Energy RC-50's vs. Infinity Primus P363's

[Melee]

My last thread was closed because it turned into an argument. lol

I still have a few more questions so I had to start a new thread.

With all things considered and the fact that I still have a few years of College left and I'm only working part time, money is slow coming in so putting myself on an expensive, lengthy upgrade path is not the best option for me. I had to save for a long while to be able to afford what I can now. It will probably be 2-3 years before I'm working full-time professionally so I can worry about getting a more expensive system then.

I have around $800 total to spend (not including the money for my Receiver) on speakers and it will probably be a while before I can afford to put much more than that into it as I need to buy a new computer soon.

With that in mind, I believe that the Energy RC-50's and Infinity Primus P363's are my best options. They seem to have the best sound quality in this price range and will allow me to either finish or almost finish a full 5.0 System with my budget.


These are the setups I could afford to purchase right now:


Energy:

RC-50's x2
RC-LCR

Infinity:

P363's x2
PC351
P163's x2


The main restrictions and limitations to consider are:


1) I can't have a Sub because I live in an apartment. I know I should just tell them to deal with it if I'm listening at reasonably loud levels, but it's just a lot of aggravation and headaches that I don't want to deal with.

SO! I will need a system that can handle its own bass for now. I understand that Towers are not going to be able to hit the low frequencies like a Subwoofer, but my Polk Monitor 70's and Monitor 40's were impressive with their bass so I'm assuming these should be satisfactory as well in that regard.

Are either of these going to be too weak to handle this on their own?


2) Music is the top priority. Of course, I want speakers that can handle movie watching and gaming as well, but musicality is more important above all else. I want wonderfully detailed, warm sound that is enveloping and enables the music to sound the way it was meant to. I'm hoping for it to sound like I'm there instead of being able to tell the music is passing through a speaker. I want to hear the crystal clear vocals, the crisp clash of cymbals, the liveliness of electric guitars and all of those things that make music so amazing.

I'm aware that I'm not buying $5,000 speakers so I don't expect an orgasm whenever I hear them. (lol) However, I do want the best performing speakers I can buy for the money.


IN CONCLUSION! (lol) How will these speakers compare to each other. I know the Energy's have FAR, FAR, FAR better build quality and aesthetics since they are real wood veneer, but what about in sound? That is by far the most important factor for me. There is a $200 Difference in Price between a pair of RC-50's and P363's so if there's equal sound quality, of course I'd rather save money. However, since the RC's used to be MUCH more expensive and Audiophile-Level Speakers, I have a hard time believing they should even compare in overall detail, clarity, and bass.

What do you guys think? I'm new to audio so the measurements for them would be helpful if you could post some and explain in English. I can't really find any reviews on the RC-50's (which is extremely surprising and annoying) so it's tough for me to compare them to the P363's accurately. Hopefully, there are at least several people who have heard them both that can break them down for me.

Thanks!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can't really find any reviews on the RC-50's (which is extremely surprising and annoying) so it's tough for me to compare them to the P363's accurately. Hopefully, there are at least several people who have heard them both that can break them down for me.

I'm a little reluctant because I don't want to say anything that may cause another thread to be closed.

One of my brothers is an electrical engineer who makes $140K a year, and he doesn't want to spend a lot of money either. He just wants a pair of clear musical speakers in 2.0 for music and movies without a sub, although he lives in a 4,000 sq ft home in Denver, CO.

Since there are no speaker measurements of the RC-50, you won't have any objective conclusions; all you will have are subjective opinions.

You can ask people what they think about the $22K Revel Salon2, $23K B&W 800D, $27K Wilson Audio Shasha, & $20K KEF 207/2, and you will get a bunch of different subjective opinions positve and negative - yes, negative opinions about $20K+ speakers!!!

You will get both positive and negative remarks regarding the RC-50, just like you will with the P363 and every single loudspeaker ever made.

Perhaps you need to buy from a seller who has a great return policy, like Amazon.com.

