What Would You Pick?

[PearlcorderS701]

Between these, do you think there's much discernable difference...which one would you choose?

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=DX-C390&class=Compact Disc&p=i

or

http://integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=CDC-3.4&class=CD&p=i

Should there be much audible performance difference between them? Is it pretty much aesthetics?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated as I move forward with replacing my Marantz CC4001...

 

[Pyrrho]

It is unlikely that you would hear any difference at all between them. However, quite a few people are reporting problems with the first one you mention; take a look at the reviews at:

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-DXC390-Disc-CD-Player/product-reviews/B0000EZ1KK/

Since the other one is made by the same manufacturer, I would look for reviews of it as well.

This is quite distressing, as the older Onkyo CD changers with which I have experience have not had reliability problems, and I am now used to having a 6 disc changer and would not like to go back to only 5 discs if my old Onkyo failed. But judging from the reviews, it does not seem like a good idea to buy that new Onkyo CD changer.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

It is unlikely that you would hear any difference at all between them. However, quite a few people are reporting problems with the first one you mention; take a look at the reviews at:

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-DXC390-Disc-CD-Player/product-reviews/B0000EZ1KK/

Since the other one is made by the same manufacturer, I would look for reviews of it as well.

This is quite distressing, as the older Onkyo CD changers with which I have experience have not had reliability problems, and I am now used to having a 6 disc changer and would not like to go back to only 5 discs if my old Onkyo failed. But judging from the reviews, it does not seem like a good idea to buy that new Onkyo CD changer.

Hello Py, and thanks very much for your honest input here...

Indeed, I've read some distressing and negative reviews about the 390 as well, but the unit just looks so nice with the cool green light for the tray and appears real solid with the aluminum faceplate, etc...plus, there is the usage of the premium DACs and such...seems strange that this unit has been reported to have some widespread issues...

Perhaps it's just a changer thing; my Marantz has had issues almost from day one -- not keeping a programming memory, skipping discs in a rotation completely, not reading discs, skipping and digital stuttering on discs I know are not damaged and on and on...this 390 may in fact have similar problems.

The thing is, I'd like to "mate" it with my TX-8555 stereo receiver in this system as I've never had any issues with their stuff to date -- even an old TX-SR600 is still working in a gym system I have and that's been through a cross-country move which resulted in a dented and gashed chassis and storage in over 100-degree heat for years. Still works.

The Integra, on the other hand, is indeed made by the same company of course but would satisfy, as another member had once pointed out in a different thread about high end CD changers, my desire for a more "upscale" carousel changer that would perhaps offer better quality -- perhaps going "up" to the Integra badge would yield a better built product especially in this category, but to be honest (even though they're the same manufacturer) I'd prefer the Onkyo 390...

 

[Pyrrho]

You could buy a used Onkyo changer, or you can take your chances with the one that is new. Of course, used is also somewhat risky, as there is no guarantee with it. If you choose to take your chances with a new one, I strongly recommend buying from some store that has a superb return policy (including them paying return shipping, if it is not a local store) and that would not be too inconvenient for you to return it to them, if it turns out to be problematic.

As for changers in general, I don't think that carousel changers tend to be significantly different in reliability than single disc players, due to them having only a very simple additional mechanism that simply moves the discs in a circle. And from reading about this issue in the past, and from my brother who repairs electronics for a living. And from my personal experience with them, which is too small of a sample size to infer anything much in itself, but my personal experience fits in with all of the other information I have encountered regarding this matter.

Other types of changers tend to be less reliable, and more likely to damage discs if things go wrong. This I know from sources like Consumer Reports and my electronics technician brother.

If the new Onkyo changer is unreliable, it means that Onkyo screwed something up horribly, as carousel CD changers tend to be very reliable, just like single disc players tend to be very reliable. Of course, eventually, they will die, but they typically last a long time if not abused.

I have an old Onkyo DX-C340, which must be about 10 years old or so, and it works beautifully. If it died now, that would not be too bad of a run for such a player, but it is not showing any signs of dying. When it eventually does die, I will be sad if my only choice is the DX-C390 or a different brand that only holds 5 discs. Maybe I should start haunting thrift stores for very cheap used Onkyo changers that are no older than my current one...

