My Dilemma

[opus007]

Long time lurker and total noob when it comes to speaker building,theory and design.I have always bought my speakers except for a project where I used 2 old fisher cabinets and replaced the drivers and bought a set of xovers from parts express.And although they sound fair they tend to be bright in the higher ranges.

Due to financial reasons I had to sell my current setup of B&W 600 series setup.All was powered with Rotel gear. Now I am back to the old fisher cabs which have 15" sub woofers,pioneer mids and unknown tweeters.And a 10 year old Sony receiver.

I listen to 70's rock and also smooth jazz.My source is a Sony cdp, and a PS1.The PS1 is the smoothest of my 2 CD players.The modded Fishers and the Sony will play very loud and at extreme volume the volume nob never exceeds the 11 o'clock position so I am guessing the modded Fishers are very easy to drive.

My Dilemma is I m still recovering from my financial woes and have little money to spend.What would be my best direction to take?

Can I have someone build xovers for these cabs by supplying the volume and driver info?The drivers are all over 10 years so if so I would want to replace the drivers and reconfigure the cabs and maybe make the 15" sub into maybe a 10 or 12.

Or is this just not a good idea.I have no woodworking tools or experience in building cabs from scratch.Also I do not have a lot to spend.

I have looked at the TriTrix MTM TL Speaker Package from parts express and it looks interesting.Any idea how these would compare to B&W 683's as I truly loved the sound of the ones I had.

Any and all help is welcome.Thanks
Shaun

 

[Swerd]

Long time lurker and total noob when it comes to speaker building,theory and design. I have always bought my speakers except for a project where I used 2 old fisher cabinets and replaced the drivers and bought a set of xovers from parts express. And although they sound fair they tend to be bright in the higher ranges.

Generic crossovers that were not designed for specific drivers mounted in a specific cabinet rarely, if ever, are a good idea. You could have someone design a new crossover for what you have. It would require sending your speakers to a willing DIY crossover designer who would take measurements of each driver's performance while mounted in your cabinet. It is possible that this might improve your speakers but I cannot say what it would cost, or if it would be worth it to you. It is also possible that the crossover designer (after seeing the measurements) might say "forget it, these drivers don't work well together".

I have looked at the TriTrix MTM TL Speaker Package from parts express and it looks interesting. Any idea how these would compare to B&W 683's as I truly loved the sound of the ones I had.

I've never been a fan of the B&W 600 series speakers. B&W insists on crossing over the midwoofer to the tweeter at a very high 3.5 or 4 kHz, leading to audible and irritating high-frequency resonance noise from the midwoofers. For the price there are better sounding speakers.

The TriTrix kit, for the price is a great deal. For $200 you get unfinished but good sounding speakers. I haven't heard the 683s, so I can't say for certain which might be better, but the TriTrix may do less wrong than the 683's.

The other option I would suggest, is save your money for now, keep listening to different speakers, and buy later.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

The TriTrix looks to be a great kit but it does require some wood working skills and tools. You might want to consider a kit with finished cabinets.

 

[opus007]

Thanks for the replies.
Swerd:
As for the B&W speakers I do agree with with some of what you said.It seems that I was always trying to tame the highs on them.I tried different cpd's, different amps,cables,interconnects and a multitude of receivers and pre amps but in the end,Rotel seemed to match best with them.In the end and even though I did like them I guess I just got used to them.
As for saving my money I am looking for a solution now.

jeffsg4mac:
I have looked at the tutorials for the TriTrix and followed builds on them.I do feel I could handle the build of the enclosures and the xovers.Since the enclosure come as a kit, it is just a matter of putting them together.It would require me to buy some clamps and glue and paint as I would paint them black ash.

I have been doing a lot of reading on cabinet building and xovers .A lot I do not understand but a lot I do.My worse fear is I build the TriTrix and come to find that the speakers I have now sound better.But in theory the TriTrix should blow the current ones I have away.The plus side would be better speakers(crossed fingers) and experience into speaker speaking building.