Then you could try a few brands and make the final conclusion yourself, because ultimately that is the ONLY conclusion you need.

Aperion also has a 30-day return policy.

I love Amazon, though.

 

[GranteedEV]

I know you're somewhat looking at a 5.0 set with a receiver but to me it sounds like you'll be most happy with a stereo pair of powered studio monitors. The

JBL LSR 6325

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR6325P

bass down to 70hz is plenty imho especially in your situation where deeper frequencies would just run you into trouble.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I know you're somewhat looking at a 5.0 set with a receiver but to me it sounds like you'll be most happy with a stereo pair of powered studio monitors. The

JBL LSR 6325

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR6325P

bass down to 70hz is plenty imho especially in your situation where deeper frequencies would just run you into trouble.

Seriously, though?

Are you trying to close another thread?

And besides, those are above his budget of $800/pr.

 

[GranteedEV]

price includes amps... no need for a receiver.

 

[billy p]

I know Peng, has auditioned the Energy RC at future shop on several occasion and owns a pair of 362's( I believe)...it would ne nice if he would chime in or maybe drop him a PM.... I'd take his word on it!

Not hard to figure out my choice between those 2....

 

[its phillip]

I can only find measurements of the P350, RC-10s, RC-LCR, & RC-70

I'll just assume that the RC-50s will measure similar to the RC-10 and RC-70, which means that the Infinitys will be flatter - the RCs shouldn't be considered a slouch though. The RC-50s are much more attractive than the P363, but I don't think the Infinitys are ugly either. You can get stellar deals on both speakers, so if you can, I'd try to audition them and see which one you like more.

Here are some measurements of the speakers if you want to look:
Infinity P360: http://www.stereophile.com/content/infinity-primus-360-loudspeaker-measurements
Energy RC-70 & RC-LCR: http://www.ultimateavmag.com/content/energy-reference-connoisseur-rc-70-surround-speaker-system-measurements
Energy RC-10: http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/energy_rc_10/

edit:
RC-50 measurements. Text is in italian though: http://www.energy-speakers.com/media/products/reviews-pdf/rc-50-audio-review-november-2005-italy.pdf

 

[Alex2507]

Regarding your choice of Infinity products I would down size the center to the PC251. I own a PC350 and believe that it is not an improvement over the smaller, less expensive and less complicated 2-way design of the PC251. Similarly with the surrounds I have the equivalent of the P153's. It is reported to have a smoother frequency response across the mid range, has a smaller form factor and is less expensive than the P163's.

Moving on to your thoughts on subs and apartments: I disagree there too. I live in a condo and have 2 subs. They are Infinity PS10's but since all things Infinity are junk I can barely hear them and firmly believe my neighbors have no clue they even exist. Hey, I can make fun of my own stuff. Okay, listen ... here's how I work the subs: They are plugged into a switched outlet and I turn them on when I want. I am very hesitant to run them past 9:00 PM. I prefer to start movies around 6:00 PM so that the boom boom is over and done with at a reasonable hour. Subs and multi family structures are doable and since high out put is actually not what you need, subs for multi family structures are affordable.

However for music ... some music anyway (DVD-A, SACD and Concert DVD's) I use the Analog 6 Channel In with my L&R set to Large. I would never do that with a movie though and ... I agree with BillyP about getting an opinion from PENG to see what he has to say ... but that is the only thing you should listen to BillyP about. j/k

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here is a HK receiver on amazon for $400:

http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-AVR1600-Performance-7-1-Channel/dp/B002IKKFTQ/ref=sr_1_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1298823548&sr=1-5

 

[Melee]

Thank You for the replies! I sent a PM to Peng for his comparison between the two. (Can't wait to hear his input on them.)

@ Grant, two bookshelves definitely aren't going to make me happy. lol I want to have a nice surround sound system in the near future which I can do with either the Energy's or Infinity's. I listen to music A LOT so nice fronts are definitely priority #1, however, I also game and watch movies probably half the time as well so I would like to have the surround for those instances. I also think having a Receiver to correct the sound and run all of my audio/video sources through is much better for a newbie like myself.

