$4500 Home Theater Audio Recommendations

J

jcroasii

Enthusiast
Hello All,

I'm new to the audioholics forum and I'm very happy to have found a place to discuss home theaters. I've been to the site many times but never had a reason to do some serious research into home theaters until now. I'm in the process of planning my basement home theater and need some advice.

I almost made a mistake of purchasing a Bose V35 system without really testing anything else. The system in the Bose studio sound great to me but after reading some articles, many people think you can build a much better system for the same price. At very least, Bose does a great job at marketing.

I'm looking to build a home theater audio setup (5.1) for around $4500. This is only for the audio though. I'm looking for the best system I can get for that price range.

Required Devices:
-Receiver
-Front Speakers
-Center Channel
-Surround Speakers
-Sub woofer

This is the setup I was thinking:
-Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-33 ($1000)
-Front Speakers: 2x Bowers and Wilkins CM8 ($2200)
-Center Channel: Bowers and Wilkins CMC ($650)
-Surround Speakers: 2x Definitive SR-8040BP ($500)
-Sub Woofer: Rel T2 200 watt ($800)

Total Cost: $5150 (maybe a little more than i want to spend)

I have a room that's 15ft x 19ft. The TV will be on the 15ft wall.

Usage:
60% - Movies
35% - Games
5% - Music
Total Usage: 2-3 hours per day

So here are my questions:
-Is this too much system for the room? (I could save a lot by going with Bose)

-What is the best system I can build for $5000, $3000?

-Can I get a better sounding system for the Bose price of $3000?

-Are the costs correctly distributed? (Is it best to put the most money in the front speakers and receiver?)

If you have any recommended configurations for the $3000 - $4500 price range, please share.

Thank you. I appreciate it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nomo

Nomo

Audioholic Samurai
Sounds like a pretty good set-up for that size room.
One thing that jumps out at me is the sub. If I googled it correctly it's an 8".
You'll be missing out on quite a bit of LFE with it.
I'd suggest looking at SVS instead. It won't save you much at all, maybe cost a bit more, but the end result would be much improved.

Will it sound better than Bose? :eek:

Umm..... Ya!!
 
Nomo

Nomo

Audioholic Samurai
I didn't catch the fact the OP was in the DYI section.
I've responded here.

Hopefully the mods will delete the double post.
Once they sober up.:D

Sounds like a pretty good set-up for that size room.
One thing that jumps out at me is the sub. If I googled it correctly it's an 8".
You'll be missing out on quite a bit of LFE with it.
I'd suggest looking at SVS instead. It won't save you much at all, maybe cost a bit more, but the end result would be much improved.

Will it sound better than Bose?

Umm..... Ya!!
 
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
I originally posted this under the DIY forum, which I think was the wrong place for this type of post.

----------
Hello All,

I'm new to the audioholics forum and I'm very happy to have found a place to discuss home theaters. I've been to the site many times but never had a reason to do some serious research into home theaters until now. I'm in the process of planning my basement home theater and need some advice.

I almost made a mistake of purchasing a Bose V35 system without really testing anything else. The system in the Bose studio sound great to me but after reading some articles, many people think you can build a much better system for the same price. At very least, Bose does a great job at marketing.

I'm looking to build a home theater audio setup (5.1) for around $4500. This is only for the audio though. I'm looking for the best system I can get for that price range.

Required Devices:
-Receiver
-Front Speakers
-Center Channel
-Surround Speakers
-Sub woofer

This is the setup I was thinking:
-Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-33 ($1000)
-Front Speakers: 2x Bowers and Wilkins CM8 ($2200)
-Center Channel: Bowers and Wilkins CMC ($650)
-Surround Speakers: 2x Definitive SR-8040BP ($500)
-Sub Woofer: Rel T2 200 watt ($800)

Total Cost: $5150 (maybe a little more than i want to spend)

I have a room that's 15ft x 19ft. The TV will be on the 15ft wall.

Usage:
60% - Movies
35% - Games
5% - Music
Total Usage: 2-3 hours per day

So here are my questions:
-Is this too much system for the room? (I could save a lot by going with Bose)

-What is the best system I can build for $5000, $3000?

-Can I get a better sounding system for the Bose price of $3000?

-Are the costs correctly distributed? (Is it best to put the most money in the front speakers and receiver?)

If you have any recommended configurations for the $3000 - $4500 price range, please share.

Thank you. I appreciate it.
That is a great budget for a room your size if rationed appropriately.

I don't know your aesthetic concerns or if the basement is prewired or able to be wired, so I'll take some liberty with the layout. We have done this system (variations) in family rooms and basements a few times and the results have been outstanding...

