Please help me choose my .1

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phishphan

Audioholic Intern
Hi All.

The nice folks in the loudspeaker forum have already helped me choose my 5 loudspeakers, NHT SuperZero 2.0, now I just need the .1 to compliment them.

The room is 16 x 18 with 9 foot ceilings and my ratio is 70% music and 30% movies.

I've done a ton of research and I think I've narrowed down my choices to:

Elemental Designs A3S-250 or the Hsu VTF-1.

Both are right in the price range I'd like to be in and stay in. So any advice on which to choose or perhaps, sigh, a 3rd option to consider would be most appreciated.

-phishphan
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
I would probably choose the VTF-1 out of those two.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Go with the VTF. For starters, it's on sale right now. And also the ED sub won't be in stock until June. Not only that, the VTF is likely to have a bit more punch.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
The 28-200hz frequency response would bug me for movies.

In a room that size for 70% movies I think I'd be looking at an eD A2-300.
So, you would recommend a 12" 200W sub over a 15" 400W?

Not flaming. Just asking.:)
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
So, you would recommend a 12" 200W sub over a 15" 400W?

Not flaming. Just asking.:)
The room size is 2600cuft and the usage is 70% movies. 28hz is fine for most (but not all) music but for movies I like deeper bass than the Jamo offers. Yes I'd rather see the OP buy an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus or a Hsu VTF-2 but that's over budget and the little eD should be able to handle 2600cuft and do it more effectively than the 10" Hsu or eD that the OP was originally looking at.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
The room size is 2600cuft and the usage is 70% movies. 28hz is fine for most (but not all) music but for movies I like deeper bass than the Jamo offers. Yes I'd rather see the OP buy an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus or a Hsu VTF-2 but that's over budget and the little eD should be able to handle 2600cuft and do it more effectively than the 10" Hsu or eD that the OP was originally looking at.
Going low is one thing. Moving air with power is another.

Common sense tells me the Jamo would smoke that ed. At some point, common sense is going to have to kick-in.

Again, just a little too much ID brand BS for me.

Nothing personal.;)
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Going low is one thing. Moving air with power is another.

Common sense tells me the Jamo would smoke that ed. At some point, common sense is going to have to kick-in.
At 20hz? :p
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I have to agree with Zumbo, the ED subs might have more output at 20 hz, but I can't believe it will be punching as hard or as smooth as the Jamo sub above the 20s. For someone who listens to music mostly, I think it would be a more sensible choice.
 
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
The room size is 2600cuft and the usage is 70% movies. 28hz is fine for most (but not all) music but for movies I like deeper bass than the Jamo offers. Yes I'd rather see the OP buy an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus or a Hsu VTF-2 but that's over budget and the little eD should be able to handle 2600cuft and do it more effectively than the 10" Hsu or eD that the OP was originally looking at.
The D6 Sub is THX Ultra cert & is excellent for movies. It would not be certified Ultra if performance was only down to 28hz.

Please see my post/comments that I linked to the AVS Forum thread about the D6 in the $500 sub thread. It's post #9 here: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73447 The guy loved it for music, but thought movies were lacking. Turns out it was his placement and settings after another forum member came over to help him do a proper setup.

I believe that the Jamo website specs as well as the Amazon specs are incorrect. As is Vanns website, which is calling the D6 THX Select. I remember the Jamo product sheets and website showing both he D6 & D7 having identical specs except for he Ultra2 designation which, at the time these were released, was supposed to show a "theater only" speaker, ULTRA, & a theater + music product as ULTRA2. Perhaps I'm recalling that wrong since the Ultra cert has been gone for so long, but I'm almost certain. Regardless, we've used these a bunch in previous systems and it's a beast of a product. I'm excited to get our hands on the new D 600 SUB which is a 15" Ultra2 @ 1600 watts.

Lastly, this is where just reading a mfg specs & not using sense can end up hurting you. Manufacturers, particularly ID companies, know most people will buy on spec.... No different than someone at BB walking through looking at receiver fact tags for the one with the highest watts. As Zumbo eluded to, it does not make sense that a 12" 200 watt sub would realistically hit 20hz to a usable degree in any sizable room. Please look at the post I referenced above and click through to the AVSF link I listed there. They post graphs of two D6 in a 3500 cubic foot room.

