Suggestion for rear surround

bigbassdave

bigbassdave

Full Audioholic
About a year ago I bought a Klipsch Quintet III set used for a great price. I thought I would be happy with it in my small man room. Long story short I was not pleased with the sound. Since then I have replaced all but two of the tiny satelites which I am now using as my rear surrounds in a 7.1 setup. Please refer to my sig for the man room. I'm looking to replace these and I'm on a very tight budget of about $200. I am a big fan of buying used. I would love some suggestions as to what brands/models to search for on my local craigslist. Thanks.
 
psbfan9

psbfan9

Audioholic Samurai
New for under $200.00

PSB - Alpha LR1 - Bookshelf - $199.00 pr.

PSB - Alpha CLR1 - $169.00
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
A used pair of Q4's would be perfect...:D. No, I'm not selling mine.:)
 
bigbassdave

bigbassdave

Full Audioholic
A used pair of Q4's would be perfect...:D. No, I'm not selling mine.:)
Haha even if I said please? I wouldn't mind a pair of Qs4's back there at all but that would be very hard to find in my price range.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
See if you can find Ascend 170SE as used, and if they need to remain very small, you may check out the HTM200. If willing to drive, I suppose you can save on shipping, but then again there's the gas money . . .

I own and have owned many PSBs and I do not recommend the LR1. The B1, ok, but the Ascend 170SE is better (and it should be for the cost). However, the 170 is not so pretty, but from what I've seen when mounted up high, no one really notices and it's just black so to speak.

I gotta run, I'll check out the video some other time . . .
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
You don't need 7.1 in there. If you insist on 7.1, I will insist that your side surrounds are at 90 degrees, or at least much closer to it. Those four surrounds all right next to each other, I wonder if that does more harm than good TBH. Is that bookshelf on the left simply unremovable? A bit of a shame that it is creating the asymmetry, as well as perhaps disallowing better side surround placements. You should also tweak the main speakers away from the two boundaries, as well as both lift and tilt the center speaker. After that, you might consider treating the areas near the main speakers, because I think that even if you did follow my advice about tweaking their placement, that they would still remain too close to the multiple boundaries. The reflections will be extremely early and very high in relative SPL.
 
bigbassdave

bigbassdave

Full Audioholic
The bookshelf is not staying. In my last place I had the side surrounds at 90 degrees and was never crazy about the effects. Having the surround effects in front of the listening position just seemed to make it so I didn't notice them as much. I agree 7.1 is not needed I didn't think it would hurt to have the rear surrounds up though. Maybe I'll use them as front height speakers instead. I have no experience with this but it could be a nice effect? Treating the room in some way is a great idea. I would love any advice on exactly how to do this or what to use as I've never done that before. As you can see I am limited in size and I don't have a lot of options with the front towers. In regards to the center it will be angled up toward the listening position. Thanks
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Not just tilt of the center, but lifted too as I already mentioned. I vote for 90 deg side surrounds over height speakers. 90 degrees is next to you, not in front of you! You could try something like 100 degrees, just barely behind you, as it will still be taking a big share of that huge area between the mains and rears.

The mains, you don't have much leeway, but whatever that leeway is, work with it as much as you can. Please experiment with toe-in. If that was my place I can nearly guarantee you that I would using way* more toe-in than you do.
 
bigbassdave

bigbassdave

Full Audioholic
Ok I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. I was interpreting 90 degrees as halfway down the wall between the front and back of the room. The video is misleading as the room is not setup yet. Please picture the two chairs against the back wall. They are not being set in the center of the room. So the Axiom side surrounds are in fact at 90 degrees. I will experiment with toe in for the front speakers and I'll see what I can do for the center. What kind of sound treatement should I place against the wall next to the towers? I have no experience with room treatments. Thank you for the help. This is my first time having free reign on a true man room. Sure its small but hey its mine and I want it to be as great as possible.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
listen to jos, implement his words. i agree with all he said. you have a ton of improvements too be done there.

and i would not move the chairs to the back wall ! if you do, however, forgetabout 7.1.


to your original question. imhe the rear speakers don't do a ton of work. so you don't need high end speakers. parts express has some 6 1/2" 2 ways for $30 = may be junk, but get good reviews. or those behringer's would do it for sure.

