Best Floorstanding Speakers < $1,000?

[zumbo]

I am amazed as to how the Quarts are disregarded, and in this thread, Infinty seems to be put on a pedestal. I mean, really?

The Quarts are in a whole other league.

Is there no-one out there that can honestly comment on this?

Just disgusted at this point.

Caulk. Wire cutters. Magnetic shielding. Just nuts. If any of you laid one eye on the quality of the Quart product, you would never in a million years consider opening anything up.

 

[GranteedEV]

I am amazed as to how the Quarts are disregarded, and in this thread, Infinty seems to be put on a pedestal. I mean, really?

How many white paper on psychoacoustics has MB Quart put out? The Primus' are very cheap (at half the price) so of course they could stand to improve the product. If the same product was released under the Revel moniker it would have top-level build quality.

Plus where the heck am I supposed to buy an MB quart anyways.

Plus you never post any measurements of the MB Quarts.

I don't care if they're truly the GOAT speakers in the world if they can't even be supported by some essential measurements. Why? Because everyone thinks their favorite speakers are the best.

 

[Melee]

I am amazed as to how the Quarts are disregarded, and in this thread, Infinty seems to be put on a pedestal. I mean, really?

The Quarts are in a whole other league.

Is there no-one out there that can honestly comment on this?

Just disgusted at this point.

Caulk. Wire cutters. Magnetic shielding. Just nuts. If any of you laid one eye on the quality of the Quart product, you would never in a million years consider opening anything up.

Did not mean to disregard them, my mind is just racing from one thing to another and my attention span is as short as they come. I apologize if I came across as rude. I actually looked at those and marveled at how beautiful they are, but the $999 price tag killed it for me after I looked over my budget again. If I sell my Receiver, I will have $1100 total to spend on AT LEAST another Receiver and 2x Towers for Fronts. So, that leaves me $750-$800 for the Towers and $300-$350 for the Receiver. There's no way I can swing $1,000 even anymore.

I am trying to read everything I can on the Infinity's. I'm sure they are nice, but it just does not make any sense to me how a speaker that costs $150 can sound as good or better than one costing $500-$700.

I am new to audio altogether so most of the brands you guys hold dear, I have never even heard of. All that I can do is take suggestions from those who have heard many different speakers and have helpful input and go read reviews and comparisons of them. That's all I've been doing for around a month now. lol It's extremely difficult when compared to the lucky people who can just ride to a local store and hear all of these great options.

The Infinity's are a small risk since they're cheap but they have a high chance of disappointment if I buy them for $300 and expect them to sound better than ones that cost $1,000.

The EMP's have extremely varied reviews from what I have seen. The few Professional reviews I have seen on them raved over them, but many of the consumer reviews I have seen didn't like them much at all. I know that can be attributed to many things, but I'm afraid I will feel the same way.

The Energy's seem to be the "safest" choice of the three. I know that they are high quality built, reportedly sound fit for my taste, and only cost a little over $500 shipped and will be easy to sell if I don't like them.

I am completely open to anything. As I said, I have around a week before I will get my refund for my Polk's to purchase a new set so I want to explore every single option I can find until then. I would say that I'm open to Bookshelves for Fronts, but I am soooo afraid that they won't be able to satisfy by themselves without a Sub so I think it would be safest to stick with Towers.

*** The biggest issue is still do I have room for Rear Ported Towers? ***

 

[zumbo]

How many revered white papers has MB Quart put out?

Plus where the heck am I supposed to buy an MB quart anyways.

Actually, they have trophy's. Mounds of them.

German Maestro is beginning to rebuild the quality product respect, after American investors ruined the company name.

This is one of those instances that if you don't know, you may be better off not commenting.

I have heard every Infinity product since the 80's. Just nasty sounding speakers.

http://www.yawaonline.com/ may ship to Canada, but this is not for you, correct?

 

[GranteedEV]

While we're on the subject of disregarding, you went and disregarded the SVS'.

They're a sealed design unlike most of the others so they will blend with a sub seamlessly with most receiver's crossover filters, and they use quality drivers and crossover components put together by Phil Bamberg. They are assembled in the same facility their subs are assembled so build quality is reliable.

 

[zumbo]

How many white paper on psychoacoustics has MB Quart put out? The Primus' are very cheap (at half the price) so of course they could stand to improve the product. If the same product was released under the Revel moniker it would have top-level build quality.

Plus where the heck am I supposed to buy an MB quart anyways.