It doesn't matter to me which one anybody decides to go with, but to say that the D6 is not designed for movies does not do the product justice, so I wanted to add some food for thought. Thank you for reading!
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Lastly, this is where just reading a mfg specs & not using sense can end up hurting you. Manufacturers, particularly ID companies, know most people will buy on spec.... No different than someone at BB walking through looking at receiver fact tags for the one with the highest watts. As Zumbo eluded to, it does not make sense that a 12" 200 watt sub would realistically hit 20hz to a usable degree in any sizable room.


With that being said, I'm sure the D6 is a quality sub, and something definitely worth looking at under it's current closeout pricing. The guy's graphs on avs looked pretty good.
 
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic


With that being said, I'm sure the D6 is a quality sub, and something definitely worth looking at under it's current closeout pricing. The guy's graphs on avs looked pretty good.
Regarding the graph....

- How big of an area will it perform that low in?

- What happens to this sub above 40hz (where a sub's performance is just as critical) in a large room? The Jamo set that was done on AVS was in a 3500 cubic foot area. HUGE!
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
I dunno. Could always email eD and ask :D The graph still shows more than respectable levels at 40hz, though...103db+.

I guess our definition of huge differs, since I don't think 3500cu ft is all that big. Not much larger than my bedroom :)

I would certainly consider the Jamo, if the prices stay that low when I have the money available for a sub. Too many things going on for me right now.
 
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
I dunno. Could always email eD and ask :D The graph still shows more than respectable levels at 40hz, though...103db+.

I guess our definition of huge differs, since I don't think 3500cu ft is all that big. Not much larger than my bedroom :)

I would certainly consider the Jamo, if the prices stay that low when I have the money available for a sub. Too many things going on for me right now.
To give an idea, a 15' x 30' x 8' room is 3600 cubic feet. That's a very large space for a theater, let alone a bedroom!

And the AVS guy's graph was from 2 D6 subs to be fair. The way a room can swallow up bass is wayyyy underrated when looking at sub specs. It's tough to find a reasonable standard to compare things from.
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Yeah. I think I misremembered my bedroom size. Probably a lot closer 2500 cu ft :D
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
To give an idea, a 15' x 30' x 8' room is 3600 cubic feet. That's a very large space for a theater, let alone a bedroom!

And the AVS guy's graph was from 2 D6 subs to be fair. The way a room can swallow up bass is wayyyy underrated when looking at sub specs. It's tough to find a reasonable standard to compare things from.
My bedroom is 3000cuft (high ceiling) and the A2-300 is the sub that eD recommended for me. A $400 sub that hits 105db at 20hz is pretty decent anyway you look at it. I wound up with a different (and much more expensive) product because I needed something with smaller footprint but they felt it was a good choice for the room.

I'll happily admit that the Jamo looks very-very interesting at that price and I'd love to listen to one. If the OP were looking for a pure music sub it might be an wonderful choice but I'm not sure I'm buying into the theory that the manufacturer doesn't know enough about their own products to get the specs right on their website - and frequency response specs do matter with a subwoofer. It either plays flat to X hertz at Y volume or it doesn't. It really sounds like the buyer would be forced into buying an EQ solution and may wind using up much of that amplifier power trying to force it to play flat down to acceptable depths. My ULS-15 uses built-in EQ to do just that. The Jamo may work out for the OP and I'll take your word that it's awesome but I'm curious how far down that output is at 20hz (~10db?). It may also be a matter of different tastes. There are those here on Audioholics that see very little use for 20hz bass - I'm not in that camp, not for movies. Anyway the nice thing is that the OP has a couple of good choices.
 
P

phishphan

Audioholic Intern
Hey All,

So I just took delivery of my HSU VTF-1 today and I've got it set up.

I've got is connected to my subwoofer out port on my receiver. Now I just have a frequency question.

I have my receiver set to auto-format decode so it's picking up my two speakers and the sub as I'm still 2.1 at the moment.

I have four options to choose from in my bass & treble menu.

Treble
-6 to +6
1.0 kHz to 10.0 kHz

Bass
-6 to +6
99 Hz to 1.0 kHz

Right now I have the volume dial on the Hsu turned about halfway up and the crossover override is off per their directions since I'm using the sub out connection from the receiver.

So any advice on the setting shown above? I try to tweak them but I don't know what I'm looking for exactly and am having a hard time discerning the difference.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Just for the record, I don't call ANY company and ask them what I should buy.:rolleyes:

All this fuss about ID brand specs.
 
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