 

[PearlcorderS701]

You could buy a used Onkyo changer, or you can take your chances with the one that is new. Of course, used is also somewhat risky, as there is no guarantee with it. If you choose to take your chances with a new one, I strongly recommend buying from some store that has a superb return policy (including them paying return shipping, if it is not a local store) and that would not be too inconvenient for you to return it to them, if it turns out to be problematic.

Do you honestly think if I went this route that the possibility leans more heavily towards definitely getting a defective unit? I mean, there were a gaggle of positive reviews on this model, as well; let me sum them up separately (from the Amazon link you provided):

POSITIVE REPLIES AND EXPERIENCES:

I bought an Onkyo C-390 refurb model a few months back and have had excellent results. I burn my own music CDs on blank CDR or CDRW media using the CD burner on my Home PC. The C-390 tracks everything I've thrown at it very accurately without a hitch. It even plays MP3 files burned onto CD. Plus the remote control unit is full featured and works flawlessly.

There are two digital connections, a digital fiber optic TOSlink and a digital coax connection on the back of the unit. I use the fiber optic TOSlink connection to my reciever. A digital connection will give you the purest output. There is also the typical analog RCA jack connection.

The only flaw I have to report is the carrousel makes a bit of a whirling noise when changing CDs. This is NOT reproduced through to the speakers but is simply low-level ambient room noise. Other than that one minor quibble I can give this CD Changer my highest recommendation.

And...

This 6-disc CD changer from the audio experts at Onkyo is most definitely an unbeatable value. It's sound quality clearly rivals that of other high-end players costing up to three times as much! The construction is very, very sturdy and the remote control is very easy to use. The sound quality is all-around-excellent with smooth and deep bass, an almost-crystal-clear midrange and a well-defined treble (highs). If you're looking for a good CD changer priced at under $300.00 this is the one to get.

And...

Got this today, hooked up optical connection to my Sony 7.1 100 watt per channel receiver; 20% louder and clearer than playing mp3 on DVD player. Extremely happy about this purchase. Amazon by far lowest price on the internet. Great!

And...

We are very pleased with the clarity and beauty of sound we are getting from our Onkyo DXC390 6 Disc CD Player. It arrived punctually in perfect condition! The price was most reasonable for the quality of this machine! We would highly recommend it!

And...

This CD player was just what I was looking for. It is attractive, easy to use, and holds multiple CD's. While it is large in size compared with a lot of electronics, it fits into the space our previous 5 disc player occupied. All the features work, and there have not been any problems with the rotation and playing of the CD's. This is a very nice multiple CD player at a reasonable price.

NEGATIVE FEEDBACK:

My first Onkyo 6 Disc CD Changer died in March of 2011. It had played music without interruption for 19 years. What a great piece of equipment! Since then, I have ordered two new CD changers in the past month (March 2011)and neither one of them compares to the first. There are a number of issues with the new version. They do a poor job of playing CDs that are copies of original CDs. They stop in mid song and quit playing. Then mysteriously moves to the last song on the CD. We have no clue what makes the machine do this. It must be possessed! Finally, on some CDs, when the last song has played, the changer will not switch to the next CD. We are totally bummed out by this. The overall machine doesn't have the same quality as the old model and appears to be of cheaper materials.

And...

The sound on this when i hooked it up was great. I have an Onkyo reciever so I ignored the large amount of bad reviews. I am an onkyo fan and do remain one. THis is not the CD player you are looking for. AS I said it worked, looked and sounded great; for a day. Then the tray stopped opening and closing correctly. Specifically, it stopped closing and playing CD's. Back to amazon immediatey...which by the way, with UPS pick up, is five stars for amazon!! Great return service. I am going to try the Yamaha, i know they make a good product!! And for the record; For those of you that think single function CD players are obsolete due to DVD players; think again!! I will get back to you on the Yamaha. I have a feeling I will be very happy!!

And...

Well, buying this player was a mistake. We were in a hurry to find a multi-disk changer before our wedding. I always thought Onkyo was a good name and I had found some favorable reviews. The audio is fine with this player, but about 2/3 of the time it won't recognize CDs. It doesn't matter if the CDs are commercially produced or home-burned, and I keep my CDs in very good shape so it's not a matter of fingerprints and scratches. It's also interesting that if I advance to about track 3 until the CD is recognized and then back up to track 1 it will usually work... what a pain in the ___. It's done this since day one but with the wedding arrangements I didn't have time to return it to the vendor within the first 30 days.