Front L/C/R: Jamo D 500 LCR THX Select2 on-wall speakers in Gloss Black. $349/ea. = $1050 for front 3. http://www.jamo.com/eu-en/products/d-500-lcr-description/

Rear Surrounds: Jamo IW 606 SUR in-wall Bi/Dipole surround (to be installed in the sides of your room). $529/ea. = $1060 NOTE: These can be had for half of that per speaker from a reputable dealer so I'll price them at $550 for the pair. Being in-wall makes them more aesthetically friendly for a non-dedicated room. http://www.jamo.com/eu-en/products/iw-606-sur-description/

Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-32 $800. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/VSX-32

No sense in the VSX-33. Why? UNLESS YOU NEED THE 3RD ZONE OR XM FEATURE THE 32 & 33 ARE EXACLTY THE SAME UNIT. I'm a Pioneer Elite dealer and these are the only practical differences in the two models. Everything else is identical. They will work and sound exactly the same for movies. I love the new Pioneer Elite pieces and have switched over to them after being direct with Marantz for the past 3 years. Under $600 I would recommend the Onkyo pieces, above $600 I really like Pioneer's direction. Denon is available to me as well, but I don't care for it as much. They've become underwhelming to me over the past few years.

Subwoofer: I would recommend the Phase Technology PC SUB WL-12 http://www.phasetech.com/products.html?product_id=WL-12&sub=1 which retails at $1775 but can fit within your price constraints.

This system would be phenomenal for what your described needs/wants when considering your room size and would come in around your $3K budget.

What would I do to make it better and come in at $4500? I would change the system to have 2 subwoofers and use the PC SUB WL-10 models instead. You would still be under the $4500 budget and there isn't anything else you could justify spending more money on unless it were subwoofer related and get any sort of quality increase. The 2 subwoofer system would be a BIG difference in your experience and I would highly recommend it over the single subwoofer setup. However, that takes you from around mid $3k in the $4500 area.

Either system will play LOUD without distortion while providing a clean & modern look with on-wall & in-wall mains & surrounds, but the 2 subwoofer setup will be much smoother on the low end. You would have to experiment in terms of placement with the subs, but either two up front as a L/R or one in a front corner and one in the back opposite corner are usually good places to start.

As far as pricing goes, either of these systems would retail far above your budgets but after looking at my dealer cost sheets I think you should be able to comfortably purchase these systems within either budgets as long as the dealer doesn't have to go install it. Either of these would far and away be better appropriations of your money than the B&W/REL system.

Hope this helps!
 
J

jcroasii

Enthusiast
That is a great budget for a room your size if rationed appropriately.

I don't know your aesthetic concerns or if the basement is prewired or able to be wired, so I'll take some liberty with the layout. We have done this system (variations) in family rooms and basements a few times and the results have been outstanding...

Front L/C/R: Jamo D 500 LCR THX Select2 on-wall speakers in Gloss Black. $349/ea. = $1050 for front 3.

Rear Surrounds: Jamo IW 606 SUR in-wall Bi/Dipole surround (to be installed in the sides of your room). $529/ea. = $1060 NOTE: These can be had for half of that per speaker from a reputable dealer so I'll price them at $550 for the pair. Being in-wall makes them more aesthetically friendly for a non-dedicated room.

Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-32 $800.

No sense in the VSX-33. Why? UNLESS YOU NEED THE 3RD ZONE OR XM FEATURE THE 32 & 33 ARE EXACLTY THE SAME UNIT. I'm a Pioneer Elite dealer and these are the only practical differences in the two models. Everything else is identical. They will work and sound exactly the same for movies. I love the new Pioneer Elite pieces and have switched over to them after being direct with Marantz for the past 3 years. Under $600 I would recommend the Onkyo pieces, above $600 I really like Pioneer's direction. Denon is available to me as well, but I don't care for it as much. They've become underwhelming to me over the past few years.

Subwoofer: I would recommend the Phase Technology PC SUB WL-12 which retails at $1775 but can fit within your price constraints.

This system would be phenomenal for what your described needs/wants when considering your room size and would come in around your $3K budget.

What would I do to make it better and come in at $4500? I would change the system to have 2 subwoofers and use the PC SUB WL-10 models instead. You would still be under the $4500 budget and there isn't anything else you could justify spending more money on unless it were subwoofer related and get any sort of quality increase. The 2 subwoofer system would be a BIG difference in your experience and I would highly recommend it over the single subwoofer setup. However, that takes you from around mid $3k in the $4500 area.

