Vinyl record players

[PENG]

I recently replaced my entry level OM-5E with the Red and the improvement is noticeable. It is hard to do A/B comparisons though, let alone any sort of BT. Depending on the recording now I can even listen to classical with the P362 without getting tired too soon. So once again it proves that at least I can hear differences between cartridges, speakers and some media players but not mid range amps and cables.

Now I have a question, are the red and blue cartridges the same except for the colors and only the stylus are different? Browsing the net turned out mostly yes answers but not sure of their source. I have not tried email Ortofon, may be I should. The stylus costs almost as much as the whole cartridge but I hate to have to do another complete setup if I can just replace the stylus.

More importantly, if anyone tried both please share your experience on the SQ difference, if audible.

 

[TLS Guy]

I recently replaced my entry level OM-5E with the Red and the improvement is noticeable. It is hard to do A/B comparisons though, let alone any sort of BT. Depending on the recording now I can even listen to classical with the P362 without getting tired too soon. So once again it proves that at least I can hear differences between cartridges, speakers and some media players but not mid range amps and cables.

Now I have a question, are the red and blue cartridges the same except for the colors and only the stylus are different? Browsing the net turned out mostly yes answers but not sure of their source. I have not tried email Ortofon, may be I should. The stylus costs almost as much as the whole cartridge but I hate to have to do another complete setup if I can just replace the stylus.

More importantly, if anyone tried both please share your experience on the SQ difference, if audible.

I don't believe the styli are interchangeable.

All cartridges have a signature, just like microphones and speakers.

Cheap cartridges are generally a mistake. I don't think you need a $10,000 fancy moving coil. However cartridges up the the $500 to $700 range tend to pay big dividends, if you pick them right.

To be honest, and as I have stated before, I'm not fond of the lower end Ortofon cartridges.

One of the best all round cartridges from Ortofon is the Black.

If you want a good budget cartridge it is Audio Technica all the way, and this one in particular.

Since the are differences between cartridges, quite a few like myself have more than one turntable.

I have always had a regard for the Decca variable reluctance cartridges. There response and detail are superb, but they fall down in the highly modulated passages. So you have to choose your program material to play with them. With the right disc they are glorious.

May favorite cartridge is all time is the Shure V15 xmr. Very neutral with a good and accurate bass response, and unmatched trackability.

I made sure I bought enough cartridges and above all styli to see me through.

They come up on eBay occasionally, and sometimes an unopened one still appears.

They are worth every last cent, and worth bidding on, they usually go for close to $1000 or so now.

 

[3db]

My Project Xpression II came with an Ortofon SM-10 cartidge. I was looking to upgrade the stylus to that of an SM-20 or 30 which will fit the SM-10 cartridge but the cost of the SM-20 was that of an Ortofon 2m Red. The only difference between the SM-10, 20, 30, or 40 is the stylus and I know for a fact that they are interchangeable.

I did buy the 2M-Red and I too noticed some differences in the positive. I noticed less rumble pick-up and the pos and ticks were less pronounced and buried deeper into the music if you know what I mean. I think the stlyus of the Blue and Red are interchangeable but I'm not sure of the Bronze or the Black.

I created a side by side spread sheet and I notice that the channel sepration and frequency responses are different. Whether that is because of the cartridge or the stlus itself, I'm not sure.

 

[PENG]

My Project Xpression II came with an Ortofon SM-10 cartidge. I was looking to upgrade the stylus to that of an SM-20 or 30 which will fit the SM-10 cartridge but the cost of the SM-20 was that of an Ortofon 2m Red. The only difference between the SM-10, 20, 30, or 40 is the stylus and I know for a fact that they are interchangeable.

I did buy the 2M-Red and I too noticed some differences in the positive. I noticed less rumble pick-up and the pos and ticks were less pronounced and buried deeper into the music if you know what I mean. I think the stlyus of the Blue and Red are interchangeable but I'm not sure of the Bronze or the Black.

I created a side by side spread sheet and I notice that the channel sepration and frequency responses are different. Whether that is because of the cartridge or the stlus itself, I'm not sure.

Thank you both for the feedback. Based on TLSG's comment I probably should eventually consider the 2M-Black but for $700 (with taxes) I can't do it for at least a year (I think, but then X'mas is coming..) and there is no point going downward (price wise) to the entry level Audio Technica he mentioned.

If and when you have a chance listening to the bronze or black please let me know what you think of them.

 

[PENG]

I figured out a pretty good way to adjust the vertical angle but find it almost impossible to tell if I adjusted the azimuth perfectly. I read about using a small mirror but then it would be just a visual thing that is subjective. I am thinking of something that is measurable, like using a protractor (not pratical in this case) so I know if it is exactly perpendicular or is at an negligible angle. Sound quality does not seem be suffering right now, but for engineers (the good ones anyway), there must be supporting hard numbers or graphs or they won't find true happiness.

 

[3db]

I figured out a pretty good way to adjust the vertical angle but find it almost impossible to tell if I adjusted the azimuth perfectly. I read about using a small mirror but then it would be just a visual thing that is subjective. I am thinking of something that is measurable, like using a protractor (not pratical in this case) so I know if it is exactly perpendicular or is at an negligible angle. Sound quality does not seem be suffering right now, but for engineers (the good ones anyway), there must be supporting hard numbers or graphs or they won't find true happiness.

yeah..us engineers have a nervous tick about specs.

Try these;

http://www.styli.co.nz/protractor.pdf

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml

 

[valvesnvinylfan]

Unfortunately good devices for measuring azimuth are few and far between, but I purchased a Fosgate Fozgometer a while back and I think it's a great way to know whether your azimuth is dialed, or of course tweak it 'til it is:

http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/fozgometer.html

Needless to say, I've found it's the easiest way yet to dial in Azimuth, and if you have an audio buddy or two willing to go in on one with you, the $250 price tag won't seem so steep.

 

[TLS Guy]

yeah..us engineers have a nervous tick about specs.

Try these;

http://www.styli.co.nz/protractor.pdf

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml

Actually a mirror is quite accurate. However my favorite device I use was common many years ago and I have had it since I was a child. It is a small and light circular spirit level with a round bubble and bulls eye. You place it on the head shell. Simple and works every time. I have not seen anything like it for years.

 

[ratso]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=turntable+bubble+level

 

[TLS Guy]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=turntable+bubble+level

That is the idea, but that one looks heavy. Mine is very lightweight plastic. It needs to b very light to place on the head shell

 

[ratso]

yeah sorry, can't ever pass up an opportunity to use lmgtfy. i found a couple on ebay, google sme 3009 headshell level. (or just tonearm spirit level will give you a bunch too).

 

[audiofox]

Actually a mirror is quite accurate. However my favorite device I use was common many years ago and I have had it since I was a child. It is a small and light circular spirit level with a round bubble and bulls eye. You place it on the head shell. Simple and works every time. I have not seen anything like it for years.

How about this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tonearm-spirit-level-set-up-VTA-azimuth-SME-/260798637920?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D250809963291%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D684864298651532533

 

[TLS Guy]

How about this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tonearm-spirit-level-set-up-VTA-azimuth-SME-/260798637920?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D250809963291%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D684864298651532533

That is virtually identical to what I use.