Now the changer is bad, but so far trying to get through to their support has been even worse! For 4 months I've been trying to call in at different times of different days during their support hours. First off, I always get "your call will be answered in 59 minutes". After about 30 minutes I typically can't wait any longer so I have to hang up. Once I let it go on for 30+ minutes than was disconnected. This morning we're up to 66 minutes (since I started this I'm up to 72 minutes) on the phone timer and they say the call will be answered in 8 minutes. If I get anywhere with them I'll update the review, but my current opinion is DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME ON THIS COMPANY'S PRODUCTS, especially this model CD changer.

As for changers in general, I don't think that carousel changers tend to be significantly different in reliability than single disc players, due to them having only a very simple additional mechanism that simply moves the discs in a circle. And from reading about this issue in the past, and from my brother who repairs electronics for a living. And from my personal experience with them, which is too small of a sample size to infer anything much in itself, but my personal experience fits in with all of the other information I have encountered regarding this matter.

Other types of changers tend to be less reliable, and more likely to damage discs if things go wrong. This I know from sources like Consumer Reports and my electronics technician brother.

If the new Onkyo changer is unreliable, it means that Onkyo screwed something up horribly, as carousel CD changers tend to be very reliable, just like single disc players tend to be very reliable. Of course, eventually, they will die, but they typically last a long time if not abused.

I have an old Onkyo DX-C340, which must be about 10 years old or so, and it works beautifully. If it died now, that would not be too bad of a run for such a player, but it is not showing any signs of dying. When it eventually does die, I will be sad if my only choice is the DX-C390 or a different brand that only holds 5 discs. Maybe I should start haunting thrift stores for very cheap used Onkyo changers that are no older than my current one...

Well, I have to respectfully disagree with you there -- it seems that every changer, just about, that I have ever owned always had some kind of "hiccup" as compared to single disc units. I don't believe, however, the argument that diehard audiophile types make with regard to any single disc player outperforming a carousel design, just by default alone; I don't think this is justified unless we're talking about an esoteric multi-thousand-dollar player from an uber-boutique brand which is made from exotic materials and so forth...at any rate, it just seems strange that every carousel I get seems to have drive issues, programming quirks and disc-skipping problems which leads me to believe there is some kind of inherent issue with a carousel mechanism, or the way these are made. There may have been some real solid ones -- perhaps the out of production Rotel or a few Yamahas, which I have heard glowing things about -- but I get the feeling that it's a "changer thing" as I said. However -- I totally respect your viewpoint on this, as well as your brother's, and regardless of how I feel, I definitely still want and need a new five or six disc changer...

 

[sfigueroa4]

I actually received a 390 as a gift from my (now ex) girlfriend. I had to return it for the same problems. Half my burned CDs wouldn't play. I thought this was her way of dumping me.

Became embarrassing when I had to plug in the Ipod into the receiver during a family get-together so the music wouldn't selectively stop.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I actually received a 390 as a gift from my (now ex) girlfriend. I had to return it for the same problems. Half my burned CDs wouldn't play. I thought this was her way of dumping me.

Became embarrassing when I had to plug in the Ipod into the receiver during a family get-together so the music wouldn't selectively stop.

Thanks for your input on this, and welcome to the forum!

This is a bit disheartening about the 390 -- was it a brand new changer? Refurbished? That's a pretty odd (although really nice) gift to receive from a girlfriend; did you tell her you were in the market for a CD changer?

Perhaps it was a sign that you guys weren't meant to be. I've been in and out of so many relationships (before I got married) that I know exactly what you experienced.

However, with regard to the Onkyo, I wouldn't need it for burned CD-R playback, just store-bought commercial CDs (I normally play my burned CD-R compilations in my car solely)...how was the deck with standard CD playback? Sound quality good?

 

[anamorphic96]

What is it about a changer you want so much ? Multiple MP3 loaded CD's for extended listening ? Do you really listen for long periods of time and need alot of variety ? If so, you should think about a server based system. You can obtain better sound quality for a cheaper price as well as have the ability of running high resolution albums.

You might have mentioned this in the past in more detail but I'm to lazy to go looking.

