Home Audio System around 5k

[SsFoam]

Hello I am new here and would like some opinions on putting together a home system. I use to be pretty good with putting together systems for a car and It took me a lot of $$$ and time to get the system I liked. I dont really want to spend a few years to try and get the home sytem right. I have a pretty big living room (approx 1000 square feet with 20' ceilings) I would like to be around 5k max and have been looking at used amps on ebay. Any recommendations on equipment would be appreciated.

 

[templemaners]

So what parts do you need? Do you have a TV, receiver, Blu-Ray player anything like that already? You also need to give us more details on what sort of performance you are looking for. Are you looking for a 5.1 system, 7.1... do you want a lot of bass, do you want room filling sound... etc etc.

A couple side notes:

• If you need the basic items (which I'll define as a TV, Blu-Ray player, speakers and subwoofer(s)), I wouldn't worry about an amplifier - you have much more pressing needs to spend your money on.
• I'm going to assume your measurements of room are correct. If so, that's 20K cubic feet of space to pressurize. You could probably spend your entire budget on subwoofers and still have less bass than someone who spent 1/4 of your budget, simply because of that stadium of a room you have. I would severely adjust your expectations of how much bass you can achieve in a room that size. Also, I would look heavily at ported subwoofers.
• Spend the bulk of your money on your speakers and display (if you need one) because, to use an auto analogy, that's the part where the rubber meets the road. The electronics (receiver or prepro, blu-ray player, amps) are largely secondary IMO of what will make a difference for you.
• Don't spend much of anything on cables. Monoprice and Blue Jeans Cable (a forum sponsor) sell cables at good prices that will perform just as well as the high priced cables.
• Do you have any SAF (spousal acceptance factors) that need to be factored in? Would you have an issue having two subs in the room? Do the speakers need to look nice?
• There's lots of factors that go into picking a proper speaker, but you might want to look into higher efficiency models because of your room size.
• You said you don't want to spend a few years to try and get your home system right - does that mean you want to buy everything at once or can you phase in different parts over time. For example, could you do a 2.1 or 3.1 system now and get surrounds and another sub later on, or do you want this to be a one shot deal? It's sort of a budget flexibility question...
• Lastly, there is a lot of information already out there about setups in this and other forums if you're willing to spend the time to search (if you're going so spend $5K, or even $500, it's time well spent). One thing that has helped me is to break down the parts of the system individually and figure out what will work best or give you the best value, then bring them together to see what you have as an integrated system.

 

[SsFoam]

Equipment

I have a system now that I will probably put in my garage. I am looking more for listening to music instead of watching movies. I would like to know some good brand names for amps, speaker, ect. As for bass I would rather have more highs or mids and want more clarity over just loud.

 

[SsFoam]

Amp

I guess I should start with a good receiver and amp maybe a couple tower speakers and keep building from there

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

At 5K you can't just rely on other people opinions.
You roughly need to spend 75% or more on speakers and for mostly music you should probably looking for good pair of speakers..

However, At this budget I'd strongly consider SalkSound Veracity HT2-TL pair of speakers will run you $4200
http://www.salksound.com/ht2-tl - home.htm
Jim Salk is exceptionally easy to talk to and he'd be ready to help you answer your questions and concerts, just pick up the phone.

Note these are 88db and 4 Ohm speakers, which mean you need some muscle to power them to full potential. Something like Onkyo TX-8555 will do nicely and won't cost arm and leg

I'd strongly suggest to you to start visiting local HT dealers and start listening to speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here is my recommendation.

1) Denon AVR-3310 for $459 (like new):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002AKKFQ2/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1304303608&sr=1-1&condition=used

or

2) Denon AVR-4310 for $900 (brand new):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002AKKFQ2/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1304303608&sr=1-1&condition=used

Denon is one of the best there is.

You can always add an amp to either one of these AVRs like the ATI AT2002 (200WPC x 2ch, $1095 + shipping) or AT3002 (300WPC x 2ch, $1395 + shipping):

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1307317045

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1307911246

Classic Audio Parts is an ATI authorized dealer, so you get the full 7 yrs parts and labor warranty.

ATI makes some amps for Mark Levinson, Lexicon, JBL, Outlaw Audio, Earthquake Sound, and 1/2 dozen companies. ATI is also the parent company of Theta Digital.

Another company that I can strongly recommend is Parasound; they are one of the best companies out there when it comes to pre-pros and amps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Speakers are more personal.

I've listened to some speakers that measure extremely well and also speakers that are loved by some very highly respected members. However, I find that these speakers are very, very underwhelming and disappointing.