So maybe the TriTrix for 200 dollars is the way to go?I think replacing the speakers and having the xovers made for me for the current speakers could cost me more than it could be worth.It is still hard for me to comprehend how a 200 dollar speaker kit could be that good but I have read a lot of reviews that are really positive and the builders of this kit where also very surprised with the results.

Hmmmm what to do????
Shaun

 

[Swerd]

As for the B&W speakers I do agree with with some of what you said. It seems that I was always trying to tame the highs on them. I tried different cpd's, different amps, cables, interconnects and a multitude of receivers and pre amps, but in the end, Rotel seemed to match best with them. In the end and even though I did like them I guess I just got used to them.

Your comments sound like those from many other B&W owners I've known. All those attempts to tame the harsh highs won't work as well as a properly done crossover. The B&W 800 series, which cost a lot more, don't suffer from those problems.

… My worse fear is I build the TriTrix and come to find that the speakers I have now sound better. But in theory, the TriTrix should blow the current ones I have away. The plus side would be better speakers (crossed fingers) and experience into speaker speaking building.

Curt C, the TriTrix designer, has a very good reputation among DIY builders. I would be willing to bet that the TriTrix will sound better than the cobbled together plop-something-in-a-box speakers you now have. You'd be surprised at how inexpensive drivers can sound good when there is a properly designed crossover and cabinet.

What I can't say is if you'll like them as well as you did the 683s.

Good luck & keep us posted if you do get the TriTrix.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

jeffsg4mac:
I have looked at the tutorials for the TriTrix and followed builds on them.I do feel I could handle the build of the enclosures and the xovers.Since the enclosure come as a kit, it is just a matter of putting them together.It would require me to buy some clamps and glue and paint as I would paint them black ash.

I have been doing a lot of reading on cabinet building and xovers .A lot I do not understand but a lot I do.My worse fear is I build the TriTrix and come to find that the speakers I have now sound better.But in theory the TriTrix should blow the current ones I have away.The plus side would be better speakers(crossed fingers) and experience into speaker speaking building.

So maybe the TriTrix for 200 dollars is the way to go?I think replacing the speakers and having the xovers made for me for the current speakers could cost me more than it could be worth.It is still hard for me to comprehend how a 200 dollar speaker kit could be that good but I have read a lot of reviews that are really positive and the builders of this kit where also very surprised with the results.

Hmmmm what to do????
Shaun

If you can do it then by all means because It looks like a killer speaker. For the money I don't think you could do any better.

 

[GranteedEV]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind a tritrix in my house

But if you don't mind ~doubling up the budget, I highly recommend this:

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8652

Both are great designers. I think the driver choice is an upgrade however, a notable one. I also think the cabinet building should be a bit easier than the transmission line tritrix.

 

[opus007]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind a tritrix in my house

But if you don't mind ~doubling up the budget, I highly recommend this:

madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8652[/url]

Both are great designers. I think the driver choice is an upgrade however, a notable one. I also think the cabinet building should be a bit easier than the transmission line tritrix.

That looks to be a good price but I am looking for a 3 way kit and the one you mentioned only goes down to 52hz and I would like to it go down to the low 40 or possibly high 30hz range

 

[jostenmeat]

That looks to be a good price but I am looking for a 3 way kit and the one you mentioned only goes down to 52hz and I would like to it go down to the low 40 or possibly high 30hz range

For a bonafide full ranger, as GranteedEV has informed me, there are the Statements, but they will be considerably more expensive, and it's not a kit . . . yet! However there is some chatter at AVS DIY subforum that there might* be a chance that someone will build "flatpacks" for this. Heck, from the little I've seen of it, maybe it still could be complex as a kit, lol. They'll have to see if it'll work out. Otherwise, the design is a very hard one to build, so far as I know, from scratch. Sorry if I failed to recognize a budget limit (did you state it as $200?), not that we know what a possible future flatpack would cost.

I've already started to collect tools, but if they made flatpacks for the Statements, that were at least reasonable in price, that could be really tempting . . .

 

[GranteedEV]

That looks to be a good price but I am looking for a 3 way kit and the one you mentioned only goes down to 52hz and I would like to it go down to the low 40 or possibly high 30hz range

Are you sure that's the correct approach?

