favorite surge protector

[jp_over]

Friends,

BLUF (bottom line up front): If you use a standard surge protector (such as the link below), I’d like to know why it’s your favorite / what led you to that conclusion. If you’re completely against surge protectors and only believe in power conditioners, UPS, etc, I’d like to know why as well (supporting data of course!).

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-12-Outlet-Protector-Ethernet-Protection/dp/B000HPX46U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1297321744&sr=8-2

Additional info:
I’m looking for a little advice on how to protect my precious investment (see signature). I’ve done some reading on surge protection and understand that “whole house” protection is the ideal. However, I move frequently and sometimes don’t get much say in where I live or what I can do with my home (such as military housing).

Of note, I did a check on my consumerreports.org account and didn’t see any power strip or surge protector ratings.

Thanks!

 

[zumbo]

I use and recommend a Cyberpower UPS. The reasons are many. With some research, you may come to the same conclusion.

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series.html

My unit:
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PR2200LCDRT2U.html

 

[westom]

If you use a standard surge protector (such as the link below), I’d like to know why it’s your favorite / what led you to that conclusion. If you’re completely against surge protectors and only believe in power conditioners, UPS, etc, I’d like to know why as well (supporting data of course!).

Do you want an answer based in hearsay and emotions? Or in hard facts and reality?

An honest answer starts with basic facts and spec numbers. Not with "I used this; therefore it must be good". Surges that can overwhelm protection already inside appliances are hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does that protector have? Read its numeric specs. Where does it claim to absorb the energy of a potentially destructive surge?

Ask some damning questions. How does that protector's 2 cm part stop what three miles of sky could not?

It is a $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts? How massive is their profit margin? Why can Monster sell an equivalent protector circuit for up to $150? Why is the similar circuit also selling in grocery stores for $7?

Protection is always about where destructive energy dissipates. Where does that protector even discuss energy dissipation? Why not? Hundreds of joules is near zero protection,. Just enough above zero so that sales brochures can claim 100% protection. An honest answer starts with numeric specs - the only place honesty is required. So where does that protector claim protection from each type of surge?

Facilities that can never have surge damage will not use that protector. Numeric specs are your first indication why. What any effective protector must do is another discussion. But for now, start with what the manufacture says it will do. Answer damning questions using their numeric specifications. Where does it claim protection from the typically destructive type of surge?

 

[jp_over]

Zumbo,

Thanks for the advice. I wanted to ask, do you use this UPS for your computer or for your HT (perhaps for both)?

I gave up on a UPS for my home PC when the new processors would not work with the old UPS systems (pure Sinewave cost just about as much as my PC at the time!). Currently, I (wrecklessly some might say) use a surge protector. I know that I will need to change this thinking soon for the PC but that's another topic...

Also, if you use the PR2200 for your HT, I'm guessing you use a UPS to protect from brownouts and give yourself time for a proper shutdown? I didn't think this was an issue for HT equipment.

Lastly, are you running external amps and such? I don't have much but it adds up to a recommendation of this model:

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PR3000SWRM2U.html

Just curious; thanks for your time!

Westom - I'll look into those specifications.

 

[westom]

Thanks for the advice. I wanted to ask, do you use this UPS for your computer or for your HT (perhaps for both)?

A UPS standard inside all laptops does more than any plug-in UPS might do. As you have learned from experience, 'dirtiest' power a computer will see typically comes from a UPS when in battery backup mode.

A UPS battery has a life expectancy of three years. Laptop batteries (if used properly) last seven and ten years. A UPS might be good for 15 minutes of power. Laptop has power for hours, if necessary.

On some desktops that have a UPS, its battery was not replaced. The need was rare and not worth the cost. If power goes off, only work from the past 15 minutes or one hour might be lost. Nothing else is lost or harmed. Blackouts are rare. And do not harm already saved data.

UPS is most often needed for servers.

 

[jp_over]

Ended up with this model:

http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=511553

Even if I upgrade later, I can always use one of these somewhere.

On an unrelated note, also ordered Radio Shack's digital sound meter - now I'm an official audioholic!

Here are the specifications for the surge protector:

* AC Plug Style: Low-Profile plug
* AC Rating: 15A/125V/1875W
* Circuit Total Joules: 3996J
* Clamping Voltage: 500V
* EMI/RFI Noise Filter: 150K Hz ~100M Hz, up to 43dB
* Max. Spike Current: 216,000 Amps
* Max. Spike Voltage: 6KV
* Not Grounded Indicator: Yes, Red
* Surge Indicator: Yes, Green
* Overload Protection: Yes
* Power Safety Shutdown: Yes

Thanks again for the responses thus far. I'm open to more advice but the budget right now does not include more than this model on surge protection. I may upgrade for my retirement system (at that point, whole house protection will be on the table) but my research in this area is just beginning.