Either system will play LOUD without distortion while providing a clean & modern look with on-wall & in-wall mains & surrounds, but the 2 subwoofer setup will be much smoother on the low end. You would have to experiment in terms of placement with the subs, but either two up front as a L/R or one in a front corner and one in the back opposite corner are usually good places to start.

As far as pricing goes, either of these systems would retail far above your budgets but after looking at my dealer cost sheets I think you should be able to comfortably purchase these systems within either budgets as long as the dealer doesn't have to go install it. Either of these would far and away be better appropriations of your money than the B&W/REL system.

Hope this helps!
I've never heard Jamo. Are these speakers generally better for my setup than the B&W? I noticed they are THX Select 2 certified. One concern I have, whether naive or not, is that they are bookshelf speakers. Aren't floor standing speakers generally better?

Also, on the pioneer receiver, is there a method for hooking up a 2nd subwoofer?

I'm building this room from scratch. I'll be tearing down the paneling, installing acoustic insulation, Quietrock drywall, and sound panels (on walls and ceiling) to absorb the sounds. My TV will be 60 or 65 inch Plasma. Will this affect the type of speaker to purchase? Needless to say, I don't have much concern for aesthetics. I'd much rather have a premium sound than a pretty looking speaker system.

Thank you so much for the help. I'm pretty new to home audio, so it's nice to have people here that have experience with this.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
Your room isn't all that big, so a good set of bookshelves paired with a sub or 2 can still easily drive you out.
For a second sub, you can use a Y-adapter/cable.

Denon 3311 (I'm partial to the Audyssey suite of features)

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBIMT5
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBIMC5
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBIMB5
Going a less expensive speaker route, for around $1200 shipped you could purchase an Ascend Acoustics CMT-340/CMT-340C/CBM-170 combo. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html
http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/empire.html

For a true HT experience:

JVC HD250
http://www.carada.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=PROJECTION-SCREEN-H126C
 
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I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
I've never heard Jamo. Are these speakers generally better for my setup than the B&W? I noticed they are THX Select 2 certified. One concern I have, whether naive or not, is that they are bookshelf speakers. Aren't floor standing speakers generally better?

Also, on the pioneer receiver, is there a method for hooking up a 2nd subwoofer?

I'm building this room from scratch. I'll be tearing down the paneling, installing acoustic insulation, Quietrock drywall, and sound panels (on walls and ceiling) to absorb the sounds. My TV will be 60 or 65 inch Plasma. Will this affect the type of speaker to purchase? Needless to say, I don't have much concern for aesthetics. I'd much rather have a premium sound than a pretty looking speaker system.

Thank you so much for the help. I'm pretty new to home audio, so it's nice to have people here that have experience with this.
All good questions!

- Jamo is the largest speaker manufacturer in Europe. The older (early 2000's) Jamo THX systems are several times European Multi-Channel System of the year award winners. The D 500 & D 600 models are brand new updated versions of those systems. Slightly redesigned but more practically to be aesthetically more pleasing. I'm bummed that the new 15" THX Ultra subwoofer is not shipping yet, which should be soon. They've changed the date on me 3 times now so I'm not holding my breath or recommending them yet. But I have seen pricing for it & that would fit around your budget as well. It's model is D 600 SUB & it retails at $1800. I used quite a few of the last D6/7 THX model subs from Jamo and they were fantastic as well.

- Are towers better? Generally, for movie systems, NO, they are not better. At least, not for your room size. People who buy towers with a primary eye towards multichannel movie watching are typically over buying unless they like them aesthetically or don't want bookshelves on stands or need something to stand on its own because they can't in-wall or wall mount. Why?

Explained simply..... Movie sound tracks are NOT mixed with the ideal intention of sending information to the main 5/6/7 speakers below 80hz. Meaning: 80hz is the lowest output you will need your mains to do. Everything lower should go to your subwoofers. This is why "full range" speakers are not needed for movie systems.... If the difficult low end of the "range" is sent to the subs, why pay for a tower that can go lower? You shouldn't! Now, if your room were way way bigger in terms of cubic volume than you would look for speakers with larger drivers that could hit 80hz cleanly without breaking up while still being loud. These could be "towers" or really large Monitors with bigger drivers, like Atlantic Technology's 8200e system. Or you could use something like the Jamo D 600 for a room sized in between. In your room, however, the D 500 is perfect.

Some systems, like Phase Technology's dARTS get incredibly loud but do so by using 5 1/4" & 6 1/2" drivers in their mains that are designed to work in conjunction with their high output subwoofers to deliver "full range" movie sound. Those systems are $15,000 to $30,000.