But I think the first test for any speaker is the on-axis and off-axis frequency response measurement. If they can't even past this test, I would not even consider them. It tells me that they are not very ACCURATE speakers, which is the most important attribute IMO.

The second test is the most important. It is how these speakers sound to you. They have to sound great to you. Otherwise, they have failed you.

Here is one speaker that is worth looking at - The PSB Synchrony One:

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/psb_synchrony_one.htm

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/psb_synchrony_one/

 

[Pyrrho]

Hello I am new here and would like some opinions on putting together a home system. I use to be pretty good with putting together systems for a car and It took me a lot of $$$ and time to get the system I liked. I dont really want to spend a few years to try and get the home sytem right. I have a pretty big living room (approx 1000 square feet with 20' ceilings) I would like to be around 5k max and have been looking at used amps on ebay. Any recommendations on equipment would be appreciated.

I have a system now that I will probably put in my garage. I am looking more for listening to music instead of watching movies. I would like to know some good brand names for amps, speaker, ect. As for bass I would rather have more highs or mids and want more clarity over just loud.

The first thing you should buy are speakers. You should go out into the world and listen to as many brands, and as many types (e.g., ribbon, horn, dome, whatever) as you can find and can stand to audition.

Your speakers will affect the sound more than any other equipment you buy. So take your time and listen to a bunch of different ones, as they can be dramatically different from each other.

Until you have selected your speakers, you have no idea what amplification you need, as some speakers are very efficient and an easy impedance, and some are very inefficient and a difficult impedance.

At your budget, with an interest in music, I would audition these:

http://www.magnepan.com/model_MG_16

Very probably, they are what I would end up buying at your price point, though I would not end up spending the full $5k if all I wanted was to listen to CDs; I would probably not spend more than $1500 on amplification and a CD player (and very likely not that much). If I wanted an upgrade, it would go over budget:

http://www.magnepan.com/model_MG_37

 

[GranteedEV]

Considering a receiver/amp before speakers is akin to buying gas before the car!!

With a five thousand dollar budget we're probably looking at $3000 on fronts, ~1000 on subs, and ~500 on surrounds, and ~500 on a receiver.


These for mains + the matching center
These for surrounds

Then get a one of two these subs:

http://www.funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw_15_2

Then put it al together with a quality, affordable receiver like this one

 

[sholling]

I'll take a different tack - in a room that size I'd probably start looking at subs and budget $2000-2500 for 2-3 big ported 15" subwoofers, $1700-2000 for left and right front speakers, and only about $800 for the receiver. You can go back later and add a timbre matched center and surrounds.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, after Gene's review of the EMP E55ti, I would have to say give these speakers a look.

They look beautiful. I love the burl red finish. Add the matching subwoofer, and you got yourself a full range system. Plus the 30-day home trial is nice so if you don't like it, you can always return them.

Gene measured the IN-ROOM response to be +/- 2dB variation from 300Hz-20kHz, which tells you these are very accurate speakers.

Makes me want to replace my Infinity P362s in the family room with these.

 

[k_lewis]

I'd suggest starting with a good preamp/processor and separate amplifier vs a combo receiver/amplifier, and using XLR interconnects for a starting point. Shop on audiogon, check ebay occasionally, and of course the forum classifieds here.

I really like the Integra 80.2, a lot of quality for the cost- but if you don't need 3D then get an 80.1 for about $1400 used, same as the 80.2 except it does not have hdmi 1.4 or 3D.
An Arcam P1000 is around $800 used and very decent sound. As AcuDef mentioned, an ATI amp is a decent choice as well and around the same range.

Speakers, that is a tough one because good speakers just don't come cheap- You could go budget for now and save up for a good set later on, knowing that your preamp and amp are able to be fully utilized with superior speakers. Martin Logan Clarity-i's are around a grand or less each and have good sound for musical playback. They are a bit light on the sub bass though, but are sufficient to get you into the arena of audiophile listening. What I like about the Logan's is the planar design has a very good center imaging ability and provide a sense of spaciousness and depth of field. Placement is a bit critical though, but once you have them set up right for your listening area you know it.

A good relatively inexpensive CD transport for a start is any of the 2-3 year old Arcam CD players. I'm mentioning equipment that has XLR capability since typically going with unbalanced interconnects will give you a further advantage for 2ch listening. Plus, you don;t need to go nuts with expensive cables. Any decent commercial quality XLR cable from Monoprice etc will do fine in all except the most ultra high end systems. Canare makes good inexpensive XLR cables, as an example.