Thanks again!

 

[westom]

Here are the specifications for the surge protector:

Where is a number that claims protection from each type of surge? Nothing in those specifications claimed surge protection.

Protector that costs less money and that actually do surge protection have that dedicated and always required wire. The always required short (ie less than 10 foot) connection to single point earth ground. Why does Belkin never discuss earthing? It does not claim protection from typically destructive types of surges. It does not have what is always necessary for surge protection.

The superior 'whole house' protector costs about $1 per protected appliance. A circuit similar to the Belkin is sold in grocery stores for about $7. How much for the Belkin? $25 per appliance?

 

[jp_over]

Where is a number that claims protection from each type of surge? Nothing in those specifications claimed surge protection.

Protector that costs less money and that actually do surge protection have that dedicated and always required wire. The always required short (ie less than 10 foot) connection to single point earth ground. Why does Belkin never discuss earthing? It does not claim protection from typically destructive types of surges. It does not have what is always necessary for surge protection.

The superior 'whole house' protector costs about $1 per protected appliance. A circuit similar to the Belkin is sold in grocery stores for about $7. How much for the Belkin? $25 per appliance?

Unfortunately, I'm limited to items I can plug in (point of use) since I live in military housing.

 

[Rickster71]

How does that protector's 2 cm part stop what three miles of sky could not?

At the risk of feeding the Cut and Paste Troll. Your statement assumes that all surges come from the sky.

 

[westom]

Unfortunately, I'm limited to items I can plug in (point of use) since I live in military housing.

Point of use protectors, in some cases, reduces protection already inside appliances. The word 'protector' does not means 'protection'.

Who pays for your electricity? If you do, then a superior solution is available from the electric company. Or install a kludge. Protectors close to appliances and farther from earth ground are ineffective. May even contribute to damage of any appliance on that circuit - connected to or not connected to that power strip.

Locate a receptacle closest to the breaker box. Cut its cord as short as possible (every foot means less protection). Connect that protector to that receptacle. Now that protector is closer to earth and farther from the appliance. Both mean better protection.

An IEEE brochure is quite blunt. TV1 was plugged into a 'point of use' protector. Distance to earth was excessive. So that protector earthed a surge 8000 volts destructively through nearby TV2. Once inside, then a surge selects which appliance to destroy; which appliance makes a better connection to earth. In the IEEE brochure, 8000 volts destructively through TV2.

Above cannot be explained in a soundbyte. Rereading it might be necessary.

A protector too close to appliances can present a surge with more paths destructively through nearby appliances. Power strip protectors sometimes make damage easier. Dr Martzloff's 1994 IEEE paper is blunt about damage due to 'point of use' (plug-in) protectors. His first conclusion:
> Conclusion:
> 1) Quantitative measurements in the Upside-Down house clearly show objectionable
> difference in reference voltages. These occur even when or perhaps because, surge
> protective devices are present at the point of connection of appliances.

Get a utility installed ‘whole house’ protector. Or modify and relocate that ‘point of use’ protector where it might do some protection.

 

[westom]

Your statement assumes that all surges come from the sky.

A 33,000 volt wire fell on local distribution. Hundreds of electric meters exploded from their pans. Many in pieces as far as 30 feet. So many had destroyed plug-in protectors and damaged appliances. At least one had a seized circuit breaker.

My friend knows someone who actually knows this stuff. He had one properly earthed 'whole house' protector. No appliance damage. Only his electric meter needed replacement.

Protection from lightning means protection from all types of destructive surges. A protector that does not make lightning irrelevant is ineffective protection.

 

[zumbo]

A little late back here, but I use my unit for my HT.

I purchased a unit that could handle 1600 watts. Not for the idea that I would actually run my system off of it, but for the idea the power may go out during use. And, it has.

Then, I can safely power my system down. Not continue to run it, as every one of these threads seem to turn into.

My tv has been zapped twice during stand-by mode(not in use) prior to the UPS connected. When the power cut on and off to the house during an outage, these spikes will and did damage my tv. I live in a wooded, hilly, old private lakes community with old above ground power lines.

Another great feature is that my dvr will continue to keep every setting, including not missing scheduled recordings during an outage.

