Energy RC-50's vs. Infinity Primus P363's

[jm78]

I know you don't want to hear it, but I'll voice my opinion anyways. In your situation, I would get the sub later and get the best 3.0 I could afford. Get some super cheap surrounds to make due if necessary.

Since you are interested in infinity primus sound, you could step up to revel m12 bookshelves and c12 center. I believe you might be able to make the budget. I haven't heard one person say that revels sound worse than primus, but hey I haven't heard the revels and you may end of feeling different as well.

By the way, I did own primus 362's and 350, they sounded very smooth, balanced, and unharsh.

 

[Melee]

So, what about if I buy 3x P363's and use them for the 3 Fronts. haha

What's funny is the P363 is actually CHEAPER than the PC351.

I could lay it horizontal in front of the tv. haha

I know you don't want to hear it, but I'll voice my opinion anyways. In your situation, I would get the sub later and get the best 3.0 I could afford. Get some super cheap surrounds to make due if necessary.

Since you are interested in infinity primus sound, you could step up to revel m12 bookshelves and c12 center. I believe you might be able to make the budget. I haven't heard one person say that revels sound worse than primus, but hey I haven't heard the revels and you may end of feeling different as well.

By the way, I did own primus 362's and 350, they sounded very smooth, balanced, and unharsh.

Hmm, why wouldn't I want to hear your opinion? lol I enjoy hearing everyone's opinion. In my experience, the more people that say you're making a smart choice, the more likely the chance is that it is true.

In reference to bookshelves, the only downside is I will have no sub. I'm fine with that, but without it I will need Towers to hit decently low frequencies. I'm sure that Bookshelves do fine, but I know there's no way that they can dig as deep as a Tower because of the vast difference in size. I'm afraid that now I'm basically limited to towers only because without the sub hitting the low frequencies, I need the towers to fill out the sound as much as possible. Thank You for the suggestion, though!

 

[jm78]

You could do 3 towers but your tv would need to be mounted to high. That would hurt my neck. Laying a tower sideways would probably sound bad.

Those revel m12's will hit a low frequency of 48hz compared to 38hz in p363's before 3db rolloff, that is not much worse than p363's. You will lose some sensitivity as well but the bookshelves will probably have less cabinet resonance and higher quality drivers, bass might get tighter as well.

I just found this review: http://www.soundstageav.com/onhifi/20060215.htm

It compares the revel m12 to energy rc-10. It appears revel m12's have very tight bass, excellent mids, and decent highs. RC-10's seemed to have better highs but worse mids and bass. After I got my primus, I was always wondering how revels would sound which may happen to you as well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You could do 3 towers but your tv would need to be mounted to high.

I don't think it's too high.

About 40" from the ground is fine with me, especially when you are sitting 12 ft back.

 

[GranteedEV]

My TV is about 36-40in off the ground. If my E55tos werent so tall i would definitely do triple towers.

still the pc351 center is a good one. just the sort i always recommend IIRC (3 way WTMW)

 

[jm78]

To each his own I guess. My 50" plasma is currently 36" off the floor, sitting 8-10 feet away, I would like it lower. Surely 3 matching towers should sound phenomenal but placement would be an issue too. The towers would perform best not up against the wall with room to breathe. 3 towers pushed forward 1-2 feet with a tv mounted on the wall doesn't look particularly attractive in my opinion. But for optimal sound, it is a winner.

 

[lsiberian]

I know you don't want to hear it, but I'll voice my opinion anyways. In your situation, I would get the sub later and get the best 3.0 I could afford. Get some super cheap surrounds to make due if necessary.

Since you are interested in infinity primus sound, you could step up to revel m12 bookshelves and c12 center. I believe you might be able to make the budget. I haven't heard one person say that revels sound worse than primus, but hey I haven't heard the revels and you may end of feeling different as well.

By the way, I did own primus 362's and 350, they sounded very smooth, balanced, and unharsh.

Not sure the Revels are really a step up. Many of the lines are rebranded Infinities as far as I can tell.

 

[GranteedEV]

Not sure the Revels are really a step up. Many of the lines are rebranded Infinities as far as I can tell.

They would certainly share drivers but revels use better crossover components and cabinet build quality.

