Trying to match a new AVR to my current speaker setup...need advice

[mannetti21]

I've been seriously considering upgrading my current AVR (Onkyo TX-SR601) and was looking at the 708 and the 808. Reasons being HDMI supports, network support, new audio processors, auto-calibration, etc.

Compared to the 601 with 85watts/per channel, I like the extra power of the 808 (135wpc) vs the 708 (110wpc), especially since all these receivers are rated with only 2 channels driven....and I will do at least 50% of my listening in 5.1-7.2 modes. However, I'm wondering if the 808 is going to be too much receiver for my current mixed/matched speakers. I've slowly, and in some ways unintentionally, acquired the following speakers through holiday sales and from friends who upgraded to other options. See below for specs.

Would love to hear some suggestions on what receiver would best match up with my current gear and still leave a bit of headroom. Thanks!




Fronts: Sapphire ST2 towers

Center: The Speaker Company RC-1 (scroll down about halfway on the page for specs)

Surrounds: Insignia NS-B2111 6.5in 2-way x 4 (although only using 2 right now)

Sub(s): The Speaker Company T300 Dual 10" Woofers

...also have an old 120watt 12in Sony sub that I go back and forth between using in-line on the opposite side of the room for dual subs.


P.S. Sorry, links to the speaker specs won't work because of too few posts.

 

[mannetti21]

Here are the specs without the links...

Sapphire ST2 towers

Type: 3-way Bass Reflex Floorstanding
Woofer(s): 1 x 10” side-firing paper coated woofer
Midrange Driver(s): 2 x 5.25"" Aluminum
Tweeter Type: 1 x 1" HiCell High Efficiency Dome
Frequency Range 30 Hz- 20Khz +/- 3 db
Sensitivity 93 db
Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended power 15-150 watts continuous
Acoustic Design Rear Vented Bass Reflex
Crossover 12 db @ 150 Hz woofer
18db @ 3000 Hz tweeter
Size 44"H x 6.5"W x 15.2"D
Weight 54.1 lbs.
Bi-wire capable
Cabinet Sleeve 18 mm MDF
Baffle front 30 mm MDF

RC-1 Center channel:

Two-way center channel speaker with two 5.25″ polypropylene woofers and 3/4″ silk-dome tweeter.
Sensitivity: 89 dB
Impedance: 8 ohms
Power handling: 10-100 watts
65 Hz to 20,000 Hz


Insignia surrounds:

Tweeter Size 1" Silk Dome
Subwoofer 6-1/2"
Maximum Power Handling 120W
Frequency Response 50Hz - 20kHz
Sensitivity 90dB
Impedance 8 ohms
Subwoofer Driver Carbon fiber
Connector Type Binding post
Product Weight 13.3 lbs.
Product Depth 12-1/8"
Speaker type Bass-reflex


TheSpeakerCompany T300 sub:

Type: 10" Powered Subwoofer (x2)
Woofer(s): Two 10” (25.4cm), side firing
Cone Material: Aluminum
Driver Surround: Rubber
Port: Front Slot
Power Modes: On / Off / Auto Sensing / Standby
Inputs: Speaker Level, 2ch RCA, LFE RCA
Amplifier Type: BASH - Class D
Dynamic Power: 1200 Watts
Peak Power: 600 Watts
RMS Power: 300 Watts
Frequency Response: 19 -150Hz +/- 3dB
Crossover Frequency: Variable Low Pass Filter 50Hz-150Hz @ 18dB/oct
Width Height Depth: W14 1/2” H15 1/4” D18 1/2"
Weight per speaker: 36 lbs

 

[AVRat]

How's the 601 performing for you power wise? If it's sufficient, then perhaps the 708 is all you need. I don't know all the feature differences between 7/808, but the power difference between the 601/808 is only about 2dB and the weight difference between the 601,708/808 is ~13lbs. which generally means a more robust amp section/power supply.

 

[mannetti21]

Thanks for the reply.

As far as power, I would say the 601 is doing a fair job. However, I do feel that my music is lacking a bit of punch unless I really turn up the volume. Not sure if this is more speaker related vs. power related, but I would expect a bit more performance from the speakers.

I'd be interested to see what others have to say about any differences, outside of the listed specs, between the 708 and 808.

The one thing that has me hesitant on either the 708 or 808 is that I've read a few places that these receivers fall off significantly with 7 channels driven...one article even went as far as to say the 808 produced 29.9watts per channel when driving all 7 speakers.

 

[PENG]

I'd be interested to see what others have to say about any differences, outside of the listed specs, between the 708 and 808.

The one thing that has me hesitant on either the 708 or 808 is that I've read a few places that these receivers fall off significantly with 7 channels driven...one article even went as far as to say the 808 produced 29.9watts per channel when driving all 7 speakers.

