Basement Home Theatre Recos?

[iamcdn]

Hi all, after being a jerk and stealing bruther's thread on in-ceiling speakers, it was appropriately suggested I start my own thread. So here goes. A copy and past from the other thread. I'm a newbie, so apologies for any breach of etiquette and overall ignorance. Hope to learn as much as I can. So here goes; I posed the question:

ITI,

Sorry to threadjack but I was wondering if you would ever recommend in-ceiling L/C/R as you described above over in-wall L/C/R design. We're redoing our basement and today was the first I had heard of this all in-ceiling design.

Response...

It all depends on the room and budget. If you describe your space, design, screen type and screen size, budget, etc. one way or the other could make more or less sense.

It's tough to say... "Yes, way A is better than way B" without knowing the context of the project and your goals. There are some incredible in-ceiling LCR speakers and there are some also-ran look alikes from companies trying to peddle speakers.

If given the option to do whatever I wanted in my own fictional room, then I would say the traditional LCR layout is best. BUT, if that would cause aesthetics of the room to be altered or would cause installation issues THAT'S when I would start to design alternative layouts (like a traditional L/R and an in-ceiling center, for example). Feel free to describe as much as you can and I (& prob others) will make recommendations!

As an example, I would recommend this to anyone looking for a top shelf in-ceiling LCR system: LINK I CAN'T POST UNTIL I HAVE MORE POSTS

BUT.... This is actually better and litterally 1/2 the money ($1500 for all three where the in-ceiling from the same company is $3,000 for 3): ANOTHER LINK

The difference is: One is designed for a special application/install and the other is a traditional, straight forward design. What's funny is that the $500 PD-6LCRi linked above is a much much better speaker than the model "above" it, the $800 SA-200. IMO it is one of the biggest values in speakers today.

Hope some of this helps!

Anyone else with any suggestions?

Thanks

 

[iamcdn]

Here is my basement plan

Thanks for the quick reply ITI. I'll try my best to describe our basement living/rec room for you.

- The room is 12 feet wide and 30 feet long.
- It's going to be one open room where the seating will be at about 15 feet from the far wall (i.e. middle of the room), where there will likely be a >= 60" LCD or Plasma.
- Behind the seating is just open rec area.
- There will be a drop ceiling and cork flooring
- Drywall over basement concrete

Anyway, I was looking at Paradigm AMS LCR vs Def Tech UIW RLS II or III's. But then one of the local places suggested doing the LCR with Def Tech in-ceiling UIW 83 instead of in-walls. I wasn't sure and googled only to come up with this thread.

I'm leaning towards the front in-walls.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

TIA

 

[AVRat]

You weren't being a jerk, it happens from time to time. BTW, welcome to the site, hope we can help. I hope you don’t mind me adding the other posts as well to keep it together in this thread.

OK, I bolded a major concern with in-ceiling LCRs that I see right off the bat.

In-ceiling LCRs, good ones anyway, can be heavy. So in a drop ceiling there are a few challenges presented.

1: Being able to secure the speaker to the metal grid and the tile so that the grid, not the tile supports the weight. This is easier to do with the rears if they need to be in-ceiling because they tend to be lighter and have smaller cutouts.

2: Depending on your ceiling tile it can be tough to make a seal between the flange & the tile. That's important on architectural speakers.

- I assume you are framing around your basement? Just doing straight up drywall over concrete is not going to work for in-walls because they need a stud cavity.

I have speaker recommendations different from what you listed, but I am not sure of what your choices are so of the two I would definitely say to do the Def Tech UIW RLS III over the II if your budget will allow. The bigger drivers will do well in such a long space.

For what it's worth: From my experience with it, I do not care for Pardigm speakers in general. After hearing one of the best they have to offer in the S8 I have no desire to investigate the line further down. I thought it was just awful. We've had clients who've had Paradigm's other lines of speakers and I've always been really underwhelmed. To me, Pardaigm has become the Polk Audio of Canada.

Hope some of this helps!

Thanks again ITI,

Yes, the basement will be framed as we need the space to insulate. I'm trying to get as much info as possible as we meet with our contractor and draftman tomorrow.

I have only heard good things about the Def Techs. I would be willing to listen to other recommendations. The great part about modern day is we can always find products online and get them shipped here.

