Starting over

[discreet01]

Had a ton of water damage and have an oportunity to start over my Home Theatre. My basement is aprox. 12' wide x 22' long. most walls are brick but do have some panels that are drywalled. I have to replace TV, hoping to go at least 65" and receiver and speakers. My initial thought was in ceiling, but after reading a few threads I'm thinking perhaps not. I would like to design 90% movie and tv and 10% music. I can post some pics if it helps. Any advice would be apreciated as well as I'm canadian which means that I may not be able to get same exact products as mentioned. Looking to spend aprox $8000.00. I was also todl that this is the time of year for model changes, I'm not in a big hurry but would like to start purchasing in the next week so crue can start remodelling. I do have 12" cerwin vega powered sub and 6" rears that I could still use, but will also consider replacing.

Thanks

 

[AVRat]

Would a front projection setup be a consideration? Based on the 22’ length, the acoustic sweetspot is in the 14’-15’ distance from the front wall so you’d want a screen ~108”-122” wide. You could easily fit an 8' wide screen, with in-room speakers, and wider if an AT screen and/or in-wall fronts can be accommodated. Being in Canada, I'm guessing that a decent setup could be done for less than C$3500 (Epson 8700, JVC HD250?), especially if you're a DIYer. That'll leave plenty for the receiver/speaks.

Based on this concept, an Axiom setup consisting of 3x M22 In-Walls, Pair QS4 Surrounds, Pair M2 On-Wall Rears, & EP500 Subwoofer for under C$3000 leaving $1500 for a decent receiver.

 

[discreet01]

Thank you. I have considered going with a screen , but again was discouraged buy the local stores. I've been told that once you go plasma that you would want to stay plasma, that I would be disappointed with anything else. Are the new 3D tv's upto par?

 

[discreet01]

Pretty sure I've decided on Pan 65VT30 (should come out in next couple of weeks) Now receivers. speakers. Stay away from ceiling? still today? in wall better?)

 

[just-some-guy]

Thank you. I have considered going with a screen , but again was discouraged buy the local stores.

i have seen many projector displays at the retailers around here. most at higher end stores. they all looked like crap, so don't use that as typical performance.

and, imo, the 65 is, well, i replaced mine with a projector shortly after buying it.
get a projector with a 120" screen, and don't look back. you will thank me later.

 

[AVRat]

I've been told that once you go plasma that you would want to stay plasma, that I would be disappointed with anything else.

And when it comes to HOME THEATER, BIGGER IS BETTER, or it’s just a room with a TV. I will stipulate that I am using a 75” Mits display at 8.25’ and am happy as this is about the best I can do. It’d be a shame to not take advantage of an opportunity like this, but it is your choice/decision in the end.

Well, that Panny is going to run you at least C$4000 which would put you in the ballpark for the JVC HD250. The PQ for each is excellent. The only downside from the plasma would be the brightness, the upside would be a screen approximately 4 times larger. Theaters usually spec around 12fl brightness. With the JVC, a 115” wide 1.2 gain screen, and 15” projection distance, you’ll achieve about 20fl. Unfortunately, I don’t know the brightness of the plasma.

With the 65” plasma, you’ll need a viewing distance around 7’ for the best cinematic experience. The response regarding 3-D is that the best effect is realized using larger screens and a wider viewing angle, with 65” being a bare minimum.

Stay away from in-ceilings for the front three speakers, for the surrounds they’re okay and then maybe only the rears in a 7.1 setup. In-wall/ceilings are much better these days and using in-walls up front would be fine, but in-rooms would still be preferred.

For the receiver, the Denon 991 seems like a good deal: http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/denon-denon-7-2-channel-hdmi-3d-networking-home-theatre-receiver-avr-991-avr-991/10151023.aspx?path=d6890310e57d45ab793d3d36f856917fen02

 

[yepimonfire]

one problem with in walls is you can't angle the front left and right speakers to acheive proper imaging, this has a HUGE effect on apparent width and depth of the sound stage imo. also, since inwalls only function correctly once in the wall if you place them in a nasty acoustic spot of the room you're stuck with it being there, you can't demo different areas of the room with them before hand. to me both of these things make in-walls for the front stage especially an absolute big no to me, for surrounds it won't make too big of a difference. also the only time i would even consider using in ceiling speakers is for the height channels. inceiling's would make for great height channels.

 

[AVRat]

Here's what a guy, up in your neck of the woods, did with a room of similar size.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14012849#post14012849

 

[discreet01]

Thanks this is the kind of response I was hoping for although somewhat more confused but at least I have something to work with. Is the JVC HD250 3D tv? I've tried to look online, had great reviews as far as picture quality but nothing indicating 3D, and well since I made the mistake of telling my kids about possibly getting a 3D tv they are excited. still not sure about the speakers, I've ruled out the front being in ceiling. But is inwall ok? or should I go for cabinets which the wife doesn't really want. Can someone explain to me in easy terms the differrence between 5.1 and 7.1, what do the extra speakers do? will I notice a big difference? what size gauge wire should I use for the inceiling rears? Also I just re read one response and I think I agree with not being able to direct the front channels. So that being said with the price range given, what speakers should I be looking for?

