Just what is the LFE Channel?

J

jay21112

Audioholic
OK, so my two front tower speakers have built in subwoofers. However, I also have 2 very nice subwoofers in the theater as well. So the question is, what do I cross the front speakers over at? I have them at full range right now, but is that right?

This is what I don't get. What is the LFE channel? Is it a channel that has it's own track? IE: the studios create sound for the center channel, the front left channel, the front right channel, etc....AND the LFE channel? So if I put ALL my speakers to full range, i'd still get sound coming out of the LFE channel because it has it's own track.

OR is the LFE channel just a mixture of what the other speakers are crossed over at? So if I put all my speakers to full range, nothing would come out of the sub, because there isn't a separate track for the sub, and all the speakers are handling the LFE of the movie.

I'm thinking that LFE has it's own track, so running the front L+R speakers in full range is fine because they have their own subs. BUT if the LFE doesn't have it's own track, then I should cross the front towers over at like 40 or 60, and send most of the LFE to the subs... (The crossover in the speaker itself is set at 80 - so 80 and under gets processed by the built in subwoofer. So if I set the crossover for the LFE at 40, then 40 and under would go to the theater subwoofer, 41-80 to the speaker subwoofer, and 81+ to the mids+highs of the speaker).

Am I making sense?
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
OK, so my two front tower speakers have built in subwoofers. However, I also have 2 very nice subwoofers in the theater as well. So the question is, what do I cross the front speakers over at? I have them at full range right now, but is that right?

This is what I don't get. What is the LFE channel? Is it a channel that has it's own track? IE: the studios create sound for the center channel, the front left channel, the front right channel, etc....AND the LFE channel? So if I put ALL my speakers to full range, i'd still get sound coming out of the LFE channel because it has it's own track.
The Low Frequency Effects channel is a discrete channel separate from all the rest and is limited to 120 Hz and below, although most movie soundtracks rarely have frequencies above 80 Hz or so in the LFE channel.

If you have regular speakers without a built-in sub, setting them to full range means they get the entire frequency range. If you didn't have a separate sub, the LFE content gets routed to the front speakers that are set to full range. This is generally what you don't want to do...you should set a xover for each of the channels and have the LFE routed to the subs.

In your case with subs built-in (Def Tech?) if you set the speakers to full range they get the entire frequency range but then the built-in sub plays only what is below the xover point. However, if you set the other channels to Small (or set a xover frequency as receivers that allow separate xovers per channel do nowadays), those other non-LFE bass frequencies will also go to the built-in sub if your receiver is set to subwoofer=No.
 
J

jay21112

Audioholic
Ok, that makes sense, thanks!


But, now, how about this:
Do movies put content lower than 30hz in the front L+R channels, or do they just reserve that content for the LFE channel?

This is why I ask:

My front L+R speakers (BTW they are Polk) say they go down to 30hz.
My sub says it goes down to 20hz.

So, if I have the front L+R set at full range, that means they are getting 20hz tones, but not playing them, because the speaker only goes down to 30 hz.

So, if instead of full range, I set just the front L+R speakers to crossover at like 40hz (I think that's the lowest my receiver allows me to set a crossover point), then everything under 40hz would get sent to my LFE subwoofer, and I'd actually hear tones from 30hz - 20 hz.

So, that's the way to go, right?
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
But, now, how about this:
Do movies put content lower than 30hz in the front L+R channels, or do they just reserve that content for the LFE channel?
I haven't done any kind of exhaustive analysis but there is no reason a movie soundtrack couldn't/wouldn't put sub 30 Hz content in the regular channels. The LFE channel is for the 'effects' - like the loud explosion you weren't expecting that suddenly scares you out of your seat. But, any music that accompanies the soundtrack may have deep bass as well.

My front L+R speakers (BTW they are Polk) say they go down to 30hz.
My sub says it goes down to 20hz.

So, if I have the front L+R set at full range, that means they are getting 20hz tones, but not playing them, because the speaker only goes down to 30 hz.
Speakers (and the xover circuitry in a receiver too) don't just stop playing at a specific frequency. It gradually rolls off so the speakers may be playing the 20 Hz tone but it's so low in amplitude compared to the higher frequencies within its range that the effect is muted.

Configuration gets tricky with speakers that include a 'sub' as part of the cabinet because there are a few different designs and you really have to think about signal routing and which speaker(s) you want to do the work:

Case 1: If the speakers have a separate external input for the subwoofer part, then it can be considered a separate sub for all intents and purposes. In that case, you'd connect an RCA cable from the receiver's sub pre-out to the sub in the cabinet and set subwoofer=Yes in the receiver setup menus. You'd set all channels to a xover frequency you want (80 Hz is often best) and all the bass below that point, including the LFE channel, gets sent to the sub in the speaker cabinet.

If you also want additional external subs, you'd either use a splitter from the receiver's sub pre-out or daisy chain the subs together. In either case, all subs (including the built-in) will play all channel's bass and LFE.

Case 2: The speaker has a built-in 'sub' but no external input - just normal speaker wire connections. It sounds like this is your case because you said the sub has an internal xover of 80 Hz.

You'd want the fronts with the sub set to full range and let the speaker itself hand off sub 80 Hz bass to the internal sub. Subwoofer=no in the receiver setup.

Using additional subs
Again with using additional external subs, you'd have to set subwoofer=Yes but now things get tricky. If you set the fronts to Small (xover set), all the bass below the xover setting in the receiver, including LFE, will go to those external subs (LFE always goes to the sub). Not much content below 80 Hz will reach the front speakers so the internal sub will do pretty much nothing.

If you set the fronts to full range (Large), the internal sub will handle anything ~80 Hz because the speaker is getting the full range and the internal sub is taking the 80 Hz and below for itself instead of the other drivers. But, bass for the other channels, including LFE, will go the external subs.

So it's a matter of trying to wrap your head around what kind of signal routing is going on with different configurations. Speakers with a built-in sub are generally meant to be used stand-alone without additional subs. You can use additional subs if you want but like I said it gets tricky.
 
J

jay21112

Audioholic
Yes, I love this home theater stuff because as tricky and confusing as it gets...it just means that it gives us so much more customization and satisfaction when everything is finally in order.

I think I'm following everything. I think what I'm really doing is using the subwoofer attached to the Front L+R speakers as just a "regular woofer" instead of a traditional "subwoofer".

I have speaker wire going from the front L+R channels to their respective speakers, and it powers the passive front L+R tower's MTM speakers. Then I have an interconnect going from the front L+R channels preouts to their respective speakers LFE in jack, and it powers the front L+R tower's active subwoofers. (These speakers are biwired, or I guess more specifically bi-amped.) ....Then I have an interconnect going from the receiver's LFE out to my standalone subwoofers.

So, what I'm about to do is go into the theater and set:
Subwoofer = yes
Front L+R crossover = 40 hz.
All other speakers crossover (center, surround, rear surround)= 80 hz
And the crossover on the front L+R tower themselves to 80 hz.

So, every MTM in the system will be cut off at 80 hz.
The front L+R tower subs will play the front L+R signals from 80hz to 40hz.
The stand alone subs will play LFE channel, front L+R signals below 40 hz, and all the rest of the channels (center, surround, rear surround) below 80 hz.

Yup, I think that's it.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
Sounds like a good plan and you've got all the routing figured out.
 

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