Bigger, Better, More Sound?

[SMcRae]

I thought I was going to upgrade my audio/video equipment last year. I’m happy with the video part but I still prefer listening to my old stereo from 1972. It is – Pioneer Sx-727 receiver, Pioneer CSA-700 speakers, Dual 1218 turntable. When I crank my new stuff up it doesn’t come close to the old stuff that drives the music right into you and fills you up with it without distorting. I want to achieve that with my new stuff if it’s possible and maybe you folks can tell me what I did wrong and how I can fix it. Here’s a list of the new stuff and some of the specs which have little meaning to me -
A/V Receiver - Onkyo TX-NR3007
Power Output -
Front L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Center 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Surround L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Dynamic Power 320 W (3 ohms, 1 ch) 270 W (4 ohms, 1 ch) 160 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)
THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) 0.05% (Rated power) Damping Factor 60 (Front, 1 kHz, 8 ohms) Input Sensitivity and Impedance 200 mV/47 k-ohms (Line) 2.5 mV/47 k-ohms (Phone MM) Output Level and Impedance 200 mV/470 ohms Phono Overload 70 mV (MM, 1 kHz, 0.5%) Frequency Response 5 Hz–100 kHz/+1 dB, -3 dB (Direct mode) Tone Control ±10 dB, 50 Hz (Bass) ±10 dB, 20 kHz (Treble) Signal-to-Noise Ratio 110 dB (Line, IHF-A) Speaker Impedance 4 ohms–16 ohms or 6 ohms–16 ohms

Speakers - Front L & R - Vienna Acoustics Bach Grand (wired normal - the only way possible)
2-way Crossover, 7” Mid-Woofer, 1” Dome Tweeter
Impedance (4 ohms)
Frequency response (35-20000 Hz)
Sensitivity (90db)
Recommended Amplifiers (50-300 Watts)

Speakers – Center & Surrounds L & R – Vienna Acoustics Waltz Grand
2-way Crossover, 2x 6” Bass/Mid-Range, 1” Dome Tweeter
Impedance (4 ohms)
Frequency response (70-20000 Hz)
Sensitivity (91db)
Recommended Amplifiers (25-180Watts)

1-Subwoofer – Martin Logan Dynamo 500

I’d rather not start all over and hope there is a simple not to expensive solution. Any criticism, advice and suggestions will be immensely appreciated.
Thanks…Stu

 

[AVRat]

Welcome to the sight. Have you run the Audyssey auto set up on the Onkyo yet? Or done any speaker/bass management in the Onkyo?

 

[SMcRae]

I thought I was going to upgrade my audio/video equipment last year. I’m happy with the video part but I still prefer listening to my old stereo from 1972. It is – Pioneer Sx-727 receiver, Pioneer CSA-700 speakers, Dual 1218 turntable. When I crank my new stuff up it doesn’t come close to the old stuff that drives the music right into you and fills you up with it without distorting. I want to achieve that with my new stuff if it’s possible and maybe you folks can tell me what I did wrong and how I can fix it. Here’s a list of the new stuff and some of the specs which have little meaning to me -
A/V Receiver - Onkyo TX-NR3007
Power Output -
Front L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Center 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Surround L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Dynamic Power 320 W (3 ohms, 1 ch) 270 W (4 ohms, 1 ch) 160 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)
THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) 0.05% (Rated power) Damping Factor 60 (Front, 1 kHz, 8 ohms) Input Sensitivity and Impedance 200 mV/47 k-ohms (Line) 2.5 mV/47 k-ohms (Phone MM) Output Level and Impedance 200 mV/470 ohms Phono Overload 70 mV (MM, 1 kHz, 0.5%) Frequency Response 5 Hz–100 kHz/+1 dB, -3 dB (Direct mode) Tone Control ±10 dB, 50 Hz (Bass) ±10 dB, 20 kHz (Treble) Signal-to-Noise Ratio 110 dB (Line, IHF-A) Speaker Impedance 4 ohms–16 ohms or 6 ohms–16 ohms

Speakers - Front L & R - Vienna Acoustics Bach Grand (wired normal - the only way possible)
2-way Crossover, 7” Mid-Woofer, 1” Dome Tweeter
Impedance (4 ohms)
Frequency response (35-20000 Hz)
Sensitivity (90db)
Recommended Amplifiers (50-300 Watts)

Speakers – Center & Surrounds L & R – Vienna Acoustics Waltz Grand
2-way Crossover, 2x 6” Bass/Mid-Range, 1” Dome Tweeter
Impedance (4 ohms)
Frequency response (70-20000 Hz)
Sensitivity (91db)
Recommended Amplifiers (25-180Watts)

1-Subwoofer – Martin Logan Dynamo 500

I’d rather not start all over and hope there is a simple not to expensive solution. Any criticism, advice and suggestions will be immensely appreciated.
Thanks…Stu

Thanks AVRat
Yes I ran the Audyssey setup in the very beginning. I can't leave things alone though so I then went in and manually tweaked things until I got it sounding good to me. It sounds real nice but when I want to turn it up it seems to only gain so much volume. Should that 140watt receiver power those 4 ohm speakers as well as the 40 watt SX-727 does the 8 ohm CSA 700's?