The other question is why not have both. You could do it cheaper as well.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

What is it about a changer you want so much ? Multiple MP3 loaded CD's for extended listening ? Do you really listen for long periods of time and need alot of variety ? If so, you should think about a server based system. You can obtain better sound quality for a cheaper price as well as have the ability of running high resolution albums.

You might have mentioned this in the past in more detail but I'm to lazy to go looking.

The other question is why not have both. You could do it cheaper as well.

This system is in a room that also contains a fish tank and is a kind of "relaxation" room in addition to the 2-channel serious listening area -- we sit for extended periods of time in here and like to listen to a local FM jazz station and with the CDs, like to load the changer up for hours of music in which we can either let full albums play, or skip a disc, etc. to play a different one...

Also, when I burn custom compilation CD-Rs on my TASCAM burner (which is connected digitally to the Marantz CD changer) I load five discs at a time to be burned off of and do my compilations in that exact order -- five discs at a time. Of course, this all could be done in the fashion you suggest, on a server based system, but I just prefer definitely handling my music on some kind of physical media, like Compact Disc...it's like the people who buy the high-end single-disc CD players (like the models Onkyo has been selling again and the kind that Marantz, Emotiva, etc. offer) who like to take a disc, put it into the drive of the player, sit down, and really LISTEN to the music.

 

[anamorphic96]

This system is in a room that also contains a fish tank and is a kind of "relaxation" room in addition to the 2-channel serious listening area -- we sit for extended periods of time in here and like to listen to a local FM jazz station and with the CDs, like to load the changer up for hours of music in which we can either let full albums play, or skip a disc, etc. to play a different one...

Also, when I burn custom compilation CD-Rs on my TASCAM burner (which is connected digitally to the Marantz CD changer) I load five discs at a time to be burned off of and do my compilations in that exact order -- five discs at a time. Of course, this all could be done in the fashion you suggest, on a server based system, but I just prefer definitely handling my music on some kind of physical media, like Compact Disc...it's like the people who buy the high-end single-disc CD players (like the models Onkyo has been selling again and the kind that Marantz, Emotiva, etc. offer) who like to take a disc, put it into the drive of the player, sit down, and really LISTEN to the music.

Fair enough. It just seems like a lot of work for no gain in sound quality. Remember you can have both for the same price your gonna spend on the Onkyo or Integra.

You can really LISTEN with a server based system as well. A server based system will get it's hooks in you one day, and once it does you will never go back. But I can appreciate the physical media aspect but I gave up the fight about 4 years ago. The superior sound quality, convenience, and flexibility of a server are very compelling and won me over.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Fair enough. It just seems like a lot of work for no gain in sound quality.

What do you mean? A lot of work how? Do you feel either the Integra or Onkyo wouldn't sound good?

Remember you can have both for the same price your gonna spend on the Onkyo or Integra.

What do you mean "both"?

You used to recommend Onkyo's stuff to me (hence why I have the 8555 in my 2-channel rack) -- why all of a sudden are you trying to talk me out of either of these changers?

You can really LISTEN with a server based system as well. A server based system will get it's hooks in you one day, and once it does you will never go back. But I can appreciate the physical media aspect but I gave up the fight about 4 years ago. The superior sound quality, convenience, and flexibility of a server are very compelling and won me over.

I understand.

 

[anamorphic96]

You can make a playlist on your computer and burn a disc that is bit perfect in minutes. Seems redundant to have all the other gear when your computer can do everything.

What I mean by both is you can buy an inexpensive changer with a digital out and a nice DAC and you can then have both for about the same price as the Integra. The Onkyo has lower street price so I might be a tad off in my comparison.

I haven't knocked Onkyo. Just the delivery medium. Just trying to show you the other side of this digital coin, and that more options are available if your willing to try something different, besides you can keep the changer its' not like you have to lose this option. It's a win win situation in my book and something worth looking at.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

You can make a playlist on your computer and burn a disc that is bit perfect in minutes. Seems redundant to have all the other gear when your computer can do everything.

Oh, okay; I get you now -- I know what you're saying, but I still prefer sitting down and burning the discs through hardware like a CD recorder...

But the computer sure does make it easier...

What I mean by both is you can buy an inexpensive changer with a digital out and a nice DAC and you can then have both for about the same price as the Integra. The Onkyo has lower street price so I might be a tad off in my comparison.