Plus you never post any measurements of the MB Quarts.

I don't care if they're truly the GOAT speakers in the world if they can't even be supported by some essential measurements. Why? Because everyone thinks their favorite speakers are the best.

You are so far away from me, there is no way you could ever audition either of my systems.

While age and experience doesn't matter, I would like to state I have spent every free moment of my life devoted to audio. I am a musician, and have been for almost 35 years. Being a musician, I like my speakers to sound like the real thing.

While there are many brands out there that cost astronomical amounts of money, these discontinued models are truly a work of art. These guys have a true passion for quality, and continue to devote their passion into building the product they design.

Not China, or any other country that can save them a few bucks on building their premium line of product. Handmade-In-Germany. Just like admiring a 911, 330, or SLK. Just impeccable quality.

 

[zumbo]

While we're on the subject of disregarding, you went and disregarded the SVS'.

They're a sealed design unlike most of the others so they will blend with a sub seamlessly with most receiver's crossover filters, and they use quality drivers and crossover components put together by Phil Bamberg. They are assembled in the same facility their subs are assembled so build quality is reliable.

No, no. If I did, that was a mistake. I recommend SV daily here. And, I prefer sealed subs.

 

[GranteedEV]

Actually, they have trophy's. Mounds of them.

By trophy you mean what exactly? I'm talking about white papers that actually have meaning to me. Trophies don't mean ****.

This is one of those instances that if you don't know, you may be better off not commenting.

This is one of those instances where you just look bitter about how no one has heard your (at least in NA) obscure speakers. I don't see anyone even putting them down. ALl I know is literally that you've never once shown me any reason I should want to listen to them except for "I think they sound great" which is your subjective opinion and that's perfectly fine but not exactly convincing.

I have heard every Infinity product since the 80's. Just nasty sounding speakers.

Good for you.

http://www.yawaonline.com/ may ship to Canada, but this is not for you, correct?

It could be if you could give something a bit more convincing than "I love MB Quart boo hoo Infinity". With a lot of brands I can go out and audition it myself. But you know I'm more than willing to buy an internet brand or DIY Kit if something can show me it's good.

While there are many brands out there that cost astronomical amounts of money, these discontinued models are truly a work of art. These guys have a true passion for quality, and continue to devote their passion into building the product they design.

That's good to hear, but build quality does not equate to sounding good. That doesn't mean the MB Quarts don't sound good. They probably do. I just don't know how to know for sure. What I do know is that they have nice, but overpriced car audio drivers.

Not China, or any other country that can save them a few bucks on building their premium line of product. Handmade-In-Germany. Just like admiring a 911, 330, or SLK. Just impeccable quality.

That's nice. I don't understand what makes you so defensive though.

No, no. If I did, that was a mistake. I recommend SV daily here. And, I prefer sealed subs.

I'm neither talking about subs nor was I addressing you. I was talking about the STS-02s to OP.

 

[zumbo]

Very last sub thread I was involved in:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72496

 

[Wolvy]

Actually, they have trophy's. Mounds of them.

German Maestro is beginning to rebuild the quality product respect, after American investors ruined the company name.

This is one of those instances that if you don't know, you may be better off not commenting.

I have heard every Infinity product since the 80's. Just nasty sounding speakers.

http://www.yawaonline.com/ may ship to Canada, but this is not for you, correct?

Agree; Infinity is junk (now). I'd like to know where the OP can find a pair in the $300-400 range and what are they? I wasn't even impressed with their top of the line series. So many internet-direct companies that will run circles around these brick and mortars.

 

[Melee]

While we're on the subject of disregarding, you went and disregarded the SVS'.

They're a sealed design unlike most of the others so they will blend with a sub seamlessly with most receiver's crossover filters, and they use quality drivers and crossover components put together by Phil Bamberg. They are assembled in the same facility their subs are assembled so build quality is reliable.

I can't find anything on them. lol That makes me nervous.

I'm sure they're great speakers, but it's hard to consider them if I can't see any in-depth reviews of their sound. Know what I mean?

 

[zumbo]

By trophy you mean what exactly? I'm talking about white papers that actually have meaning to me. Trophies don't mean ****.

The way I see it, the white papers you speak of are provided by a reviewer. Trophies are provided to winners.

This is one of those instances where you just look bitter about how no one has heard your (at least in NA) obscure speakers. I don't see anyone even putting them down. ALl I know is literally that you've never once shown me any reason I should want to listen to them except for "I think they sound great" which is your subjective opinion and that's perfectly fine but not exactly convincing.