I don't want to hype up the weight differences between different brands but if the Onkyo 808 is 13 lbs heavier than the 708 then I would say the 808 is a better choice for your big towers and the not too sensitive center speaker.

Do you listen to 5.1 rock concerts a lot? If you mainly listen to stereo CDs and 5.1 jazz and classical music then don't listen too much to those who told you the importance of the all channel driven ratings. I would take receivers such as Yamaha that offer good 2 channel rating than those such as HK that offers ACD ratings as per specs but just a little more in 2 channel driven situations. Music signals are typically (there are exceptions) varying in magnitude, not constant. I don't care about that 29.9W in ACD but it tells me in 1, 2, 3 channle driven situations the 808 may give you much more.

If your goal is to add an external amplifier sooner or later than this becomes a moot point as the 708 also has 7.1 pre-outs. In that case just make your choice base on your feature needs and price.

 

[zieglj01]

Take a look at the refurbish 808 - a good price
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR808/Onkyo/TX-NR808-7.2-Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

 

[mannetti21]

I don't want to hype up the weight differences between different brands but if the Onkyo 808 is 13 lbs heavier than the 708 then I would say the 808 is a better choice for your big towers and the not too sensitive center speaker.

Do you listen to 5.1 rock concerts a lot? If you mainly listen to stereo CDs and 5.1 jazz and classical music then don't listen too much to those who told you the importance of the all channel driven ratings. I would take receivers such as Yamaha that offer good 2 channel rating than those such as HK that offers ACD ratings as per specs but just a little more in 2 channel driven situations. Music signals are typically (there are exceptions) varying in magnitude, not constant. I don't care about that 29.9W in ACD but it tells me in 1, 2, 3 channle driven situations the 808 may give you much more.

If your goal is to add an external amplifier sooner or later than this becomes a moot point as the 708 also has 7.1 pre-outs. In that case just make your choice base on your feature needs and price.

Thanks for the reply, I'm really trying to come to a decision and have some more things that I'd like some input on.

I was actually just about to ask specifically about the 13lb weight difference...going from 110W to 135W doesnt seem like it would result in a 13lbs difference...so what exactly makes for the significant increase in size/weight in the 808?

As for the type of listening I do, I would estimate 50% TV/Movies/PS3 games (shooter/sports games) and 50% Music (Hip-Hop/R&B and Rock). My music is mostly in FLAC/MP3/CD format. I don't currently own many 5.1 music tracks.

Really appreciate all the help thus far and looking forward to some more great advice.

 

[zumbo]

There is not an avr on the market with too much power.

 

[zieglj01]

As zumbo said, don't worry about too much power.

If you find a good deal on the 808 - I would buy it. I don't
worry much about weight - I only want a receiver that can
do the job. My only concern about the Onkyo, is that it needs
room to breathe - they tend to get hot. I prefer Marantz and
Yamaha receivers.

 

[zumbo]

Just for the record, I do Yamaha.

And, I would do it again. And, again.

 

[mannetti21]

As zumbo said, don't worry about too much power.

If you find a good deal on the 808 - I would buy it. I don't
worry much about weight - I only want a receiver that can
do the job. My only concern about the Onkyo, is that it needs
room to breathe - they tend to get hot. I prefer Marantz and
Yamaha receivers.

Right now, the best price I'm finding for a new 808=$795 and the 708=$550. I'm having a hard time justifying almost $250 more for 25watts more per channel.

Which brings me back to weight...what else is responsible for an additional 13lbs? Is there any other difference in the internals that isn't blatantly listed in the specs?

 

[zieglj01]

Right now, the best price I'm finding for a new 808=$795 and the 708=$550. I'm having a hard time justifying almost $250 more for 25watts more per channel.

Which brings me back to weight...what else is responsible for an additional 13lbs? Is there any other difference in the internals that isn't blatantly listed in the specs?

I can not break down the insides of the Onkyo's - mainly, it comes
down to power transformers and body construction. More weight
does not guarantee better performace. The 808 will bring you more
power in the front 3 channels - both have power drop offs in the
surround modes. With your speakers, it is hard to justify the extra
$250 cost. If you buy the refurbish 808 from AC4L - then that looks
like a good deal.

 

[zumbo]

.01)IMO, a refurb is not a good deal.

.02)IMO, 13lbs is not added weight in the body of the unit.

Just my .02.

Probably added weight within the unit.

 

[zieglj01]

The heatsink will also add to the weight - I missed that one.
I have had good luck with refurbs - It all comes down to the
buyer.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:05c2J4w5mPQJ:www.audioholics.com/buying-guides/how-to-shop/av-receivers-buying-guide+audioholics+build+quality+of+receivers&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the reply, I'm really trying to come to a decision and have some more things that I'd like some input on.