and get that freakin bookshelf out of there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
 
bigbassdave

bigbassdave

Full Audioholic
Thanks I am going to take his advice. In fact I'll probably just go 5.1. The room is not functional yet I am working on it every weekend and hope to have it up and running in the next couple weeks. The bookshelf is being moved out this weekend. Any suggestions for cheap acoustic treatments around the towers? I know I have lots of improvements to do which is why I'm asking as I am setting everything up.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
get some of that OWENS CORNING 701 ( i think thats it ) insulation panels and make your own. or buy some GIK panels.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks I am going to take his advice. In fact I'll probably just go 5.1. The room is not functional yet I am working on it every weekend and hope to have it up and running in the next couple weeks. The bookshelf is being moved out this weekend. Any suggestions for cheap acoustic treatments around the towers? I know I have lots of improvements to do which is why I'm asking as I am setting everything up.
I pretty much repeat the same things over and over again, so if you read up in the acoustics/setup forum just for a bit, you'll be reading what I say all over again, if not elsewhere too (it's probably been a hundred times, honestly).

You need to get away from the back wall. If you insist on being against the back wall, this wall is now the first wall that must be treated, and with thick broadband absorption. Typically, you want at least several feet away as a bare minimum, if possible. Ideally, the starting point is 38% of room length to ears, doesn't matter from front or back wall. This is for best avoidance of axial modes. This number may drop down to as low as about 33% with the inclusion of nonaxial modes.

I like to describe the need for treatments increasing when either you or the speaker is closer to a boundary (except for those speakers that are designed to be right against the wall, without BSC). So since your towers are so close to both side and front boundaries, those indeed would be a good place to treat. Remember, you want thickness/mass in absorbing lower frequencies. 1" of the typical stuff will do nary a thing for the lower midrange.

Treatments are not cheap unless you build them, that's just how it goes. Basically, what just-some-guy said.
 
bigbassdave

bigbassdave

Full Audioholic
Thank you, the speakers will be moved as far as possible away from the back wall and I will look into the treatments.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Thank you, the speakers will be moved as far as possible away from the back wall and I will look into the treatments.
The speakers are to be moved away from the front wall.

It is you that must move away from the back wall. The actual seating, so that your ears are about 38% the room length from this back wall.

Many would say of the entire setup with audio, nothing is more important than where the listener sits.

If you do follow my advice with getting away from the back wall, then there will be an even greater need for more toe-in from the front speakers. This takes experimentation, but the suggestion I have read is to fire the right speaker at your left ear, and the left speaker at your right ear. That is significant toe-in. Tweak from there.

When speakers are given proper toe in and space from boundaries, the imaging usually improves big time. As for getting away from the front wall, google "SBIR" and you'll probably see a b pape article as your first hit. He's a member here and works for GIK if you need any free advice.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
but the suggestion I have read is to fire the right speaker at your left ear, and the left speaker at your right ear. That is significant toe-in. Tweak from there.
that is a rule i follow, pretty much. i point each front speaker directly at my mug.
i do this, not so much for me, sitting in the "sweet spot". as toe in, imo, is not as critical for the sweet spot(but still should be toed in to some degree).
i do it for the listeners to the sides of me. in my experience, if there is no toe in, then the listener on the left gets more left speaker sound, and less right speaker sound. and the right listener gets more right speaker sound and less left speaker sound. when toeing in, those listeners get less close speaker sound, and more far speaker sound.

not only that. but when the speakers are close to a wall, toeing causes less deflection off of the wall.

this is my story, and i am sticking too it :D
 
bigbassdave

bigbassdave

Full Audioholic
The speakers are to be moved away from the front wall.

It is you that must move away from the back wall. The actual seating, so that your ears are about 38% the room length from this back wall.

Many would say of the entire setup with audio, nothing is more important than where the listener sits.

If you do follow my advice with getting away from the back wall, then there will be an even greater need for more toe-in from the front speakers. This takes experimentation, but the suggestion I have read is to fire the right speaker at your left ear, and the left speaker at your right ear. That is significant toe-in. Tweak from there.


When speakers are given proper toe in and space from boundaries, the imaging usually improves big time. As for getting away from the front wall, google "SBIR" and you'll probably see a b pape article as your first hit. He's a member here and works for GIK if you need any free advice.
Thanks I follow you. When I typed "back" I meant front. Its tough working at a call center, sending emails, talking with customers, and chatting on the forums at the same time but I suppose someone has to do it. I'm going to take some measurements tonight and get to work tomorrow. I'll post pics when I'm closer to being done. This has been great advice and it is appreciated.
 
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