Not bitter at all. I get tired of seeing members here recommend absolute junk to people. It's enough already.

Do you own this crap you are backing?

 

[zumbo]

I can't find anything on them. lol That makes me nervous.

I'm sure they're great speakers, but it's hard to consider them if I can't see any in-depth reviews of their sound. Know what I mean?

Just a simple education, I hope you will take to heart.

Review=Advertisement.

White paper provided in a review is just another form.

The white paper that comes with most products is FOS. It's just advertisement.

You have been invited to hear this product. If you can't, then I understand.

 

[GranteedEV]

The way I see it, the white papers you speak of are provided by a reviewer. Trophies are provided to winners.

Huh? Wait, what? How is a white paper provided by a reviewer? I think we're having a miscommunication here. I'm talking about AES papers etc by guys like Sean Olive and Floyd Toole. I don't know what that has to do with reviewers.

And winners of what? Subjective, sighted listening tests that are totally dependant on material played in specific rooms? That's far from a controlled comparision. I've seen plenty of high end manufacturers win plenty of awards and it doesn't mean crap. Sorry if I sound obsessive about science or what-have-you but i'm somewhat cynical about "Awards" in which judges choose something subjectively with few controls in place. I don't believe in it in the Olympics and I don't believe in it in Audio.

Not bitter at all. I get tired of seeing members here recommend absolute junk to people. It's enough already.

Then you should recommend everyone DIY their speakers because at most of the prices people ask for they can't expect a truly good speaker. Even your precious MB quarts hit the millenium mark and people aren't quite willing to spend that.

Do you own this crap you are backing?

I've at least heard it and seen measurements of it. Moreso than I can say about MB Quart, sorry.

 

[KEW]

The Energy's seem to be the "safest" choice of the three. I know that they are high quality built, reportedly sound fit for my taste, and only cost a little over $500 shipped and will be easy to sell if I don't like them.

*** The biggest issue is still do I have room for Rear Ported Towers? ***

From the manual, at least 12":

Left and Right Main Speakers (RC-10, RC-30, RC-50, RC-70, RC-LCR)
The main speakers are usually placed in the front of the room, on either side of the
TV or video projector. They should be placed a minimum of 6 feet apart, and if the
furniture placement allows, keep them at least 12 inches from all walls. To calculate
the best placement, measure the distance between the speakers themselves and the
listening position. Your distance from the speakers should be roughly 1.5 times the
distance the speakers are apart from each other. For example: If the distance
between each speaker and the listening position is 9 feet, then the speakers should
be 6 feet apart from one another. This will provide excellent stereo separation and
imaging for music playback. This is just a starting point, the room's acoustics and
furniture placement will vary the placement of the speaker. Use your best judgment
and experiment with speaker placement. Slight adjustments can provide significant
improvements in performance.

 

[GranteedEV]

I can't find anything on them. lol That makes me nervous.

I'm sure they're great speakers, but it's hard to consider them if I can't see any in-depth reviews of their sound. Know what I mean?

Avoid subjective reviews. They're so depending on the reviewer that they're a total crapshoot. While we can say that "this review mirrors out experience" or "this review sparks my interest" we can't base our opinions on subjective reviews.


I will say this.. here's the first party specifications for the STS-02:

Design Sealed, "seamless" cabinet contouring, two 1/2 way crossover
Operating bandwidth 60Hz - 21kHz ± 6dB
Nominal Impedance 6 ohms
Sensitivity 90dB
Power Handling 20W - 320W


It's not the full picture, but it tells you quite a bit about the speaker. If you asked them, SVS would probably provide you with off axis plots as well. If off axis plots resemble on axis plots, you can be sure of a wide sweet spot, and the further off axis you get without notable deviation, the less chance of room reflections "coloring" the sound.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

We all have different opinions based on different tastes and experiences.

We have people who swear that the Paradigm Signature speakers are perfectly neutral and non-fatiguing, while some people say they wince when highs are being played.

We have people who say that the B&W 802D are perfectly neutral and accurate, while some people say they sound muddy and boring.

Who is the OP going to believe?

Who is right and wrong?

Zumbo says the MQ Quarts sound like the best speakers he has ever heard, and I believe him.

GranteedEV likes the EMP and the Salks, among others, and I believe him.