I appreciate the opinion on the Paradigms too.

iamcdn, I'd like to offer 2 suggestions:
1. Start your own fresh thread to keep things easier to track. You could copy over the already discussed posts to get it started.
2. Similar recent discussion since you're in the planning stage. http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72950

Have you had a chance to check the link I posted? If so, any response? You could do a very nice HT setup with that room length. In your ~30’ length, the acoustic sweet spots are about 10’-12’ from the front/rear walls. A mid-room listening position is in a null area for acoustics. Are in-room speakers an option? The one problem with in-walls is the center speaker. Many of the manufacturers’ in-wall center speakers don’t fit within a standard stud bay in its horizontal orientation. And with a wall-mounted plasma, a smaller 2-way/driver may be positioned too high/low. One well regarded manufacturer’s product that would work is Atlantic Technology. http://store.audioholics.com/product/2977/25/atlantic-technology-iwts-155-lcr-in-wall-speaker

Btw, how high is the ceiling? And it may help to know what you might be looking at budget wise.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

 

[iamcdn]

Thanks AVrat. I just took a lot at your link and I'm not entirely sure yet, it's all a little overwhelming. I am thinking $5-$7k cdn I think including receiver but not the television.

Also, I just rechecked the basement and the room is 14 ft wide, 7'9" to the finished ceiling and 30 feet long. I'm thinking the seating will be closer to 12 feet from the TV. I've thought about projector but the room will be quite light during the day so I am thinking LCD or possibly Plasma.

We like the idea of in wall and in ceiling for aesthetics, just our preference. And since this will be our first good HT we won't know what we're missing.

Thanks again.

 

[iamcdn]

Oh, and since we are demoing the basement and starting fresh with the construction we can probably stud the room in a way to fit a wider horizontal center. I will check with our contractor though.

 

[AVRat]

Oh, and since we are demoing the basement and starting fresh with the construction we can probably stud the room in a way to fit a wider horizontal center. I will check with our contractor though.

I thought about that as well since it shouldn’t be a load bearing wall but forgot to mention it. Maybe even think about 4 x 4 studs there as well if you’ll be wall mounting the display. While we’re talking about that wall framing design, the DT UIW RLS II is an excellent option but requires at least 29” between studs. You’ll also want stud bays to accommodate the L/R at about 10’ apart. Since the viewing/listening area won’t have a close proximity rear wall, I think a 5.2 setup will be sufficient. I would place the surrounds either in-wall (side walls facing each other) about 3’ behind the LP or in-ceiling same distance behind about 12’ apart. With the drop tile ceiling, I’d more inclined toward the in-walls.

For the subs, I’d consider dual SVS PB12-NSDs to even out the bass response in the room. http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/box-subwoofers-c-1.html

For the receiver, I’m big on the Denon 4311 because of its Audyssey suite but the Onkyo 3/5008 also have it and the Yamaha 2/3000s are good options as well.

On the display, Panasonic as I understand it will have 3 options this year for their 65” plasmas which most around here still prefer.

 

[iamcdn]

I thought about that as well since it shouldn’t be a load bearing wall but forgot to mention it. Maybe even think about 4 x 4 studs there as well if you’ll be wall mounting the display. While we’re talking about that wall framing design, the DT UIW RLS II is an excellent option but requires at least 29” between studs. You’ll also want stud bays to accommodate the L/R at about 10’ apart. Since the viewing/listening area won’t have a close proximity rear wall, I think a 5.2 setup will be sufficient. I would place the surrounds either in-wall (side walls facing each other) about 3’ behind the LP or in-ceiling same distance behind about 12’ apart. With the drop tile ceiling, I’d more inclined toward the in-walls.

For the subs, I’d consider dual SVS PB12-NSDs to even out the bass response in the room. http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/box-subwoofers-c-1.html

For the receiver, I’m big on the Denon 4311 because of its Audyssey suite but the Onkyo 3/5008 also have it and the Yamaha 2/3000s are good options as well.

On the display, Panasonic as I understand it will have 3 options this year for their 65” plasmas which most around here still prefer.

Much appreciated AVRat...exactly what I was hoping for.

 

[AVRat]

I should have also mentioned sub placement as well, since you may want to plan for all the in-wall wiring needs. Subs basically use coax cable with RCA connections, not speaker wire. http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/multiple-subwoofer-setup-calibration-1