@ Acu, normally it's only the ID companies that have in-home trials. If I buy the Infinity's from Amazon, I would have to pay $500 for a pair which is $200 more than I would @ the other store I have found them at for $300/pair. In-home trial would be nice, but so is paying a much cheaper price for the same product. ^_^

@ Phillip, so you're saying that according to the measurements the Infinity would have better sound quality? As I said, I have no idea of how to read measurements. lol I know they're extremely useful, but I don't know what to look for to verify a great speaker over a terrible one. I know the most mentioned things in this regard are on-axis and off-axis plus "flatness", but I have no clue how that translates to sound. haha

@ Alex, I actually can get the larger PC351 for the same price as the PC251 so I would assume it's better to buy it? The same is true with the P163's and P153's. They're basically the same price from what I have seen so wouldn't it be better to buy the larger ones for surrounds?

As far as the Sub goes, what you're describing is exactly what I want to avoid of constantly worrying about making noise and leaving them so low that you can barely notice them. I would much rather wait until I move and have saved some money and buy two nice Subs that I can really enjoy and make worth the purchase and for now have a full 5-speaker surround system that can produce nice bass on its own.


Now, the other few questions I have encountered:

I checked Vanns to see their stock of RC-50's earlier and it only has a "notify me" button which means they're not currently available. Everywhere else has raised their prices back up to like $700 per speaker. Is there anywhere else to even get these at the $270-ish price they have been at recently? If not, then there's no point in me trying to make a decision as it would have already been made for me. lol

On the Infinity's, is there a difference in sound from the P360, P361, P362, and P363 models? From what I have read, they have remained mostly the same. The only things I have seen on the 363's were they said that they changed the front of the speakers to black instead of gray on the older models and that they "improved the cabinets". Is that true or is there a specific model that sounds the best? I'm assuming (and hoping) that newer is better since I can get them cheap and I really like the black fronts so definitely need some input on this.

Thanks!

Here is a HK receiver on amazon for $400:

JR's actually has the 2600 for $419 shipped. However, after reading up on the HK's, I think I will pass. Apparently, their auto eq is horrible and the sound quality is disappointing. I've also ready that they're quite "glitchy" as well.

 

[avnetguy]

2) Music is the top priority. Of course, I want speakers that can handle movie watching and gaming as well, but musicality is more important above all else. I want wonderfully detailed, warm sound that is enveloping and enables the music to sound the way it was meant to. I'm hoping for it to sound like I'm there instead of being able to tell the music is passing through a speaker. I want to hear the crystal clear vocals, the crisp clash of cymbals, the liveliness of electric guitars and all of those things that make music so amazing.

I have RC70s and do listen to music in 2.0, 2.1 and 5.1. I can say that the detail/accuracy coming from these speakers is very good to my ears but also note I'm not an audiophile. Even with my sub off, the low end on the RC70s is nice for music, good impact when you want it but would lack (of course) for movies. I find gaming to be the least stressful on speakers and again the RC70s easy handle the job but so would speakers half their price.

As far as "warm" sounding, I have to say that room acoustics would probably play a major role in that and my desciption of warm may be far off from what yours is.

As I tell anyone looking for speakers, all that matters is how "you" think they sound and that's the bottom line. Audition them in stores or better yet, buy them with a return policy so you hear them in your room.

 

[its phillip]

I don't even want to try defining "sound quality" The infinity FR is flatter, meaning more accurate. That doesn't necessarily translate to better sound. Also, a FR graph is only one measurement - there are plenty of other things that can affect how a speaker sounds :/

It does get complicated, which is why I suggest trying to listen to them somewhere, but I believe that you would be very happy with either speaker. Of course, I really enjoy my RC-50s

Unfortunately, I can confirm that the prices did go back up to msrp on the few stores that stock em. I dunno why. It does look like your decision has been made for you. They will probably go back down but there is no guarantee. I will say that the RC-30s are also a nice option at $200 each.