Oh, you mean the Onkyo 390 AND the server system would come to about the price of the Integra?

I haven't knocked Onkyo. Just the delivery medium. Just trying to show you the other side of this digital coin, and that more options are available if your willing to try something different, besides you can keep the changer its' not like you have to lose this option. It's a win win situation in my book and something worth looking at.

To have both a changer and a server, you mean?

 

[anamorphic96]

Yes. Maybe a little more.

And yes to both changer and server.

Even your beloved Onkyo has embraced the DAC world and created there own high end option not available in the US. Which is typical. The good stuff is usually for the overseas markets.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Sorry for the slight delay in getting back to you -- was just looking through my personal comment control panel and reading some cowardly rhetoric from some douche bag who continues to give me negative rep in there without divulging himself, and who I can honestly return the gesture of "guess which finger I am holding up right now" to...I love how cowardly these kind of online harassment predators get when it's so anonymous. I'm sure there will be more comments after these, as seemingly, this loser -- or it may be losers (Who knows? Maybe this imbecile has his little Audioholics henchmen posting comments every couple of hours for him, too) -- has apparently nothing better to do than to drop comments about every one of my threads and how I'm the one who is rude to people trying to help me when believe you me, that's so far off the mark and from reality...

No matter; I'm going to handle this with site administrators very soon.

Getting back to what we were talking about -- I don't feel Onkyo is worthy of a "beloved" moniker; I just happen to appreciate their build quality and how it coexists with their asking prices. But are you saying they too build a server that's not for U.S. markets?

 

[anamorphic96]

Sorry for the slight delay in getting back to you -- was just looking through my personal comment control panel and reading some cowardly rhetoric from some douche bag who continues to give me negative rep in there without divulging himself, and who I can honestly return the gesture of "guess which finger I am holding up right now" to...I love how cowardly these kind of online harassment predators get when it's so anonymous. I'm sure there will be more comments after these, as seemingly, this loser -- or it may be losers (Who knows? Maybe this imbecile has his little Audioholics henchmen posting comments every couple of hours for him, too) -- has apparently nothing better to do than to drop comments about every one of my threads and how I'm the one who is rude to people trying to help me when believe you me, that's so far off the mark and from reality...

No matter; I'm going to handle this with site administrators very soon.

Getting back to what we were talking about -- I don't feel Onkyo is worthy of a "beloved" moniker; I just happen to appreciate their build quality and how it coexists with their asking prices. But are you saying they too build a server that's not for U.S. markets?

The beloved statement about Onkyo is a friendly poke nothing serious or personal implied. I'm a bit of a NAD fanboy myself. We all have are company.

Yes Onkyo does make a high end DAC for the overseas market.

http://www.jp.onkyo.com/audiovisual/purecomponents/accessories/dac1000/gallery.htm

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Ah-ha...very interesting...

 

[ashergill]

One thing I will add with regard to having difficulty playing some burned CDs is that not all blank media is created equal. The ubiquitous blank CD bundles from the common manufacturers are often not the best you can buy, and more CDs will have defects in these bundles. Burn speed also makes a difference, as higher burn speeds are more likely to cause errors and result in poor recording. Do some research, and you'll find the better blank discs to buy.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

One thing I will add with regard to having difficulty playing some burned CDs is that not all blank media is created equal. The ubiquitous blank CD bundles from the common manufacturers are often not the best you can buy, and more CDs will have defects in these bundles. Burn speed also makes a difference, as higher burn speeds are more likely to cause errors and result in poor recording. Do some research, and you'll find the better blank discs to buy.

That's true -- all blank media is NOT created equal, and that may have played a part in that member's difficulty with his own Onkyo changer. I have been burning CD-Rs for a good many years now, and have always used brands from "established" manufacturers such as Maxell and TDK, and now since I have a professional grade recorder which can take so-called "pro" data and audio blanks, I have been using HHB CD-Rs which are of very high quality. I also believe in the "1X" or "real time" burn speed for the best recording results, as you have mentioned, and I agree that doing high speed dubs yields errors.

 

[SocyFisher]

If i were to choose between these two, i believe i would love to have DX-C390. It has good reviews so far and you can have it at a reasonable price of $194.