 

[zumbo]

Ended up with this model:

http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=511553

I mean no offense, but this unit will do nothing for on/off voltage spikes during an outage.

In my honest opinion, this unit will reduce the available current for your avr/amp, which is why most amp manuals inform you to connect the amp directly to the wall outlet. Many inform you to only connect the amp at the outlet, and let no other appliance share that outlet.

I have a dedicated 20A wall outlet for my Cyberpower unit.

 

[jp_over]

Locate a receptacle closest to the breaker box. Cut its cord as short as possible (every foot means less protection). Connect that protector to that receptacle. Now that protector is closer to earth and farther from the appliance. Both mean better protection.

An IEEE brochure is quite blunt. TV1 was plugged into a 'point of use' protector. Distance to earth was excessive. So that protector earthed a surge 8000 volts destructively through nearby TV2. Once inside, then a surge selects which appliance to destroy; which appliance makes a better connection to earth. In the IEEE brochure, 8000 volts destructively through TV2.

Get a utility installed ‘whole house’ protector. Or modify and relocate that ‘point of use’ protector where it might do some protection.

Westom,

I appreciate the advice and I do plan on calling my electric provider when I get home to verify my operations. However, the on-post housing authority is brutal and, believe me, we're not allowed to do anything to the house except for hanging pictures & cutting the grass! If I were to tamper with any electrical in my home I'd be living on the economy in about 1/2 a heartbeat.

Other than the precautions I can take through point of use devices, my hands are tied in terms of modifying the house wiring. Either way, I need a way to split my outlets so, at a minimum, I need a power strip to cover all my devices (about 9) and preferably with delayed / trigger feature.

Update, I cancelled the order for the earlier mentioned power strip (Belkin Part # BV112234-08) and am forcing a budget adjustment. Here's the model I'm getting now (simply for the power cord management, power on delay for my amps, aesthetic appeal, and lastly surge protection):

Belkin PF60 PureAV™ Home Theater Power Console – Black
http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=178925

Of note, I also reviewed the Furman PS-8R II POWER CONDITIONER/SEQUENCER:

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=PS-8R_II

Price wise, it was more expensive (hard to find a place to ship it to AK for less than $50 & it costs more than the Belkin by about $100 on average). Also, I liked the outlet switching feature of the Belkin in addition to the ease of programming delays.

Thanks again!

 

[westom]

I mean no offense, but this unit will do nothing for on/off voltage spikes during an outage.

Power cycling does not create spikes or damage. Sometimes a power loss is preceded by a surge. The resulting damage is unknown until power is restore. Those who only use 'observation to know' then 'assume' power restoration created a destructive surge. Power loss (dropping voltage) does not create a surge (voltage exceeding 1000).

A blackout (not created by a surge) and power restoration do not harm electronics. But a slow power up during power restoration can stress motorized appliances (ie refrigerator, air conditioner). Therefore motorized appliances are best left off until power has been restored and stabilizes.

That slow power restoration is ideal for electronics. Sometimes we build a circuit inside electronics to create that 'brownout during power on'. That low voltage can sometimes increase electronic life expectancy.

Surge protection is for a completely different anomaly - a microseconds transient. Which may or may not be followed by power loss - a different anomaly. Both anomalies are electrically different. Are traditionally addressed at different locations by different devices.

 

[westom]

Of note, I also reviewed the Furman PS-8R II POWER CONDITIONER/SEQUENCER:
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=PS-8R_II

Viewing Furman specs, as best I can tell, it is the same protector circuit found in the Belkin and selling for $7 in a grocery store. Companies such as Furman and Monster have a history of hyping miracle solutions for obscene profits. I had seen a Furman selling for many $hundreds that was only a power strip protector with fancy paint and more receptacles. Calling it a line condition got many to recommend it as better.

As noted in a recent post, power on delay does nothing useful.

Your best bet (if the utility cannot have their meter reader girl install a 'whole house' protector behind your meter) is that kludge solution. A protector with its cord cut short and connected to the receptacle on the breaker box. Hopefully that receptacle (or find a receptacle) will be on the same phase as your appliances.

No surge protector does protection. Not one. Nada. A fact difficult due to so many myths and advertising. A protector that does something always has a short connection to earth. Always. Notice the Furman and Belkin do not. Earthing is what the utility 'whole house' protector does. And that is what you are attempting with the kludge solution. Connect that protector as short as possible to earth. Only earth does protection – not any protector.