You should be able to do all of the above for under your budget with some patience and dilligence. If you can squeeze it in, add a sub as it will add to the 2ch experience. I love the older REL Storm series of subs and I see them on Audiogon occasionally for around $600. Very musical sub and is fast enough to keep up with planar speakers like the Logans. BG makes a Z series of sub at around $300 that is insanely good, and also will keep up with planars.

I wish you luck on your quest, and most of all with sticking to your budget - Most of the fun is in building it, tweaking, and getting everything to your particular liking. Expect changes to be made along the way, it is all par for the course. There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread so you should have a very decent amount of information to sift through.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

good speakers just don't come cheap

I disagree with that.

I think speakers with exotic, exquisite, or ultra-fine cabinets don't come cheap.

I think speakers with ultra-accurate drivers and precision crossovers don't come cheap.

Cost may translate into beautiful and ultra-crafted cabinets and parts.

But cost does not always translate into SOUND QUALITY to EVERYONE.

The same could be said with speaker measurements.

Some speakers may have extremely little resonance due to their extremely well-made cabinets, but yet may not sound that great to everyone.

Some speakers may have excellent frequency responses, but yet may not sound that great to everyone.

When you audition enough speakers, you will probably experience that.

No matter how many times I listen to the Infinity P362, I'm amazed at how good they sound to me. Sure, some people don't think they sound good, but a lot of people would agree with me that they do sound great.

I dare go on record and say that I think the P362s sound better than some speakers costing 5 - 6 times.

Sure, you may think I'm crazy.

You may disagree 100%, but please don't get offended.

That is just my honest objective opinion.

On the other hand, I've auditioned the expensive Revel Salon 2 towers and the KEF 201/2 bookshelf speakers, and I think they are worth every dime.

Cost can translate into sound quality. Sure it can. But not always.

The ONLY way is to actually listen for yourself.

But there are other factors to buying speakers. Like the speakers themselves, the determining factors are also made of compromises.

Do you want speakers with a high level of "respect" or "pedigree" or "pride" or "prestige" or reputation?

Do you want speakers that look beautiful aesthetically?

 

[GranteedEV]

The same could be said with speaker measurements.

Some speakers may have extremely little resonance due to their extremely well-made cabinets, but yet may not sound that great to everyone.

Some speakers may have excellent frequency responses, but yet may not sound that great to everyone.

When you audition enough speakers, you will probably experience that.

That's only because most speakers measure poorly, even though we don't see those measurements!!!

 

[sholling]

Well, after Gene's review of the EMP E55ti, I would have to say give these speakers a look.

They look beautiful. I love the burl red finish. Add the matching subwoofer, and you got yourself a full range system. Plus the 30-day home trial is nice so if you don't like it, you can always return them.

Just based on reviews this seems like a great idea. I just held back on suggesting them because I haven't heard them personally (review and faceoff). The OP could pick up a 5.0 set for less than $1500, add a pair of eD A7-350 (or three A5-350) subs for ~$2400/pr and that leaves just enough for a re-certified TX-NR3008 with Audyssey MultiEQ XT32. That 20,000cuft room is just too big. Now if the OP had another $1500 then it would be worth stepping up a notch.

They are beautiful. ​

 

[k_lewis]

I disagree with that.

I think speakers with exotic, exquisite, or ultra-fine cabinets don't come cheap.

I think speakers with ultra-accurate drivers and precision crossovers don't come cheap.

Cost may translate into beautiful and ultra-crafted cabinets and parts.

But cost does not always translate into SOUND QUALITY to EVERYONE.

The same could be said with speaker measurements.

Some speakers may have extremely little resonance due to their extremely well-made cabinets, but yet may not sound that great to everyone.

Some speakers may have excellent frequency responses, but yet may not sound that great to everyone.

When you audition enough speakers, you will probably experience that.

No matter how many times I listen to the Infinity P362, I'm amazed at how good they sound to me. Sure, some people don't think they sound good, but a lot of people would agree with me that they do sound great.

I dare go on record and say that I think the P362s sound better than some speakers costing 5 - 6 times.

Sure, you may think I'm crazy.

You may disagree 100%, but please don't get offended.

That is just my honest objective opinion.

On the other hand, I've auditioned the expensive Revel Salon 2 towers and the KEF 201/2 bookshelf speakers, and I think they are worth every dime.

Cost can translate into sound quality. Sure it can. But not always.

The ONLY way is to actually listen for yourself.

But there are other factors to buying speakers. Like the speakers themselves, the determining factors are also made of compromises.

Do you want speakers with a high level of "respect" or "pedigree" or "pride" or "prestige" or reputation?

Do you want speakers that look beautiful aesthetically?