Other companies, DefTech comes to mind, put subwoofers in the bottom of their "towers" (which, IMO, is NOT the optimal thing to do. But that's another thread completely). Let's examine this type of "Tower" for a second.... If the bottom of the "Tower" is a sealed sub, then what is the top?......... A bookshelf/monitor! Those types of speakers are essentially bookshelf/monitors sitting on a sub, accept that you see only see one piece of equipment. Make sense?

In your case, a tower that goes down to say, for example, 40hz is useless. Those speakers will never see that lower information in your setup/listening preferences in your sized room because when you set up your receiver you're going to cross everything over from the mains to the sub at 80hz. And, on top of that, in your size room the Jamo system will NOT break up or distort at any real world volume level.

- As far as aesthetics are concerned.... why not have both? There are options out there that will let you do so. If the Jamo speakers I recommended do so for you.... great! If not.... keep searching! Jamo also makes a complimentary THX on-wall surround that is part of the D 500 system. The D 500 SUR retails at $699 and would NOT add to the cost of your system should you switch from the in-walls. These would be the optimal way to go. Since I didn't know the design concerns of the room, I went with in-walls. Either way will provide excellent results.

- Two subwoofers is easy. use a Y splitter out of the back of the receiver. The Phase Tech subs I recommended are wireless, but only one can be wireless per system. If you can, I would hardwire for two subs back to your receiver and then just use a Y splitter cable.

- The Jamos will lay out underneath your flat screen and will look really cool....

D7-env_med.jpg

We've done this system a few times. It is no Joke & very well respected. I highly recommend it without reservation for your size room and budget.

There are other things to do as well, but you would have to spend more money and I could promise a different layout/look, but not really a night and day performance difference.
 
Kai

Kai

Full Audioholic
I'm a fan of Pioneer and I liked the B&W speakers I've heard at a friends house so I like your choices regarding the receiver and speakers.
I have no experience with the sub so no comments.

My rule of thumb is to listen to suggestions, listen to a variety of gear in my price range and just a bit above using my demo cd and several favorite movie dvd's, buy what sounds best to my ears.

Perhaps the receiver is a tad more than you need but if it has what you want compared to other offerings, and you like the sound, get it and enjoy.

Speakers are a very subjective buy. It is all about your ears, not only what you hear but your training and learning. You can learn to hear the deficiencies of any speaker if you are taught to hear the differences and deficiencies but that does not necessarily make your HT/audio experience a good one.

If you love the sound of what you have posted get them and enjoy them every day.

Make sure you take pics...plenty of pics...hehehe.
Good luck and enjoy the experience.
 
J

jcroasii

Enthusiast
All good questions!

- Are towers better? Generally, for movie systems, NO, they are not better. At least, not for your room size. People who buy towers with a primary eye towards multichannel movie watching are typically over buying unless they like them aesthetically or don't want bookshelves on stands or need something to stand on its own because they can't in-wall or wall mount.
What about the Definitive XTR-60? Those are the real thin speakers that are more visually appealing but I wonder how they perform. Would these sound decent? Better or worse than the Jamo D 500/600?

Another thing, I've read the audioholics article on frequency response, and read other articles on the Hz of speakers. Is there a good rule when looking at the frequency range of a set of speakers? For example, I wouldn't think you'd want to get front speakers with a range of 80hz-44Khz and have a sub that has a range of 20hz- 60hz. Well, that is if there is such a sub. My concern is that with the Jamos starting at 80hz, does the sub have to produce more of the sounds up to the 80hz, and won't I hear a more tinny sound from the speakers if it doesn't do lower than 80hz. I wouldn't think you'd want the sub to take over sounds too early. I could be thinking about this all wrong, but that's why I'm seeking help on the issue.

Thank you so much for the help. I really don't have much experience with this and am trying to learn all I can before I make a bad decision. Everyone here has been great!
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
What about the Definitive XTR-60? Those are the real thin speakers that are more visually appealing but I wonder how they perform. Would these sound decent? Better or worse than the Jamo D 500/600?

Another thing, I've read the audioholics article on frequency response, and read other articles on the Hz of speakers. Is there a good rule when looking at the frequency range of a set of speakers? For example, I wouldn't think you'd want to get front speakers with a range of 80hz-44Khz and have a sub that has a range of 20hz- 60hz. Well, that is if there is such a sub. My concern is that with the Jamos starting at 80hz, does the sub have to produce more of the sounds up to the 80hz, and won't I hear a more tinny sound from the speakers if it doesn't do lower than 80hz. I wouldn't think you'd want the sub to take over sounds too early. I could be thinking about this all wrong, but that's why I'm seeking help on the issue.

Thank you so much for the help. I really don't have much experience with this and am trying to learn all I can before I make a bad decision. Everyone here has been great!
Those Definitive speakers you mentioned are more of a "lifestyle" speaker than a dynamic, high impact speaker such as the JTR or Jamo.