 

[AVRat]

No, the HD250 is not 3D capable. That feature starts at the JVC RS40/X3 (~US$4000) and there are only a small handful from all manufacturers in their upper tier products, this being the first year for 3D. Epson’s product hasn’t been released yet and Panasonic hasn’t announced a 3D projector yet. Some people are waiting to purchase/upgrade 3D projectors for the tech settle in. You can always go with a decent lower end PJ now and upgrade to a better 3D unit in a couple of years.

If you’re resigned to go with the plasma now (wall-mount?), you may still want to seriously consider planning/wiring for a PJ setup in the future. Some people even use an electric drop screen system in front of smaller displays for a dual purpose setup, TV for general viewing/gaming and the big screen for movies. If you plan on being in this house for awhile, it’s probably a good idea to discuss the options with your spouse.

Regarding 7.1: http://www.audioholics.com/education/surround-sound/7-1-surround-sound. You can get by with 5.1 as many people do. You just need to properly place your in-ceiling surrounds.

For speakers, there are a whole host of products to choose from: Aperion Audio, Axiom, B&W, Boston Acoustics, Definitive Technology, Energy, Infinity, JBL, KEF, Klipsch, Monitor Audio, NHT, Paradigm, Polk Audio, PSB. If you can, you need to listen to them to hear what sounds good to you. Some people find the Infinity Primus 363s to be a great bang/buck, but may not pass the WAF.

For speaker wiring at these distances, 14 gauge works fine.

Another HT setup in a room of similar size: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71416

Some pictures would be good, but you'll need a few more posts to add them. Just add a few more mumbo-jumbo posts here to get there.

 

[AVRat]

FYI, did some catch up on the new Panny displays and it looks like the 65VT30 won't be released until May/June time frame.

 

[discreet01]

Thanks I saw that but local dealer claims to be sooner who knows.

 

[discreet01]

well things aren't going well with thte wife, so I'm thinking of reg speakers incase I have to sell the house, recommendations?

 

[AVRat]

For the front 3, PSB Image T5/C5.

 

[jostenmeat]

This is a basement for crying out loud! Get a projector!

DIY, FTW!

Build a false wall for say $100. $30 in doug fir, maybe something similar for speaker cloth, eh, remaining $40 for some screws and hamburgers and beer. Secure it to ceiling and/or sidewalls with some big screws. I used 6" screws into floor and ceiling myself (two on both).

About $300 for the screen size that Rat was talking about, if you can make it with DIY Seymour fabric, and that's including the wood and material.

Build some speakers, at about $300 apiece, you can start comparing those to speakers that cost about $2000 apiece.

So, say you've never used a power tool in your life. You can hire someone to help build you these speakers and screen for a couple/few of days and still get a lot for your money, and that's not including any other friendly help you could get there in for free. You could pay that guy $1000, and still be saving a LOT of money. I mean, $1k is not even the savings you would get on the screen itself, let alone the speakers.

These are my opinions, and just avenues I think you should be aware of.

You can leave the speakers unfinished because they can all be hidden behind the wall.

The day you move and need these speakers exposed, you can then choose the stain, veneer, or whatever would fit the room the best.

JVC projectors, FTW. No idea how to DIY one.

Look up GO-NAD!'s build, for a basement theater build up in CA.

 

[discreet01]

Great advise. So you are saying for now, buy in wall speakers but build cabinet for them until I'm sure where I'm living. Will they still sound decent? Guys I really appreciate all the great advice I'm getting from this site, I really didn't expect this kind of response. I'm pretty handy so no problem building this stuff. And I'm hooked on the idea of 3D being even new playstation games are 3D, it's all my kids talk about, Suggestions on projector? I've looked up JVC and you need to add a module of some sort even to the higher end projectors. Just a thought.

 

[AVRat]

No, the DIY speakers JM is talking about is a regular speaker with its own specific design. There are kits where all you do is build the box.

The best 3D projectors to date, in your budget range, are the JVCs already mentioned which require an emitter and the glasses. There are some different options for glasses based on the screen being used. It has to do with the polarity capability of the screen.

 

[jostenmeat]

Great advise. So you are saying for now, buy in wall speakers but build cabinet for them until I'm sure where I'm living. Will they still sound decent?

No, I'm saying that if you build a "false wall" (just some most basic of framing about a few feet away from the front wall holding up the screen, and covered by acoustically transparent material) you can use any darn speakers you please. Of course if you go inwall, you don't need that space from front wall. However, you've got the space to do it.

And I'm hooked on the idea of 3D being even new playstation games are 3D, it's all my kids talk about, Suggestions on projector? I've looked up JVC and you need to add a module of some sort even to the higher end projectors. Just a thought.

JVC is awesome stuff, but if you don't control your light (I'm talking about the reflectivity of your walls ceiling floor, not just ambient light), then you might be spending for performance that you can't take advantage of.

But more importantly, are you sure you want your kids racking up hours so quickly gaming on a PJ? OMG, you will spoil them for life!!

You will also pay dearly for bulbs, possibly.

And if you care about video accuracy, you might be calibrating your display every month! Depends on how much the kids use it. Hm. Maybe the plasma is the better idea after all.

 

[son-yah-tive]

I like that you get to start over in the right size room. That's a great start right there. I won't go into what to purchase. You've already got a head start on that.