 

[GranteedEV]

Hate to break it to you, but while speaker tech has evolved, you likely won't get the kind of clean output and slam of 1970s 4-ways with huge 10-15" drivers using slim 2-ways with a single 7 inch driver. If you want full and crystal clear at high SPL with modern fidelity speakers, here's what I recommend looking into:

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/triple-8ht/

 

[AVRat]

Yes, the Onkyo is providing plenty of good clean power to the equally clean sounding VAs. With a good system, loud shouldn't sound loud. You have a nice little setup, but maybe it doesn't suit your taste. My '82 vintage ESS are also clean sounding speakers, but I know beyond a certain point it's not doing my ears any good.

How big is your space (volume wise/dimensions) and what volume level are you pushing the Onkyo to?

 

[Davemcc]

With a good system, loud shouldn't sound loud.

Very true.

 

[walter duque]

I think what you need is some real power for them speakers. About 5 years ago I purchased a
Denon AVR 140 wattsx7 and it didn't do my speakers any justice. I ended up giving that away for free after about a week. Cost me 2K but it went to my neighbor, so it was for a good cause. Might have been a great AVR but not for my needs. Fine speakers need fine amplification, not an AVR.

 

[jostenmeat]

I thought I was going to upgrade my audio/video equipment last year. I’m happy with the video part but I still prefer listening to my old stereo from 1972. It is – Pioneer Sx-727 receiver, Pioneer CSA-700 speakers, Dual 1218 turntable. When I crank my new stuff up it doesn’t come close to the old stuff that drives the music right into you and fills you up with it without distorting. I want to achieve that with my new stuff if it’s possible and maybe you folks can tell me what I did wrong and how I can fix it. Here’s a list of the new stuff and some of the specs which have little meaning to me -
A/V Receiver - Onkyo TX-NR3007
Power Output -
Front L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Center 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Surround L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Dynamic Power 320 W (3 ohms, 1 ch) 270 W (4 ohms, 1 ch) 160 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)
THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) 0.05% (Rated power) Damping Factor 60 (Front, 1 kHz, 8 ohms) Input Sensitivity and Impedance 200 mV/47 k-ohms (Line) 2.5 mV/47 k-ohms (Phone MM) Output Level and Impedance 200 mV/470 ohms Phono Overload 70 mV (MM, 1 kHz, 0.5%) Frequency Response 5 Hz–100 kHz/+1 dB, -3 dB (Direct mode) Tone Control ±10 dB, 50 Hz (Bass) ±10 dB, 20 kHz (Treble) Signal-to-Noise Ratio 110 dB (Line, IHF-A) Speaker Impedance 4 ohms–16 ohms or 6 ohms–16 ohms

Speakers - Front L & R - Vienna Acoustics Bach Grand (wired normal - the only way possible)
2-way Crossover, 7” Mid-Woofer, 1” Dome Tweeter
Impedance (4 ohms)
Frequency response (35-20000 Hz)
Sensitivity (90db)
Recommended Amplifiers (50-300 Watts)

Speakers – Center & Surrounds L & R – Vienna Acoustics Waltz Grand
2-way Crossover, 2x 6” Bass/Mid-Range, 1” Dome Tweeter
Impedance (4 ohms)
Frequency response (70-20000 Hz)
Sensitivity (91db)
Recommended Amplifiers (25-180Watts)

1-Subwoofer – Martin Logan Dynamo 500

I’d rather not start all over and hope there is a simple not to expensive solution. Any criticism, advice and suggestions will be immensely appreciated.
Thanks…Stu

I think you need to start over, and particularly with the subwoofer. That sub is designed to be small as possible, AND on a budget.

I would guess that you bought all this stuff from a Magnolia/BestBuy. If so, and you can return the stuff in some sort of 30 day window or whatever, I would absolutely do so 100% sure, and 200% sure with what your requests/needs are.

 

[walter duque]

I think you need to start over, and particularly with the subwoofer. That sub is designed to be small as possible, AND on a budget.

I would guess that you bought all this stuff from a Magnolia/BestBuy. If so, and you can return the stuff in some sort of 30 day window or whatever, I would absolutely do so 100% sure, and 200% sure with what your requests/needs are.

I say you're 100% right. I think the OP has been take for a ride.

 

[AVRat]

Any response?

 

[SMcRae]

Thanks everyone. I am getting a separate stereo power amp (NAD C 275BEE) to try. I have nothing to lose and I really do like everything else about what I have. AVRat, it is a real sweet little setup. I understand what you mean by "loud doesn't sound loud". I'll let you all know in a few days what the results are.

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks everyone. I am getting a separate stereo power amp (NAD C 275BEE) to try. I have nothing to lose and I really do like everything else about what I have. AVRat, it is a real sweet little setup. I understand what you mean by "loud doesn't sound loud". I'll let you all know in a few days what the results are.

As an owner of a NAD amplifier, I do advise that you look at Outlaw and Emotiva amplifiers before pulling the trigger. Depending on the pricing you've landed, you may get more value with ID.