If you go on the Audioholics main webpage you will find a bunch of articles on how to setup your system. A great way to make a more informed decision and not totally rely on internet strangers;).
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/bass-management-basics-2013-settings-made-simple
 
D

drman

Enthusiast
Similar question, slightly different specs

I have a very similar issue with a couple of differences. I'm finishing my basement - 21' x 15' with the TV on the 15' wall. My budget range is about the same $3K - $4K for speakers and receiver. The only difference is that I'm about 50/50 music and movies. Would the bookshelf speakers still give me adequate music performance for that budget, or would I be better off spending a bit less on the sub(s) and more on floor standing speakers? I'm also wondering about the benefits of 7.1 vs. 5.1 surround.

Thank you.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
Depends on the bookshelf. I'd have no problem running a pair of Def Tech SM450s/Energy Veritas V-5.1/Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1s/Salk SongSurround I/IIs with dual Epik Legends for your scenario. Do you have some speakers in mind?

5 vs 7 is subjective but I'd prefer 7 in your room. Is your room set up for a good 7.2 implementation?
 
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D

drman

Enthusiast
Depends on the bookshelf. I'd have no problem running a pair of Def Tech SM450s/Energy Veritas V-5.1/Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1s with dual Epik Legends for your scenario. Do you have some speakers in mind?

5 vs 7 is subjective but I'd prefer 7 in your room. Is your room set up for a good 7.2 implementation?
Thanks for the reply. I'm a novice and trying to learn all I can so I spend wisely, so any advice is appreciated.

I think the room is a good setup for 7.1. It's 21' x 15' fully enclosed and I can center the seating and install side-speakers (do you still call those rears in 7.1?) at the same distance from the TV as seating and rears about 8' behind seating.

I listened to and got a quote for the following. I've searched some online and I think the quote is high, maybe even over MSRP for some components.

Integra DTR 40.2 $1000
2 Paradigm Monitor 7 towers $798
1 Paradigm CC-290 Center $549
4 Paradigm ADP-190 Dipole Surrounds $996
1 Paradigm Ultracube 10 Sub $999

Total: $4342
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
Cool, a dedicated room, I think. I'm quite sure we can improve on that system. But it's ultimately up to your ears. Are you in the States or Canada?

A good sub can make or break an excellent HT experience and there are many subs that will outperform the UltraCube 10 for the money.

Better option for a receiver: http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR1008-9-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B003PGR130/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1297033282&sr=1-1 or http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR808-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B003N197EI/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1297033070&sr=1-3

The sides are sides and only rears in a 7.1, they should just be called surrounds in a 5.1 system.
 
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D

drman

Enthusiast
It is a dedicated media room. I'm finishing up the wiring and just about ready to drywall, so I have to make a decision on 5.1 vs. 7.1 (or 9.1??). I'm leaning toward 7.1.

The tech actually spec'd out the Paradigm DSP 3200 sub but didn't have the 12" for me to hear. I asked him to price the Ultracube after hearing it. If anything, it almost seemed to overpower the Monitor 7s, though maybe that was just the way it was set up.

The TX-NR100 looks good. I wasn't sure what Integra added to Onkyo specs other than price.

I'm in the States.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
A properly setup sub should not bring any attention to itself. There was a member here, Clouso, who climbed the Paradigm chain to the Studio Sub 12 and ended up with the HSU VTF-15H.
 
D

drman

Enthusiast
Would I be better off with 2 smaller subs than 1 12"? As far as placement, I've read that you need to experiment with a 2 sub configuration to decide whether 2 in front or 1 front and 1 rear works best. I suppose in configuring wiring I could wire 2 front and 1 rear to give me maximum flexibility ... unless I need expensive wiring for the subs. Should I use the same type of wire for the sub(s) that I use for all speakers?

Are there alternatives to any of the speakers I listed above that you would recommend I check out?

Sorry, I've got so many questions.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
These days the theory is that multiple subs are better than one to even out the bass response, which is why I recommended the dual Epik Legends: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass

I run my subs at the mid-sidewall locations and you’d never know sonically that’s where they’re positioned,

For subs, coax cable is generally used: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236

There are many speaker options available, I mentioned some PSBs in post #8.

An Ascend Acoustics CMT-340/CMT-340C/HTM-200 combo with Emotiva ERD-1s for side-surrounds would be nice. The surrounds don’t necessarily need to match the fronts.

Polk RTi-A line
Def Tech
Aperion
Axiom
Energy
B&W
Jamo
Kef
Infinity
Klipsch
Monitor Audio
 

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