you would prefer. Christie Digital is a good example of this. As is Digital Projection.

1) I was thinking of buying an Yamaha RX A 3000 a/v receiver but now it seems it won’t be enough can you suggest any other perhaps or is this one good enough?
I would be looking at a preamp with balanced audio outputs or a digital pathway directly to an active speaker. The Yamaha is a very good product from Best Buy, and for many consumers, but it is not truly high end.

2) I could not find any a/v receiver which can connect 4 subs can any one tell me how the connections will be.? Max found to be 11.2 ch
You would use an active audio splitter (distribution amplifier), preferably balanced, and wire it to XLR connectors directly to the subwoofers.

3) I was thinking of something else as well If I could use a pc as my video processor connected directly to the projector or tv and sound card connection goes to a/v receiver or preamp .When I say pc I mean a full fledged powerhouse running to max capabilities i.e 8gb graphcs card,sound card,12gb ram and latest processor. What do you think of this idea.? This is an alienware system and available for arnd 8800$ approx.
A good HTPC is great, but external video processing from a company like DVDO is better.

It's worth noting that it's important to get all the noisy gear out of the room.

4) Can I use the floor speakers as rear speakers as well ? will it be a good idea or will it affect the quality of sound?
Yes, absolutely.
 
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