Samsung, Netflix, Apple and entropy

[fredct]

It's a law of thermodynamics that systems get more disordered over time. It seems that this is the case when it comes to home electronics. Standards, acronyms, cables, firmware all seem to multiply madly so that a user encountering a problem needs to have a degree in EE + the patience of a monk to properly trouble shoot. Now to my issue!

I use Netflix streaming on IPad and PC (over wifi). No problems with either audio or sound.

I try to use Netflix on Samsung Blue-Ray player BD-C6900 connected via HDMI to Samsung AV receiver HW-C770S. Blue-Ray player is connected to home network via wi-fi. BR player audio output setting is PCM and I see that the receiver accepts the incoming audio as DOLBY (the display lights up accordingly with all 7 channels on and the Dolby logo on).

Home network was upgraded with a long range WIFI server.

Now to the issue at hand: BR player goes to Netflix within a few seconds and buffers any movie in a matter of 10 seconds or so. Video plays beautifully with no interruption. Audio cuts out every 5-10 seconds for 5-10 seconds.

When I look at the receiver, I see that the audio input vanishes: the Dolby logo goes off and only the HDMI input light stays on. After a few seconds, the Dolby light goes back on and sound is totally fine (and high quality too) until it cuts off again.

When I go to Pandora where there is presumably no or very limited video, the diagnostic is the same: the audio cuts off in the same way at about the same frequency...The AV display goes blank when the sound goes off.

I am not sure where to go with this problem. I assume that the Netflix stream for IPad is not the same as Netflix stream for BR player. Can I compromise video quality to make room for uninterrupted audio? I would think that audio stream is a small part of video stream.

In other words, how can I troubleshoot this? There are so many parameters I am not sure where to start. I know that I can plug IPad into Receiver using the new HDMI output cable but is that a good idea? Should I go with Apple TV instead? Is the BR player defective? How could I tell?

Note that I tried in the morning and at night, thinking that the issue may be related to "global" bandwidth. Saw a difference on "Mr. Bean" but not on "2012" so not a robust option + it needs to work at night.

 

[j_garcia]

My guess would be the iPad is able to buffer better, and it is also not trying to decode the audio stream the same way since it is limited to one option. Plenty of devices stream yes, but as you have found, not all do it equally. I am not a fan of the Netflix app on my Panasonic player compared to the one that is on the PS3 which is also not as good as actually logging in on a computer. Streaming players and TVs lack the workhorse power of a true computer, so you can't expect them to do it as well. For audio, I am pretty sure the only device that actually streams 5.1 is the PS3. All other devices are stereo only, so what you are most likely seeing on the audio decoding is Dolby Prologic decoding of a stereo signal, and even that stereo signal is "stuttering" while buffering to your player. I experience occasional video pauses on my Panasonic even via wired with certain content but not others simply because some shows/movies have much more data to be transmitted.

 

[fredct]

Thanks.

But when connected through HDMI cable, what is doing the decoding? The BR player or the receiver? Could I bypass the issue by using optical cable for example?

Since video quality is so high, I suspect an actual malfunction as opposed to a bad streaming which would degrade audio and video equally. How to test? These devices give very limited feedback compared to a PC.

 

[MDS]

But when connected through HDMI cable, what is doing the decoding? The BR player or the receiver? Could I bypass the issue by using optical cable for example?

You said the audio output was set to PCM so the player is doing the decoding. If you want the receiver to do the decoding, set it to 'bitstream' or 'raw' (depending on which term your player uses).

 

[fredct]

I have 2 bitstream options on BR player + PCM. One did the same thing but I did not try the other one. Let me do the test more carefully and report back.

 

[PENG]

I have 2 bitstream options on BR player + PCM. One did the same thing but I did not try the other one. Let me do the test more carefully and report back.

As MDS said if you selected PCM the player was decoding. If you select bit stream, even if you have two options, the AVR would do the decoding. I also think j Garcia was right, with Netflix, only the PS3 streams 5.1 on some movies.

If you really know the 3rd law you must be a ME but you probably do need the help of EEs.

 

[fredct]

To Peng: the third law is about absolute zero and the impossibility to reach it. Entropy is in the 2nd law!

To others: Ok I tried both bitstream options, NO CHANGE. I did not connect the optical cable so signals are going through HDMI.

I pulled out the HDMI cable and put in back in at the receiver and BR. The amount of chopping was noticeably reduced. Each event last 4-5 seconds but the space between them was like 1 minute or so, even more in some cases. The HDMI is a 3 feet monoprice unit, 6 months old. Could a cable go bad? and interfere with the handshake? Puzzled... Would disconnecting the HDMI and running audio through analog cables be a valid test?

 

[PENG]

To Peng: the third law is about absolute zero and the impossibility to reach it. Entropy is in the 2nd law!

Of course you said entropy, that was a test you passed.

Do Rogers & Mayhew (well may be I remember wrong, it was so long ago) ring the bell?

 

[fredct]

To Peng. Atkins is the best author for thermodynamics.

Update: the BR player plays DVD without any sound cutting. Could a bad cable only affect streaming? Does not sound logical. Receiver itself works flawlessly with satellite feed.

 

[PENG]

To Peng. Atkins is the best author for thermodynamics.

I don't know about that one but R&M's was one of the colleges & universities textbook way back. To me the 2nd law of Thermodynamic is a bit like Fourier on the EE side, very powerful and useful but the concept is not easy to understand.

Update: the BR player plays DVD without any sound cutting. Could a bad cable only affect streaming? Does not sound logical. Receiver itself works flawlessly with satellite feed.

That's possible but you must have another cable to try right? If your video is good then I don't think wifi is the problem but it won't hurt to try hard wiring it just to be sure. You may also try connecting the HDMI from the BDP directly to the TV in case it may be a handshaking issue between your BDP and your AVR.

My Samsung P2550 cannot stream Netflix in Canada so my only option is with PS3 and it has been working flawlessly both video and audio so I think Netflix is not the problem.

 

[j_garcia]

Does this player have the latest firmware installed?

 

[fredct]

Problem solved, thanks to all

I first tested the BR player audio by plugging my headset in the back. Perfect sound. I then tested the optical output through the RV. Again, perfect sound. Unfortunately, you can't use the optical output and the HDMI output at the same time (at least on my system).
I was ready to create a separate "channel" on RV that would be Netflix running from components video feed and individual speaker outputs from BR.
As I got ready to do all that, I found a spare HDMI cable. I swapped it with old one and bingo! problem resolved.
Conclusion: even though we are dealing with digital signals with well defined voltage thresholds, a cable can fail intermittently as a function of input feed (DVD OK, Netflix and Pandora NOT OK). Can't quick square it but it will have to do for now.
Bottom line: there are many many elements to an good internet feed. Check every element you can including the smallest ones before trashing your hardware!
Thanks to all.

P.S. A note about firmware. All new Samsung products have firmware that can be upgraded over time. On TV and RV, this is done through a USB port. On the new WIFI BR, this is done through the network and is automated.