What happened at this site?

[Pyrrho]

I was away for a while, and have recently started posting again. But I find that many people here now seem unable to properly read reviews that are made by Audioholics, and imagine that they say things that they clearly do not say. A case in point is the fuss over the review of a new Hsu subwoofer, the VTF-15H, which is extremely positive, but many imagine is negative:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/vtf-15h

Audioholics gives it the highest rating for value, and says "it was hands down, the “BEST BUY” of the group of subs we compared." Now how the hell does one interpret that as a negative review? Have people gone completely mad here?

 

[GranteedEV]

People were expecting a 6moons esque joygasm about how this thing creates earthquakes in other continents. They got a down to earth and honest review and started hyperventilating.

 

[majorloser]

There hasn't been one thread about a subwoofer review that doesn't turn into a fanboy vs. bashers fest. Suwoofers from ID companies are the worst for bringing out the fights. Don't know what it is about subwoofers that does this to people.

 

[jamie2112]

I like turtles

 

[skers_54]

I was away for a while, and have recently started posting again. But I find that many people here now seem unable to properly read reviews that are made by Audioholics, and imagine that they say things that they clearly do not say. A case in point is the fuss over the review of a new Hsu subwoofer, the VTF-15H, which is extremely positive, but many imagine is negative:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/vtf-15h

Audioholics gives it the highest rating for value, and says "it was hands down, the “BEST BUY” of the group of subs we compared." Now how the hell does one interpret that as a negative review? Have people gone completely mad here?

I've been away for a while too and my sentiments echo yours exactly. The demonstrated lack of reading comprehension in the Hsu thread is appalling. How hard is it to understand that Hsu made a big box less obtrusive but in the end it's still a big heavy box?

And since when do readers of this site place more credability in manufacturer specs than objective 3rd party measurements?

Gene and Paul have shown outstanding restraint at the ignorance exhibited regarding this review (and the shootout in general).

 

[KEW]

I think Gene also mentioned somewhere that the reviewer was a very critical person by nature, and this was the least expensive of the four subs being compared, so it makes sense that there would be statements in the review where the Hsu fell short of the standard set by the others. Unfortunately, many people seem to have tunnel vision on the statements that it was less than perfect rather than the qualifying statements about it being an excellent combination of compromises to provide great performance at a reasonable price!
The other thing is that by the time this review came out, buzz had been created on other forums about the AH review, so many of the posters are not mainstream AH forum members, or as Grant put it they are used to the joygasm reviews.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Audioholics actually wrote a REAL review of a subwoofer. That is what happened. This has generated a lot of buzz outside of AH regulars. What most people read outside of AH for "reviews" these days by the audio industry press are actually advertorials.

 

[Pyrrho]

There hasn't been one thread about a subwoofer review that doesn't turn into a fanboy vs. bashers fest. Suwoofers from ID companies are the worst for bringing out the fights. Don't know what it is about subwoofers that does this to people.

I really can't relate to this sort of thing. I am not upset when someone tells me my gear isn't the best ever made.

And in this particular case, it really doesn't make any sense even if one is a fan of Hsu. The subwoofer that was reviewed was not the top of the line Hsu subwoofer. If it had been unbeatable, it would mean that Hsu is ripping people off with their more expensive model. So anyone who respects Hsu should agree that the model reviewed is beatable, and that one can buy a better subwoofer.

 

[Pyrrho]

I've been away for a while too and my sentiments echo yours exactly. The demonstrated lack of reading comprehension in the Hsu thread is appalling. How hard is it to understand that Hsu made a big box less obtrusive but in the end it's still a big heavy box?

And since when do readers of this site place more credability in manufacturer specs than objective 3rd party measurements?

Gene and Paul have shown outstanding restraint at the ignorance exhibited regarding this review (and the shootout in general).

I agree that they have shown remarkable restraint. I would be livid if I were them. As it is, I am astonished at the reactions to the review, which seem as if people did not read the review, but just made up something else and responded to that instead of the actual review.

