New Denon AVRs

[kurtkrum]

My current AVR is a Yamaha RX-V861. I need something with more than two HDMI inputs on the back so I am shopping for a new amp. I do 50% music and 50% movies.

I really covet the Denon AVR-3312CI, but I am short on cash and considering the two models below it, which are the AVR-2312CI and the AVR-2112CI.

The differences I have seen with specs on the Denon website is that the 3312 has .05 THD vs. the other two that have .08 THD. My Yamaha has .06 THD. Here's a big question for the audioholics: Can an average guy like me hear the difference on these amps? Am I selling myself short if I don't lay out the cash for the 3312 and instead go with the 2112?

The next big difference is the power output. My current amp makes 105 watts per channel. The low priced Denon only makes 90 per channel. But my room isn't that big and I never use the full amount of power from my current amp. Next question: Am I going to notice a big difference and be disappointed if I only have 90 watts?

Last question: Two of the Denon amps are 7.2 surround vs 7.1. I did some research and I can't find any evidence that there is media out there that truly uses the 7.2 format. Also I always thought that bass was omnidirectional so I don't think this is a big deal. Am I right or wrong?

If there is anything else I am missing in this comparison please let me know if I'm not seeing the big picture.

Spending $599 on a new receiver is a lot easier than spending $1000 right now. I also saw the 2112CI on amazon for $529...which is nice...

Thanks in advance! I have been lurking on this site for about 3 years and have learned so much!

 

[techboo]

cool, i have the same questions. i was looking at the onkyo tx-nr609 and 709, but they seem to have a lot of issues. the 609 keeps getting errors during firmware updates and people actually have to get a replacement unit... wow! plus they don't have airplay.

i was really looking at the 2312, but then really looked at the 2112 and thought that my be all i need. i don't need 2 subs. but is the 2112 lacking feature that the 2312 has? i realize less hdmi etc. connections, but any feature left off the 2112 that the 2312 has that would really be worth the extra costs?

 

[techboo]

does anyone know if this website is run by the same people as avsforums.com? the layout is almost exactly the same.

 

[kurtkrum]

I don't believe it's the same folks as the AV forums - the folks here are very technical, so I have been lurking in the shadows trying to learn as much as I can.

If you look at the photo of the back of the Denon AVR-2112CI you will see that the power cable is permanently attached. If you look at the 2312 or the 3312 there is a receptacle into which a power cable plugs in. I wonder why they did this. Damaging a cable would mean you would need to repair the amp (instead of replacing a cable). Not a big deal...just an observation.

I have not seen any of these receivers live yet.

 

[highfigh]

does anyone know if this website is run by the same people as avsforums.com? the layout is almost exactly the same.

If you look at the bottom of the page, you'll see that the forum is "Powered by vBulletin", which is widely used.

 

[techboo]

The onkyo's do that too. the higher receivers have the plug instead of the integrated power cord. i thought it had to do with the 12v trigger, so you can control the power of another device (it turns on/off when the avr turns on and off).

im curious about the dolby pro logic IIz. it says it will play front high speakers. but the connections on the 2312 and 2112 are for surround back. ??? so if i hook up front highs but the dvd doesn't have DPL2z, then will i be hearing surround back when i want to hear front highs?

 

[techboo]

If you look at the bottom of the page, you'll see that the forum is "Powered by vBulletin", which is widely used.

ok thanks for pointing that out. avsform is powered by "vBadvanced" similar name (vB....) plus the almost identical interface just had me wondering.

 

[cpp]

Regarding the Denon receivers they are well made, but all I know is they are light in weight as compared to say, NAD, Anthem, Yamaha, Onkyo and Integra and others of the same wattage .. Is it the build construction or is it the quality of the transformers ?

 

[highfigh]

Regarding the Denon receivers they are well made, but all I know is they are light in weight as compared to say, NAD, Anthem, Yamaha, Onkyo and Integra and others of the same wattage .. Is it the build construction or is it the quality of the transformers ?

I wouldn't worry about the weight- it's not an absolute factor in whether the xx12 series is better or worse than the other brands. However, if you have older source equipment that doesn't use HDMI you and need more than four digital inputs, the 3312 won't be a good choice because it only has two digital coax and two optical inputs.

 

[techboo]

So what's anyone's opinion about these new Denons vs Onkyos (609 and 709)? anyone have a long history with either? any comments on reliability?

 

[kurtkrum]

My big question was the the THD - does 0.02 really make a difference that can be discerned by the average dude. I have a decent set of Def Tech speakers for my home theater, but nothing super high end.

Denon gets lots of thumbs up with people I know...

 

[kurtkrum]

Not to spam this thread, but I think I found an answer to the question - I saw this on another site:

THD doesn't become audible until it reaches about 1% in the higher frequencies and up to 3 to 5% in the lower frequencies. So both numbers stated would be inaudible.

This leads me to believe that this is little difference in the three Denon recievers, with the exception of power output and the number/types of source inputs on the back.

Unless there is a difference with the firmware or chipsets in the box, these should have close to identical quality.

 

[techboo]

I have some ok polk rm705 speakers. will the 3312 make them sound any better than what the 2312 can do?

It looks like the 2312 is worth the extra over the 2112 because of it's hdmi capabilities.

 

[PENG]

How about $640 for the Marantz SR6005:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B003R7KMRE/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1307321897&sr=8-1&condition=new

Or $562 for the Denon AVR-3310:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002AKKFQ2/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1307322015&sr=1-1&condition=new

Both have 7 channel pre-outs, the Denon 2XXX do not. Pre-outs give you the option to add an external amplifier if you need one down the road.

 

[highfigh]

My big question was the the THD - does 0.02 really make a difference that can be discerned by the average dude. I have a decent set of Def Tech speakers for my home theater, but nothing super high end.

Denon gets lots of thumbs up with people I know...

Nobody will ever hear .02% THD or IM. 1.0% THD is 20 dB below the average signal level and at low SPL, it's inaudible. Even at higher SPL, it's usually masked by the desired audio. S/N ratio can be more important if the average SPL of the signal is low.