 

[Melee]

Well, I don't know if I could find a way to fit the middle tower, then. The bottom of the tv is 32" off the ground, but it's on a tv stand. I don't know if it even has wall-mount capability since I don't see anything on the back of it to hook anything onto. However, I've never wall mounted a tv so I could be looking over it completely. lol

If I could wall mount the tv, I think 3 towers would look sick and be like $20 cheaper than the two towers + center. However, which would sound better between the two options?

I'm considering just getting a cheap 5.1 Receiver that has what I need without the bells and whistles and then just getting the 2x P363's for now and stick with 2.0 for a while. If I go that route, I can get those 3 for like $500 and have a spare $500 left over. From what I've read, 5.1 is as good if not better than 7.1 unless you have a large room so there's no need for me to upgrade anytime soon.

Decisions, Decisions. lol

 

[Melee]

Has anyone heard the Mirage OMD-5's? I've been reading a LOT of excellent things about them and they've definitely peaked my interest since they are extremely unique. Vann's has them on sale for $129 apiece. Would definitely like to hear some input on these. ^_^ Thanks!

 

[PENG]

I don't know about the RC-50 but I really like the RC-70. At the current insanely discounted price it is a much better buy than the well regarded Paradigm Studio 100. If your choice is between the RC-50 and the P363 with no sub then the P363 is a clear choice.

If a good sub is in the equation and you don't mind listening to 2 channel music with sub then I would go with the RC-50, assuming it has the same tweeter and mid range as the RC-70. Assuming the P363 is just a better looking version of the 362, it will give you well balanced sound while the RC-50 will likely (never heard them) struggle without the help of a nice sounding sub. Either way, you must have done your research thoroughly as IMHO you have picked out the best two for the money you are prepared to spend.

 

[KEW]

Has anyone heard the Mirage OMD-5's? I've been reading a LOT of excellent things about them and they've definitely peaked my interest since they are extremely unique. Vann's has them on sale for $129 apiece. Would definitely like to hear some input on these. ^_^ Thanks!

I have a pair and plan to use them for surrounds when I do set up a HT.
For music, some like 'em, some don't.
Generally, for music, I did not like the "omni directional" sound which sounded "wrong" to me for directional instruments like trumpet. although they did sound pretty good playing non-directional instruments such as piano or strings. That said, they are well built and use nice drivers with good detail.
I believe they will make very good surround speakers since you really don't want surround speakers to pinpoint the location of the surround sounds (as I understand it).
Here is a thread with some discussion if you have not found it:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70594&highlight=mirage+omd-5

 

[GranteedEV]

Generally, for music, I did not like the "omni directional" sound which sounded "wrong" to me for directional instruments like trumpet. although they did sound pretty good playing non-directional instruments such as piano or strings.

Hmm.. the linkwitz pluto uses omnipolar radiation in much of its passband, and has a very consistent timbre (only when properly placed.) He says it consistently sounds extremely lifelike, which he said was surprising to him.

I really want to hear a true "omni" speaker like the Plutos. Not to disrespect the mirages or anything. I know nothing about them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

However, which would sound better between the two options?

From what I've read, 5.1 is as good if not better than 7.1...

7.1 is total gimmick IMO - just like 3D video.

The front 3 speakers cover about 80%-90% of all the soundtracks, but we have 4 speakers in the back?

Vertical speakers will sound better than horizontal IMO. Speakers were MADE to stand vertically; otherwise, all the speakers would be laying horizontally. So having 3 vertical identical towers would sound better.

But I say stick with 2.0 right now and see how you like it.

Man, I didn't even buy any home theater stuff until I was a senior in college who saw the light at the end of the tunnel and was about to graduate.

 

[GranteedEV]

7.1 isnt a gimmick, although it is unnecessary. I am a firm beleiver in monopole surrounds as you might know, as dipole surrounds have too inconsistant response and lobing.

now the problem with monopoles is that for sound effects in movies they are too localizable which takes away immersion. 7.1 on the other hand keeps the surround from being localisable by spreading out the surround field, without resorting to fake dipole surround spaciousness. In fact i would actually run about 4 spaced speakers in a horizontal wall mounted array if I could, curving into the rear wall. That is three speakers in parallel on the surround channel plus 1 rear surround in a 7.1

A very robust pro amp could be used. I would use THX pm3 certified active monitors however off preouts. Just like the JBLs I suggested earlier.

effectively that would be 11.1 and yes i think heights and widths are a total gimmick.