 

[just-some-guy]

Have people gone completely mad here?

man, its NOT just here. its the whole freakin world .
just imagine what things are going too be like 10-20-30 years from now =

 

[emorphien]

man, its NOT just here. its the whole freakin world .
just imagine what things are going too be like 10-20-30 years from now =

Can you throw stones at people through your monitor?

 

[TLS Guy]

There hasn't been one thread about a subwoofer review that doesn't turn into a fanboy vs. bashers fest. Suwoofers from ID companies are the worst for bringing out the fights. Don't know what it is about subwoofers that does this to people.

I know, that is the problem. I have said for years that there is far to much emphasis on subs. I think the weighting of money to subs in almost all systems here is too high and much more relatively should be spent on the other speakers.

Just this afternoon a thread turned interesting about bass management. It caused me to research 5.1 and 7.1 mastering. On one very good site an engineer made a statement I heartily concur with. "The subwoofer is the least important part of any audio system." He went on to show spectro graphs of power versus frequency to prove the point. His results mirror my own exactly. In my surveys, wandering demo rooms, subs are turned up to unseemly levels in a vain attempt to mask a bunch of dreadful speakers. It never fools me.

The obsession with subs on this and other forums is, I believe severely impairing the quality per dollars spent of member's systems.

If a system can't sound good without a sub, it is a lousy system, period.

When putting a system together in stages, the sub should be the last item purchased.

 

[Matt34]

If only people spent as much time optimizing their sub to their room/system than they do bickering about a review....

 

[Alex2507]

When putting a system together in stages, the sub should be the last item purchased.

Every time someone says that a fairy drops dead.

First the mains.
Then the sub.
Period.

 

[Ares]

Every time someone says that a fairy drops dead.

First the mains.
Then the sub.
Period.

That could explain why they went extinct.. I thought the main purpose of reviews was to have a critical analysis of the product in question and let the chips fall where the may. There will always be those who will get bent out of shape when they feel that there favorite brand has been dissed, all you can do is laugh and move on.

 

[Nomo]

Every time someone says that a fairy drops dead.

Somewhere, Justin Bieber is scared.

 

[Rickster71]

Somewhere, Justin Bieber is scared.

Could be because of all those compromising pictures of Alex and him.
Just sayin.

 

[Swerd]

The obsession with subs on this and other forums is, I believe severely impairing the quality per dollars spent of member's systems.

If a system can't sound good without a sub, it is a lousy system, period.

When putting a system together in stages, the sub should be the last item purchased.

I (again) completely agree with TLS.

Good sound is all about the midrange. It is difficult to do well, judging by the numbers of commercial products that fail at this. In comparison, good bass is much easier to do. But deep bass performance, below ~30 Hz, costs a lot and adds little if anything to music.

 

[GranteedEV]

I (again) completely agree with TLS.

Good sound is all about the midrange. It is difficult to do well, judging by the numbers of commercial products that fail at this. In comparison, good bass is much easier to do. But deep bass performance, below ~30 Hz, costs a lot and adds little if anything to music.

what you fail to realize is that the average person uses ipod earbuds for music! home theater is often the motivator for many systems.

in my case my sub blends in too well. at most it adds an extra octave / some weightyness to some instruments. the issue is that people have actually been actually dissapointed by the lack of bloat and heavy distortion in hearing my system.

In that sense one may wonder what value there is in 115eb capability... to which i point not to music but to movies like how to train you dragon!

 

[psbfan9]

Subsequently

Most of you would be appalled at my system setup, but I enjoy it and it sounds good to me....

The sub I have was the last component added to my system. Not because I knew better, but for the simple reason during an action scene, I wanted to feel it. I was opposed to subs and 'extended bass'. I would be out driving and hear this pounding, hubcap rattling, car shaking noise coming from cars next to me and it just turned me off. Being ignorant, but learning, I myself wanted a sub for effect in movies not ear drum blistering bass in music. I saw a sub that was priced right and I bought it. That was that.

I'm almost never so committed to a product line that it blinds my common sense or sense of what sounds good. If I'm wrong about something, it's a learning opportunity.

2 things to never discuss with friends, politics and religion. It may be time to add a third thing, stereo equipment.