I think there is a lot of truth and good points in your clarification of that- Compromises, no doubt. Choosing the 'best speakers' are a very subjective and personal thing irrespective of price point. Spending a lot of time auditioning speakers before buying is an absolute must. Buying speakers strictly for looks or prestige is absolutely silly IMO- Look at B&O. Ultra modern / sexy designs, very pricey, got the name thing going, sound like total garbage. Bose, well, say no more... the "flashiness" of a speaker is no indication of sound quality.

For my cheap speaker comment, I'm indeed referring to speakers that cost a few hundred dollars each. No offense intended and not to say there is anything wrong with it, I know your infinity's are around $100 each on sale at Fry's and I'd have to agree that at that price or even full retail they are a very decent speaker, awesome bang for the buck and they look nice. There are indeed speakers in the inexpensive range which do sound better than ones costing several times as much, mostly because some of the expensive ones are definitely not worth the price. Just per my tastes now, prior listening experiences and having bought a lot of inexpensive-up-through-expensive speakers, you've got to drop close to $1k or more per main speaker to break into a better level of sound reproduction quality, and then probably $6k-9k or more per speaker to get into a level above that. Just my humble opinion and I don't expect anyone to agree with me. But, it only really matters if you're going to get into a higher line of processor, amp, cables, etc that the more expensive speakers can take full advantage of. Otherwise it is a waste of coin.

Where I personally 'went wrong' was going to CES regularly, and going to regular demos of upper end speakers and equipment at dealer showrooms. It ruined me. I'd go home, turn on my current rig that I used to think was the bomb, and it felt flat. So I slowly stated creeping my way through the upgrades, and eventually wound up where I am with my gear today (and my opinions, obviously). I can say with certainty that for me personally, there is indeed a sonic difference available at higher price points of gear that cannot be achieved with lower price point gear. That is not a general statement, just my experience thus far. Which leads back to the excellent point by AcuDef of needing to do a lot of demo time with various speakers (and gear) before outlaying your $5k. Regardless of what anyone suggests here, that will be your best guide.

It's important IMO to listen to the expensive high end stuff just so you have a well rounded reference when listening to the not-so-expensive stuff, and it will lead you to the best choices that sound perfect to you. At least, I found this helpful for me.

 

[k_lewis]

Just based on reviews this seems like a great idea. I just held back on suggesting them because I haven't heard them personally (review and faceoff). The OP could pick up a 5.0 set for less than $1500, add a pair of eD A7-350 (or three A5-350) subs for ~$2400/pr and that leaves just enough for a re-certified TX-NR3008 with Audyssey MultiEQ XT32. That 20,000cuft room is just too big. Now if the OP had another $1500 then it would be worth stepping up a notch.

They are beautiful. ​

If those speakers sound half as good as they look, at that price it's looking like a definite winner. They look like they cost twice that, especially with details such as spiked feet and flared base.

 

[GranteedEV]

they sound wonderful. Not quite the most holographic imaging in the world, at least not in my room, but otherwise a good deal, with a very detailed but laid back top end and a smooth, clean, natural midrange, and they play loud without strain. but i would hope a person with a five thousand dollar budget could do better than a 800 dollar pair of mains. you'd have to be managing the budget pretty poorly to end up in such a scenario... i wpuld npt spend more than 800 on a receiver and separates are out of the question. I could build a pair of Nao Notes complete with electronics for that much.

 

[3db]

they sound wonderful. Not quite the most holographic imaging in the world, at least not in my room, but otherwise a good deal, with a very detailed but laid back top end and a smooth, clean, natural midrange, and they play loud without strain. but i would hope a person with a five thousand dollar budget could do better than a 800 dollar pair of mains. you'd have to be managing the budget pretty poorly to end up in such a scenario... i wpuld npt spend more than 800 on a receiver and separates are out of the question. I could build a pair of Nao Notes complete with electronics for that much.

Geeze, your describing the PSB Synchronies to a tee.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's only because most speakers measure poorly, even though we don't see those measurements!!!

In other words, we are only given the "best side" of a single picture, and not every single measurement?

The Paradigm S8 towers measure extremely well on both Home Theater Magazine and Soundstage (NRC anechoic chamber).

InTheIndustry listened to them with a set of dual subwoofers (if I recall correctly) and said he did not like the sound at all.

Whitey80 pretty said he was not that much impressed with the S8 either when he auditioned them.

Some people actually say they did not like the sound of the Revel Salon 2 or the KEF 207/2 speakers. Yet both these speakers measure exceptionally well.

Could it be that some people love the sound and some people don't?