PENG says the B&W 802D is one of the best he's heard, and I believe him.

After listening to those speakers, I may not agree, but I believe that those speakers sound great to these guys.

And I'm happy for Zumbo, GranteedEV, PENG, and all these good fellas.

Who is the OP going to believe?

Who is right and wrong?

So when we make recommendations, as GranteedEV mentioned, we often like to stick to the basics because they are the safest.

And what are the basics?

As PENG, AJinFL, and others mentioned, We look at how the speakers perform in the lab - measurements like on-axis and off-axis frequency responses. There are other measurements, but these 2 are probably the most important as far as "neutrality" and "accuracy" is concerned.

Here is the measurements of the Infinity P360s:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/infinity-primus-360-loudspeaker-measurements

On-axis (Figure 3): you can see that in the important 200Hz - 15kHz, it is very, very flat!

Off-axis Horizontal (Fig 4): you can see from 300Hz - 10kHz, it is pretty flat from +/- 30 degrees. In figure 5, the vertical off-axis is also pretty flat.

"More important, note how evenly spaced the contour lines are in this graph, and how consistently the Infinity maintains its off-axis response across the audioband up to 9kHz or so. This means that the reverberant field generated by the speaker in a room will be as uncolored as the on-axis response. Again, this is impressive speaker engineering, even if you don't take the Primus 360's price into account. In the vertical plane (fig.5), the Infinity maintains its flat response over quite a wide listening window."

But like any other speakers, we have people who subjectively say the Infinity P362 is perfectly neutral and accurate, while some people subjectively say they are not.

The only thing I expect from a loudspeaker is that it can play the music clearly, instead of muddy and unclear sound. And if it can also play some tight bass, more power to it.

I also want to add that my brother used to own large Polk towers, and he thought the P362s sounded a lot clearer than the Polk.

Obviously the Infinity P362 is not the best sounding speaker out there.

I have auditioned the B&W 800D, 802D, & 803D; Revel Salon2 & M22; Paradigm Studio 100; Linkwitz Orion, Martin Logan Vantage; Krell Resolution One; Dali Euphonia MS5; RBH T3R/P; PSB Imagine T; Definitive BP7001, 7000, BP10B, & SM450.

I'm also in the process of getting a local KEF dealer in Edmond, OK, to borrow some Reference speakers from a KEF rep for me to audition soon.

I can say wholeheartedly that the Infinity P362 is a very clear sounding loudspeaker that can reveal more details than half the speakers I mentioned, can play better bass than a few of the speakers I mentioned, and has a better off-axis response than some of the speakers I mentioned.

The OP may want to try other speakers for under $1K, but I don't have the on-axis and off-axis responses of those speakers.

 

[zumbo]

I've at least heard it and seen measurements of it. Moreso than I can say about MB Quart, sorry.

So you don't own the product you back.

You will not find one thread where an opinion has been given of Quart negatively. Not one.

You seem to possy-up with members, and yet you have no personal experience with the products you are backing. The proof is in the thread.

Any member can click on my identity, and follow any thread. Unless it is a situation where a product application is clearly needed, such as the cylinder sub I recommended in the thread I linked herein, I back products I own.

I have seen you respond to threads you have no experience in, and partake in running members off that have much more experience than you.

Enough is enough. If I just happen to see folks recommending junk that needs to be rigged on the kitchen table again, you can bet I will step-in and comment.

Kitchen-table mods. What a friggin joke.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Avoid subjective reviews.

If off axis plots resemble on axis plots, you can be sure of a wide sweet spot, and the further off axis you get without notable deviation, the less chance of room reflections "coloring" the sound.

I agree.

Look at the on-axis and off-axis responses. Compare them to speakers that have great on-axis and off-axis responses like the Revel Salon2 and KEF 207/2 (both these speakers were Speaker of The Year on Stereophile by the way).

 

[KEW]

I will say this.. here's the first party specifications for the STS-02:

Operating bandwidth 60Hz - 21kHz ± 6dB

That is generally a nice, smooth plot, but I wish they didn't give a ±6db tolerance! That allows 12db difference between the loudest and softest which is not a reasonable standard for listening to music.
Looking at the plot, it looks like they could claim 80Hz to 15kHz using a much more impressive ±2db tolerance.
Not many speakers can claim that flat of a FR!
That is a nit pick in the scheme of things, but SVS is good about providing data and graphs and it is a shame that they chose to declare the FR using an unreasonably wide tolerance.