Actively crossed to a great/high power DIY sub @ 80hz (or well placed dual subs around 120 hz!) you will get very nice power handling, (hopefully) more optimal bass response, and much deeper extention than a 3-way can do, while also releiving the amp of duty. And 52hz extention is not half bad. It's a missing octave and a half, but not exactly the most musically notable of octaves. At most you'll miss a bit of slam and impact on the lowest registers. Otherwise there's many situations where you may not be able to hear the difference between getting 20hz extention and getting 52hz extention!

I can certainly second that Statements recommendation if you're intent on a passive 3-way and no sub, mind you. i recommended the Zaph kit as it's rather affordable IMO, and should tide you over with what I presume is killer SQ until you want to add a sub to take care of the two deep bass octaves. FWIW I think the tritrix probably has its output limitations. Remember, bass extension is one thing, and bass headroom is another. Balancing the two is the hard part and usually high mass, high excursion, high power handling drivers driven by kilowatt amps, often in multiples... Or TLS Guy would tell you pipes.

You get a quality sub like the infinity kappa builds here, or my preference, two sealed Exodus Tempest-X 15" off an EP2500, or perhaps some Rythmik kits, and that'll take care of that last octave a lot better than 8" woofers, and with digital FIR filters of bass management systems instead of the analog IIR filters of a 3-way. With sufficient amplification I think you would have very good headroom and sound quality. If going the route of crossing over high as I suggested earlier, I would recommend sealed subwoofers with smooth response as high as 500hz. Otherwise you would have a lot more options than simply the woofer that worked in a given passive 3-way.

 

[opus007]

I understand your thinking on the 2 powered subs.I have 2 - 15" subs in seperate 6L enclosures that go down very low and powered by a beringer EP2500.While they are fantastic for movies I have never liked incorporating them with music.

I know there are a lot of people who prefere integrating a sub into there music but for me and this is just my feeling and experence ,is that it is just not the same.

When I had my B&W speakers and B&W subs(x2)....although it integrated well it was just not the same as running 3 ways without a sub.Something seems to get lost and even crossing the subs over at 60hz the highs seem to get brighter.

I have experenced this with receivers form Rotel,Sony,Yamaha,Pioneer..ect and many differnt amps and preamps.It is just something that I notice and does mean that it is bad or good .

Many will disagree with me and say that a well integrated sub will sound just as good ..but to me it does not.And it is not just the systems I have put together as I have demoed many in store high end systems and came away with the same feeling.

I have deceided to just save my money for awhile and acumualte some more tools and buid one of the 3 way designs .It maybe the Statements or Dynamic 4T or 1.618 - 3-Way Hi-Vi Tower .Just not sure yet.In the mean time I will be doing some small speaker projects to get my skills up to par.

A question on the Statements.Will a ribbon tweeter play very loud without distortion and blowing the tweeter?Why use ribbons instead of a dome tweeter.Also why do some builders place the tweeter under another driver or to the side of another driver.

Thanks
Shaun

 

[Theresa]

been there

I have been in such financial straights where I had to save for many months to get equipment not as good as what I had to sell. It was extraordinarily difficult. Its when I really started "speaker building," which was just guesswork back in the '70s. You would be better off with most any speakers, given the Fisher's age and performance. Just keep saving, reading, and listening.

 

[opus007]

I have been in such financial straights where I had to save for many months to get equipment not as good as what I had to sell. It was extraordinarily difficult. Its when I really started "speaker building," which was just guesswork back in the '70s. You would be better off with most any speakers, given the Fisher's age and performance. Just keep saving, reading, and listening.

Thanks for the reply.I am reading everything I can to get a better grasp of all this.I wish I had of listened more to my teachers in algebra back in the 70's when in high school but was to busy listening to Hendrix .
A lot of this makes no sense but I am learning and when I do my first kit I am hoping to get a better feel of it all.

 

[Theresa]

Yes, Exodus

I can vouch for the poster above that Exodus subwoofer drivers especially the Tempest are quite wonderful. I have had mine assembled for about a week.