But yeah, get the best 2.0 you could possi ly get before bothering with crap like this.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

7.1 on the other hand keeps the surround from being localisable by spreading out the surround field, without resorting to fake dipole surround spaciousness. In fact i would actually run about 4 spaced speakers in a horizontal wall mounted array if I could, curving into the rear wall. That is three speakers in parallel on the surround channel plus 1 rear surround in a 7.1

A very robust pro amp could be used. I would use THX pm3 certified active monitors however off preouts. Just like the JBLs I suggested earlier.

If you were in person I would roll my eyes at you like this and say R---------I-----------G------------H-----------------T.

I think I'm getting sleepy.

See you guys later...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[KEW]

Hmm.. the linkwitz pluto uses omnipolar radiation in much of its passband, and has a very consistent timbre (only when properly placed.) He says it consistently sounds extremely lifelike, which he said was surprising to him.

I really want to hear a true "omni" speaker like the Plutos. Not to disrespect the mirages or anything. I know nothing about them.

Like I said, the OMD-5'a are a some like 'em, some don't proposition. Rnatalli prefers them and I have no reason to say my opinion is anymore valid than his.
All I can say is what I experienced.

I have to say, I can't see how any design could get much more "omni" that the way the OMD series broadcasts sound. It really struck me as surreal when I happened to walk around 120° off axis and heard full range sound from both speakers the whole time. I don't mean surreal as in a "false" effect; just that is was foreign to my experience with speakers. Comparatively, the Bose 901's have plenty of directionality between their three planes of speaker surfaces (which gave them better imaging in my experience).

I did find the following on Linkwitz's site:

Unfortunately, the direct sound is maximally masked by the room sound and precise imaging is lost, unless the listening position is close to the speakers.

That is my complaint - "loss of imaging" (on directional instruments), and I did not (and realistically, would not likely) position the speakers as he describes, so the fix may be that simple.

To the OP, just in case you have thoughts of using these as mains, I do not feel their bass is adequate. It is good for a 5" (or 5.5"?) driver, but you would definitely miss the sub.

PS - It seems like the Pluto driver would have reduced output at 90° off-axis. What am I missing?

 

[GranteedEV]

keep in mind that the pluto is crossed extremely low... 1khz or lower!

it is omnidirectional up to around 3khz at which point it gets increasingly directional. that is still roughly 3 octaves more omni than most speakers, which start getting directional around 400hz or so!

 

[Melee]

Well, the Mirage's look nice but apparently without a Sub, they're disappointing due to lack of bass. Definitely an interesting concept, though, and a great design overall.

One cool idea, though, is to get 4x Mirage OMD-5's and ceiling mount them upside down as fronts and surrounds that way the omnidirectional sound is being dispersed in all directions without anything blocking it. It would look great and be much easier to place in my small room. However, will I be able to get away with putting holes in my ceiling in my apartment? lol And would it be acceptable if I got them with a smaller sealed sub like the Emotiva Ultra 10 to pair with them?

The Receiver is definitely out. I'm sure it is fine but without the need for MultEQ on the Sub (since I won't have one), there are much better options out there for me. If I hate it already, then it's only going to be worse a few months from now. lol

The only choices left to make now are:

- Whether to stick with 2.0 for now or go 5.0?

The PC351 has a nice price at $172 + $15 Shipping. Do you guys think I should go ahead and pick it up? I'm still trying to figure out why some people think the PC251 is a better option. lol It still makes no sense to me. ^_^

For the Surrounds, I still have no clue. I can get the P153's for $138 Shipped or the P163's for around $60 more.

For the Mirage's:

OMD-5 x2
OMDC-1 Center
Emotiva Ultra 10 Sub

*OR*

OMD-5 x4
Emotiva Ultra 10 Sub


After that, I'm looking for a cheap 5.1 Receiver that is decent. I'm thinking the Pioneer VSX-820-K would be nice? Or maybe something from Yamaha or Onkyo. Harman Kardon is still interesting to me with Dolby Volume, but I don't know if I can find anything of theirs in my cheap @ss price range. lol Denon I don't really want and Marantz I'm not sure about. They seem extremely similar to Denon so it would basically be like buying the same thing.

What do you think, my dudes? lol

 

[PENG]

The only choices left to make now are:

- Whether to stick with 2.0 for now or go 5.0?

It seems to me you do want the best for stereo music enjoyment so stick with 2.0.