 

[KEW]

You've done good research to get it down to these two excellent choices and I don't think you'll have any regrets with either.
I have the P362's and they are a good performer for the money. The biggest issue I have with their sound is they get a little muddy in the bass as you crank them. Definitely not so bad as most floor-standing speakers in their price range!

No doubt, they do sound different, and it would really be nice if you could get both of these in the same room for a listen. However, that is probably unrealistic since you are looking at internet orders and the cost of return shipping is a significant portion of your budget.
I have read several opinions where a person preferred either one over the other. But generally those are just opinions.
The Energy's have the advantage for aesthetics. As you posted, if you decide to sell them, you won't have any problem because the build quality combined with sound quality will impress.
I'm glad to see that Infinity lost the "HTiB silver" front panel when they moved from the P362 to the P363. It is no longer an ugly speaker (IMHO) and that is a substantial improvement. However, it still shows cheap on close inspection (and it is a shame they kept the silver feet).
Both the Infinity and teh Energy are very efficient and will play nice with any competent modern AVR.
As others have said, wait to see what Peng has to say. Perhaps he can tell you differences he noted and you will get a sense of which of these speakers "feels right" for you.

Edit - If you are interested in the RC-50's you may want to call Vanns whenever they have live bodies to talk to. I don't know if they have any details or not, but it may be a matter of a "next shipment due to arrive Thursday" or "we haven't a clue".

 

[Alex2507]

I'm not sure what an 'improved' cabinet is. The xx0 and xx2 are identical outside of cosmetics. I assumed the xx3 were the same as well.

Based on listening to the centers I prefer the PC250 or C25 of old. Based on my understanding I prefer the P152 for surround duties. That has nothing to do with price. I would pay more for my preferred choices.

I don't worry about the subs making noise. I worry that I may forget to turn them on and miss the LFE. Watching War of the Worlds without subs would be little better that watching a Brokeback Mountain marathon with the good parts taken out ... wait ... that's wrong.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can only find measurements of the P350, RC-10s, RC-LCR, & RC-70

Keep in mind that the RC-70 in that review is the REFERENCE series, which is $2,000/pr. I don't think it is the same as the cheaper RC-70??


And price on that RC-50 says "1690 Euro/pr", which can't be the same as the cheaper priced RC-50??

 

[GranteedEV]

Watching War of the Worlds without subs would be little better that watching a Brokeback Mountain marathon with the good parts taken out ... wait ... that's wrong.

Yeah, you need rumble in some of those scenes!

 

[its phillip]

Keep in mind that the RC-70 in that review is the REFERENCE series, which is $2,000/pr. I don't think it is the same as the cheaper RC-70??


And price on that RC-50 says "1690 Euro/pr", which can't be the same as the cheaper priced RC-50??

RC = Reference Connoisseur.

RC-70, 50, 30, 10, LCR, and R are all part of the same series.

MSRP on the 70s is $2000/pr, and the MSRP on the 50s is $1600/pr.

 

[KEW]

Keep in mind that the RC-70 in that review is the REFERENCE series, which is $2,000/pr. I don't think it is the same as the cheaper RC-70??


And price on that RC-50 says "1690 Euro/pr", which can't be the same as the cheaper priced RC-50??

We are talking very nice speakers being closed out at ridiculous prices!
Energy must have had thousands of these in the pipeline, because they have been on deep discounted clearance for over a year.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

RC = Reference Connoisseur.

RC-70, 50, 30, 10, LCR, and R are all part of the same series.

MSRP on the 70s is $2000/pr, and the MSRP on the 50s is $1600/pr.

Wow, I never realized the MSRP was $2,000/pr!

My bad.

 

[KEW]

Just curious.

Does anyone know what the RC-50 (or any of the RC's) actually sold for when they were in mainstream production?

I mean, MSRP of the Infinity P363 is $760/Pr, but that is not a realistic purchase price!