 

[zumbo]

Power cycling does not create spikes or damage. Sometimes a power loss is preceded by a surge. The resulting damage is unknown until power is restore. Those who only use 'observation to know' then 'assume' power restoration created a destructive surge. Power loss (dropping voltage) does not create a surge (voltage exceeding 1000).

According to the tv repair man, an over voltage of some form was sent to my tv. The unit I use will alert me of what I am calling voltage spikes, with an alarm. The unit itself displays the high voltage input, and it's stable voltage output.

A blackout (not created by a surge) and power restoration do not harm electronics. But a slow power up during power restoration can stress motorized appliances (ie refrigerator, air conditioner). Therefore motorized appliances are best left off until power has been restored and stabilizes.

Yep. Been through a few refrigerators. And one central unit. Internal wires were melted in the indoor portion of the heat unit.

That slow power restoration is ideal for electronics. Sometimes we build a circuit inside electronics to create that 'brownout during power on'. That low voltage can sometimes increase electronic life expectancy.

And reduce voltage needed by my power hungry system, which is why my UPS will buck the voltage as well.

Surge protection is for a completely different anomaly - a microseconds transient. Which may or may not be followed by power loss - a different anomaly. Both anomalies are electrically different. Are traditionally addressed at different locations by different devices.

Surge protection is part of my unit as well. Have a read.

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PR2200LCDRT2U.html

 

[westom]

The unit I use will alert me of what I am calling voltage spikes, with an alarm. The unit itself displays the high voltage input, and it's stable voltage output.

Here is where it gets more interesting. For example, you can put two different electric currents on the same wire. And have two different receivers see one while never seeing the other. Both currents simultaneously on the same wire.

What will your meter measure? A current that is incoming on one wire and outgoing on the other? Then it would not see another current that is incoming on one or both. And is outgoing destructively through a TV.

Let's assume that current is incoming on both wires. Then the meter sees zero volts while that current might create 8000 volts destructively through the TV.

Furthermore, a destructive surge is done in microseconds. Just another reason why your meter will never measure that maybe 8000 volts. And why a meter reports nothing useful.

Second, any bucking required to the voltage is already done by every electronic supply. Again, voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. That is ideal power to all electronics because of what every power supply already does.

Why are your lights routinely not dimming to 50% or 70% intensity? Because those voltages might harm motorized appliances. Utility must maintain voltage well above that '50% intensity' level. Or disconnect power. Just another reason why the UPS is not providing any hardware protection. It is curing something that is not a problem.

Third, show me where that Cyberpower lists protection from each type of surge? Please provide the number and why it is relevant. I see nothing that claims protection from any destructive surge.

 

[jp_over]

solution = insurance

Friends,
Just thought I’d give a final update.

BLUF – I have concluded that insurance (be it personal property / renter’s or homeowner’s) is the end-all-be-all of electronics protection short of (inadvertent pun which perhaps plumbs the depths of malfeasance and moral turpitude!), unplugging for every lightening storm or possible power threat.

For my own peace of mind, I'm getting some renter's insurance to dress up my Belkin P60. This will cover lightening strikes and other events which cause catastrophic electrical failures since my power protection options are limited (at least, until we move into our retirement home in ~10-14 years).

For anyone who has to move frequently (such as military) or folks who simply don’t own their places, it’s my opinion that renter’s/personal property insurance is a good bet if you get it from a reputable company. I used a calculator to figure out if we had a total house catastrophe we’d be out like $65k-75k . Ouch - that would hurt to have to pay this out at one time! We’d be shopping at the Salvation Army for a bit!

Insurance from my bank (USAA) is around $250 per year. I think I’m going to call this one a worthwhile preventative investment until I own my own home (again).

Once I do own my own home, believe me, I’m going with some whole-house protection + homeowner’s insurance + point of use protection (less emphasis on this last).

 

[zumbo]

Third, show me where that Cyberpower lists protection from each type of surge? Please provide the number and why it is relevant. I see nothing that claims protection from any destructive surge.

1,780 Joules is what it states in the link posted previously.

I know the difference the appliance has made for me. I clearly understand you see no need for the product. That is fine with me.

I feel I needed it, as mentioned about my tv problems. I explained to the best of my ability my problematic experiences. I have had 0 further problems in a period of about four years, give or take.

So, I conclude that I am getting protected.

Not in this thread to debate you. I dropped-in to recommend a product for someone asking for a recommendation. I see the OP has made a decision, and that about sums it up for me.