I was actually just about to ask specifically about the 13lb weight difference...going from 110W to 135W doesnt seem like it would result in a 13lbs difference...so what exactly makes for the significant increase in size/weight in the 808?

As for the type of listening I do, I would estimate 50% TV/Movies/PS3 games (shooter/sports games) and 50% Music (Hip-Hop/R&B and Rock). My music is mostly in FLAC/MP3/CD format. I don't currently own many 5.1 music tracks.

Really appreciate all the help thus far and looking forward to some more great advice.

Let me read up on the stuff on the Onkyo site first. After that I may be able to give you my educated guess.

 

[mannetti21]

Let me read up on the stuff on the Onkyo site first. After that I may be able to give you my educated guess.

thanks, looking forward to seeing if you find any info. I've searched multiple sites and can't seem to find any more detailed specs than what is listed on the Onkyo site.

 

[PENG]

thanks, looking forward to seeing if you find any info. I've searched multiple sites and can't seem to find any more detailed specs than what is listed on the Onkyo site.

Since both are Onkyo lower mid range AVR I would say the 13 lbs weight differences are due to:

- The 808 has a much larger enclosure, that means more steel=more weight.
- The 808 power specs is approx. 20% higher, so it likely has a larger transformer, more capacitance, larger output devices etc. Transformers are heavy so the transformer in the 808 could be a few lbs heavier.
- The 808 will also likely have larger heat sinks, and if they are made of steel then that adds weight also.
- There is a possibility (just a possibility) that the 708 may not have much heat sink at all but rely on a fan for cooling, and the 808 has a much larger enclosure so Onkyo may skip the fan and use heat sinks exclusively, in that case the heat sink may have substantial weight. Again, on this point I am purely guessing, both of them may or may not have a fan.

The 808 is definitely going to get you about 20% more power but that may be hardly noticeable especially if you are going to be listening to mostly two channel music. So if you want to stick with Onkyo, the 708 seems like a better fit for you. The $250 you save now can make it easier for you to add a two channel external amp. That's when you may gain some real meaningful power.

 

[mannetti21]

Since both are Onkyo lower mid range AVR I would say the 13 lbs weight differences are due to:

- The 808 has a much larger enclosure, that means more steel=more weight.
- The 808 power specs is approx. 20% higher, so it likely has a larger transformer, more capacitance, larger output devices etc. Transformers are heavy so the transformer in the 808 could be a few lbs heavier.
- The 808 will also likely have larger heat sinks, and if they are made of steel then that adds weight also.
- There is a possibility (just a possibility) that the 708 may not have much heat sink at all but rely on a fan for cooling, and the 808 has a much larger enclosure so Onkyo may skip the fan and use heat sinks exclusively, in that case the heat sink may have substantial weight. Again, on this point I am purely guessing, both of them may or may not have a fan.

The 808 is definitely going to get you about 20% more power but that may be hardly noticeable especially if you are going to be listening to mostly two channel music. So if you want to stick with Onkyo, the 708 seems like a better fit for you. The $250 you save now can make it easier for you to add a two channel external amp. That's when you may gain some real meaningful power.

Makes sense...I hadn't been truly thinking about the actual weight of steel and the likelihood that the sinks are going to be a bit larger. Also, the 808 does indeed have dual fans, while the 708 does NOT.

Here's a look at the internals:

808

708

I'm such a number oriented person that it becomes extremely hard for me to give up extra power rating...Luckily, I just found the 808 brand new from an authorized dealer for $600 Now it's hard to justify NOT paying an extra $50 for the 808 over the 708. lol

 

[zieglj01]

Since both are Onkyo lower mid range AVR I would say the 13 lbs weight differences are due to:

- The 808 has a much larger enclosure, that means more steel=more weight.
- The 808 power specs is approx. 20% higher, so it likely has a larger transformer, more capacitance, larger output devices etc. Transformers are heavy so the transformer in the 808 could be a few lbs heavier.
- The 808 will also likely have larger heat sinks, and if they are made of steel then that adds weight also.
- There is a possibility (just a possibility) that the 708 may not have much heat sink at all but rely on a fan for cooling, and the 808 has a much larger enclosure so Onkyo may skip the fan and use heat sinks exclusively, in that case the heat sink may have substantial weight. Again, on this point I am purely guessing, both of them may or may not have a fan.

The 808 is definitely going to get you about 20% more power but that may be hardly noticeable especially if you are going to be listening to mostly two channel music. So if you want to stick with Onkyo, the 708 seems like a better fit for you. The $250 you save now can make it easier for you to add a two channel external amp. That's when you may gain some real meaningful power.

It must be your writing talent - I thought I pretty much gave these
answeres in #12 and #14. I failed English any way - Good Luck OP.

 

[zumbo]

Heat sinks are aluminum.

IF.